I think this loss is great news (hear me out)

BradyFTW! said:

Yes, I was an adult and I've seen every game since Belichick got here. Sounds like you have an incredibly arbitrary definition of playmaker.

Click to expand...

Maybe you're right. Maybe I do. Hell im jaded. Seen the worst of times, the best of times, and everything in between. I just think we've been stuck in that "in between" to "below average" area since '07.

It's been a long time since i've looked at this defense and expected guys to come up with true momentum killing, game changing, big plays for us. These days when it happens im plesently surprised, but it's NOTHING like the feeling I had watching those defenses in the early aughts. You could watch those teams with the confidence that someone was gonna step up and make something big happen every time they took the field.

Mogamedogz said:

It's been a long time since i've looked at this defense and expected guys to come up with true momentum killing, game changing, big plays for us. These days when it happens im plesently surprised, but it's NOTHING like the feeling I had watching those defenses in the early aughts. You could watch those teams with the confidence that someone was gonna step up and make something big happen every time they took the field.

Click to expand...

It's a different game. If Revis and, soon, Browner could hold and bump and grind like Law did we'd be making plays amd stops with these guys too.

BelichickFan said:

It's a different game. If Revis and, soon, Browner could hold and bump and grind like Law did we'd be making plays amd stops with these guys too.

Click to expand...

Agreed. Shieeet man I agree a MILLION %... but Bill knows it's a different game, and he's had plenty of time now to adjust to it. There are lots of guys making big plays across the league within the current rule set.

FWIW, I still think Revis is gonna have a great year. He's a stud. He was my draft day Binky the year the NYRats jumped up and took him. I was PISSED.

That said, I don't think Browner is a very good player considering the way the games are being called and his style of play. I was pretty disappointed when they signed him actually. Pretty sure I took some heat on here over my dislike of the signing, but time will tell. I hope he makes me sound more foolish than some of the homers think I sound right now. lol

Brady6 said:

I totally agree the 3-4 does not work for us. Last season we attempted to use a 3-4 after we traded for Sopoaga and we had similar struggles against the run especially. We moved back to the 4-3 over/under and things straightened out. They had Ninkovich and Jones on the same side today and that just does not make sense to me.

Click to expand...

Bill wants to run 3-4 to get his best talent on the field. He also prefers the 3-4 but hasn't had the talent to run it due to very poor drafting. The reason players like Collins,Dobson,Kenbrell and Easley are rushed to play Is because of the very poor drafting has led to needs st many positions. I wanted Hightower to bulk and play DT or 3-4 DE because he is a bust at LB and doesn't have explosion to play 3-4 olb rush LB or 4-3 DE. 4-5 Lbs drafted after high tower in his draft are outplaying him by miles. Garappollo in round 2??!! Yeah if Brady gets injured QB would really he why the team sucks. Need another QB to carry the team. Not likely!! Why not give your QB more talent to work with.

All this B$ there is no listed starters because Bills thinking is so far above everybody else's. He has so many formations for each offense that his starters depend on the offense. B$!! If you have talented established starters, they can start in different formations. The 15 or so busts in rounds 1-3 in last 7 drafts are catching up and that's not including the busts in 2005-2007. Putting heat on QBs is a prime key position and Bill practically ignored it other than couple head scratching busts like Cunningham. He finds a decent edge rusher and plays him at DT because he hadn't drafted a half impact DT in last 9 drafts. Come on, Chandler is 6'5 265 he doesn't belong at DT. Easley has upside but undersized coming off 2 acl injuries in college doesn't belong going in round one. Brady is 37, asking him to compensate for a poor online and a slot WR as his #One may be asking to much. Bill thinks he can find another QB that can do that let him try. Oh he already did, drafting Garappollo in Round2 when he had holes at the oline, safety,pass rush,WR was brilliant.

Nobody wanted Vollmer and Edelman in free agency for a reason. Vollmer injuries have caught up to his talent and Edelman is a slot and product of Brady and the system. I'm happy they resigned Edelman because Amendola continues to look Horrible but they could have got Edelman cheaper. Then Loser Lafell was signed as a cheap bargain because they didn't want to pay more than 3 million or trade a high draft pick for an established WR. All this all in talk but what happens when you play it cheap. If you go 8-9 drafts without drafting more than 1-2 impact players and refuse to make any free agent splashes or only willing to give up a round 4-7 draft pick in a trade for a player then where are the impact players on your team?! I hope Revis has another all pro 2 seasons but this long term contract talk is nuts. No Cornerback is a shutdown beast at 30-35 like they were at 24-28.

I have hopes for Easley,Collins,Dobson,Kenbrell,Ryan, Harmon,Fleming but these guys are rushed due to MULTIPLE BUSTS IN LAST 8-9 DRAFTS WITH ONLY 1-2 ESTABLISHED IMPACT PLAYERS, REFUSAL TO SIGN ANY IMPACT TALENT IN FREE AGENCY AND. REFUSAL TO TRADE ANY HIGHER THAN A ROUND4 pick for a player.
They say impact free agent signings are the cost of poor drafting, well lots of poor drafting but where are the splash free agent signings to compensate. A couple big free agent signings would give our young players time to get good. But all they sign with big names are old players

They should have payed the extra $$ and signed DRC who has great height athleticism and blazing speed and only 27. Browner I only like at SS. His weakness was speed and now he is 30. Again patriots play it cheap. Melton,DRC, Veldheer, Browns Center,and Bennett are not that much more expensive but are impact players In their prime. Or even Randy Starks. Bit Bill and Kraft only sign players under $4mil a year except Amendola who no other team would have played him half of what Bill played him. Brilliant

Mogamedogz said:

Agreed. Shieeet man I agree a MILLION %... but Bill knows it's a different game, and he's had plenty of time now to adjust to it. There are lots of guys making big plays across the league within the current rule set.

FWIW, I still think Revis is gonna have a great year. He's a stud. He was my draft day Binky the year the NYRats jumped up and took him. I was PISSED.

That said, I don't think Browner is a very good player considering the way the games are being called and his style of play. I was pretty disappointed when they signed him actually. Pretty sure I took some heat on here over my dislike of the signing, but time will tell. I hope he makes me sound more foolish than some of the homers think I sound right now. lol

Click to expand...

They're running the 3-4 because their defensive tackles are a gigantic steaming pile of dog sh*t but they're pretty damn good at linebacker. There is only one thing that can save the defensive line situation this season and that's a breakout year from a rookie coming off of an ACL tear.

Everybody wants to talk negative, there's the negative side. Miami heat had nothing to do with it from our cold weather team people say. I do however think they play it to conservative in free agency and trading up for talent. Or trading picks for Established players. Their 3mil per player in fa and round4 budget when trading for players is conservative. They should have traded up in 2011. And I do think Hightower is a bust. To slow for LB or Rush LB. Best to bulk up and play penetrating DT or 3-4 DE. Other than that give our year2 players and rookies a shot. Guys like Logan Ryan, Collins,Harmon,Dobson and Kenbrell as well as Cannon and Fleming at guard. Easley should have his bulk back by playoffs. However Bill establish our starters and play the best players in their best position. Chandler is a lanky edge rusher not a DT. Fleming is a guard not a project tackle. Dump Vellano and loser Lafell and get Dobson/Kenbrell Vereen more involved with Edelman in the slot and Tim Wright as TE2. Let's make a significant trade for a player who is good at RT and guard even if it costs us a #2 and both our #4 draft picks. Brady and weapons need time to get open and throw and we are in the Superbowl. Bill FORGET THE PLAYERS YOU THINK YOU CAN GET WITH THOSE PICKS AND GET A STANDOUT OLINEMAN THAT GETS OLINE BETTER AND GETS THE TEAM TO THE SUPERBOWL!

I just saw too much bad to think that this was anything other than a very poorly played game (if that makes any sense). While I definitely think some things went wrong and need to be addressed immediately I don't think this team just went off a cliff over the span of one offseason. I think Gronk definitely has to knock the rust off, hopefully Brady's poor play was just a combination of timing and the calf injury, and that the offensive and defensive line issues are just attributed to the heat and rotating. Once Gronk gets close to 100% that should help immensely to open up the run, which then opens up the play action and underneath passing game. Like I said earlier I hope that Bill saw enough of the line to decide on which 5 to run with.

PatFanCraig said:

Bill wants to run 3-4 to get his best talent on the field. He also prefers the 3-4 but hasn't had the talent to run it due to very poor drafting. The reason players like Collins,Dobson,Kenbrell and Easley are rushed to play Is because of the very poor drafting has led to needs st many positions. I wanted Hightower to bulk and play DT or 3-4 DE because he is a bust at LB and doesn't have explosion to play 3-4 olb rush LB or 4-3 DE. 4-5 Lbs drafted after high tower in his draft are outplaying him by miles. Garappollo in round 2??!! Yeah if Brady gets injured QB would really he why the team sucks. Need another QB to carry the team. Not likely!! Why not give your QB more talent to work with.

All this B$ there is no listed starters because Bills thinking is so far above everybody else's. He has so many formations for each offense that his starters depend on the offense. B$!! If you have talented established starters, they can start in different formations. The 15 or so busts in rounds 1-3 in last 7 drafts are catching up and that's not including the busts in 2005-2007. Putting heat on QBs is a prime key position and Bill practically ignored it other than couple head scratching busts like Cunningham. He finds a decent edge rusher and plays him at DT because he hadn't drafted a half impact DT in last 9 drafts. Come on, Chandler is 6'5 265 he doesn't belong at DT. Easley has upside but undersized coming off 2 acl injuries in college doesn't belong going in round one. Brady is 37, asking him to compensate for a poor online and a slot WR as his #One may be asking to much. Bill thinks he can find another QB that can do that let him try. Oh he already did, drafting Garappollo in Round2 when he had holes at the oline, safety,pass rush,WR was brilliant.

Nobody wanted Vollmer and Edelman in free agency for a reason. Vollmer injuries have caught up to his talent and Edelman is a slot and product of Brady and the system. I'm happy they resigned Edelman because Amendola continues to look Horrible but they could have got Edelman cheaper. Then Loser Lafell was signed as a cheap bargain because they didn't want to pay more than 3 million or trade a high draft pick for an established WR. All this all in talk but what happens when you play it cheap. If you go 8-9 drafts without drafting more than 1-2 impact players and refuse to make any free agent splashes or only willing to give up a round 4-7 draft pick in a trade for a player then where are the impact players on your team?! I hope Revis has another all pro 2 seasons but this long term contract talk is nuts. No Cornerback is a shutdown beast at 30-35 like they were at 24-28.

I have hopes for Easley,Collins,Dobson,Kenbrell,Ryan, Harmon,Fleming but these guys are rushed due to MULTIPLE BUSTS IN LAST 8-9 DRAFTS WITH ONLY 1-2 ESTABLISHED IMPACT PLAYERS, REFUSAL TO SIGN ANY IMPACT TALENT IN FREE AGENCY AND. REFUSAL TO TRADE ANY HIGHER THAN A ROUND4 pick for a player.
They say impact free agent signings are the cost of poor drafting, well lots of poor drafting but where are the splash free agent signings to compensate. A couple big free agent signings would give our young players time to get good. But all they sign with big names are old players

Click to expand...

Craig realistically speaking the players weigh what they weigh right now and play the positions they play. I will not even bother getting into whether or not I agree with you on where the players fit best because heading into week 2 of the season it does not matter. The type of conversion projects you are referring to are something that if they ever took place would have to happen during the offseason.

jays52 said:

They're running the 3-4 because their defensive tackles are a gigantic steaming pile of dog sh*t but they're pretty damn good at linebacker. There is only one thing that can save the defensive line situation this season and that's a breakout year from a rookie coming off of an ACL tear.

Click to expand...

Could you please clarify this for me please, Jay?

Which DTs exactly are a "gigantic steaming pile of dog sh*t"?

- HOFer Wilfork, coming off a torn Achilles
- Rookie Easley playing his 1st game after being inactive - the same guy who you said is the "one thing that can save the defensive line situation"
- Chris Jones, who was inactive
- Joe Vellano, who I agree is a gigantic "steaming pile of dog sh*t" at DT, but equally so at 3-4 DE, where he played most of the game

That leaves Sealver Siliga. Is that to whom you are referring?

I respect your opinion as much as anyone on this board, but I have a hard time believing that our 4-3 DTs are worse than Vellano and Jones were as 3-4 DEs.

NG Pats Fan said:

" We also need to figure out the defense quickly or Adrian Peterson will destroy us."

A Peterson? What about C Patterson? Cordarelle Patterson was one of my favorite players coming out of college. I'll say it again, he is the most dangerous player in the NFL with the ball in his hands. He can return kicks for Tds, catch balls for tds, or break long end a rounds for Tds(Like today 3 rush for 102 yards, 67 yard Td).

Click to expand...

That touchdown wasn't an end around, they just lined him up in an I-formation and threw him a toss. He did the rest. That kid is fast and big, and very hard to tackle---he probably broke 3 or 4 on that long touchdown alone.

I guess Hightower didn't get the memo that he's too slow to rush the QB. I'm pretty sure he hit Tannehill more than the rest of the defense combined yesterday.

mayoclinic said:

Could you please clarify this for me please, Jay?

Which DTs exactly are a "gigantic steaming pile of dog sh*t"?

- HOFer Wilfork, coming off a torn Achilles
- Rookie Easley playing his 1st game after being inactive - the same guy who you said is the "one thing that can save the defensive line situation"
- Chris Jones, who was inactive
- Joe Vellano, who I agree is a gigantic "steaming pile of dog sh*t" at DT, but equally so at 3-4 DE, where he played most of the game

That leaves Sealver Siliga. Is that to whom you are referring?

I respect your opinion as much as anyone on this board, but I have a hard time believing that our 4-3 DTs are worse than Vellano and Jones were as 3-4 DEs.

Click to expand...

Yeah....regarding that. I was a little drunk and a lot of grumpy on that one. Please completely disregard

jays52 said:

They're running the 3-4 because their defensive tackles are a gigantic steaming pile of dog sh*t but they're pretty damn good at linebacker. There is only one thing that can save the defensive line situation this season and that's a breakout year from a rookie coming off of an ACL tear.

Click to expand...

The New England Patriots do not have the proper 5-technique defensive lineman on the roster to run the 3-4 defense.

They did a horrible job of filling the gaps. That game plan was just horrendous as well as the tackling. Total team and coaching meltdown.

I have no doubt they can do a better job next game. They just a good week of practice and a better effort and game plan. You don't usually see that bad of adjustments in the 2nd half from this team. Ehh...and this is just the defense. Haven't even started on that offense.

Was Vereen covered that well in the 2nd half where he couldn't break free to neutralize the blitz?

Sciz said:

I guess Hightower didn't get the memo that he's too slow to rush the QB. I'm pretty sure he hit Tannehill more than the rest of the defense combined yesterday.

Click to expand...

He appears much faster running towards the QB than running away from him.

jays52 said:

They're running the 3-4 because their defensive tackles are a gigantic steaming pile of dog sh*t but they're pretty damn good at linebacker. There is only one thing that can save the defensive line situation this season and that's a breakout year from a rookie coming off of an ACL tear.

Click to expand...

Vellano - useless
Siliga - severely overrated

ATippett56 said:

Vellano - useless
Siliga - severely overrated

Click to expand...

Yeah, let's use one game where everybody sucked to call the guy in a club overrated