PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

My Blueprint for the Defense


For the Pats, I think it all comes down to stopping the run and getting pressure on the opposing QB. If our defense can do that, then we are gold.
 
For the Pats, I think it all comes down to stopping the run and getting pressure on the opposing QB. If our defense can do that, then we are gold.
Aaaaand the defense did neither of those things today. I'm losing confidence the defense will ever be good again under Belichick. The fact that he thinks Vellano is anything approaching a starting caliber player and playing Jones at 3-4DE is anything close to a good idea scares the hell out of me.
 
Last edited:
Aaaaand the defense did neither of those things today. I'm losing confidence the defense will ever be good again under Belichick. The fact that he thinks Vellano is anything approaching a starting caliber player and playing Jones at 3-4DE is anything close to a good idea scares me the hell out of me.

This wasn't my "blueprint" at all:

- Play a 3-4 with inadequate ends
- Take Ninkovich out of the game in sub formations
- No effective pass rush
- Not play aggressive press-man coverage
- Abysmal run defense and tackling fundamentals
- General lack of aggressiveness and physicality

That's a recipe that pretty much guarantees failure in today's NFL.
 
For the Pats, I think it all comes down to stopping the run and getting pressure on the opposing QB.

If our defense can do that, then we are gold.

Very insightful!! I tend to go with the "Try to score more Points than the other team." approach, but you've given me a lot to think about. Thanks!! :D
 
- Not play aggressive press-man coverage

Ugh this! Only seen the game once but am I right in remembering lots of off-man and zone coverage?

You have the best press-man corner in the league and you play off coverage & zone with him?! It's a waste of cap space giving him that cash to not use him properly.
 
- Take Ninkovich out of the game in sub formations
That's the only thing they did I agreed with. He was mediocre when he was in the game yesterday.
 
Easy, Lads.

Mad Bill makes plenty of Mistakes ~ he is mortal, after all ~ but one of the wisest Things he does is to treat September as an Extension of Camp. He's still evaluating the Lads, you see.

September Games are best looked upon by us not as Gauges but as Entertainment.
 
Last edited:
Easy, Lads.

Mad Bill makes plenty of Mistakes ~ he is mortal, after all ~ but one of the wisest Things he does is to treat September as an Extension of Camp. He's still evaluating the Lads, you see.

September Games are best looked upon by us not as Gauges but as Entertainment.

No panicking on my part. But there are identifiable problems that need to be addressed, many of which were discussed in the OP.

I mentioned the "extension of preseason" idea in another thread on the main board. Zuri Berry had an uncharacteristically insightful comment on this yesterday, though he was focusing on the OL musical chairs.

Unfortunately the most entertaining part of yesterday's game was watching the implosion on the game day thread.
 
This wasn't my "blueprint" at all:

- Play a 3-4 with inadequate ends
- Take Ninkovich out of the game in sub formations
- No effective pass rush
- Not play aggressive press-man coverage
- Abysmal run defense and tackling fundamentals
- General lack of aggressiveness and physicality

That's a recipe that pretty much guarantees failure in today's NFL.

A nice read from Richard Hill:

I'm not sure how they did it, but the Patriotscoaching staff put together the worst possible mix of their starting defensive players. Apart from nose tackle Vince Wilfork, the Patriots decided to play a full unit of 4-3 players and insert them into a 3-4 front.

No one has any idea why and it's unlikely Bill Belichick will disclose the reason at a later date.


Let's start with the basic fact of the 3-4: either the defensive line or the linebackers will have to two-gap.

That's just how the defense functions if either of the linebackers drop into coverage. There are six gaps with the basic five man offensive line, seven gaps if there's a tight end (in between each player and then to the outside of the last person on the line). With three defensive linemen and four linebackers, either all seven will have to commit to maintain a single-gap assignment, or someone in the front seven will have to two gap.

Vince Wilfork can two gap, even if he didn't play his best. He plays the nose and he covers both A gaps (to either side of the center). Chandler Jones and Joe Vellano, on the other hand, cannot two gap.

Jones is 265 pounds and asking him to hold his ground against an offensive tackle and guard (assuming a two-gapping principle) is just asinine. In fact, it makes running the ball even easier for the Dolphins because the tackle and guard can seal Jones out of the play, while the Guard can break off into the second level to take on a linebacker; it's an easy five yards.

Let's also ignore that the Patriots are taking their most dangerous pass rusher and asking him to have multiple-gap responsibility.

Vellano is 300 pounds, but he's the new edition of Kyle Love at 6'1. He doesn't have the length to maintain multiple gaps and he was overwhelmed even in single protection.

With both Jones and Vellano unable to guard multiple gaps, it allowed the Dolphins to run at will, which they did.

But let's say that the Patriots didn't ask the defensive linemen to cover multiple gaps. Let's assume the defensive line was operating under single-gap ideas, and that it was the linebackers responsibility to cover two gaps. They have the speed, so they should be able to, right?

The issue comes with their strength. There's no Brandon Spikes on the roster, the only linebacker capable of standing up an offensive lineman. Even if Jamie Collins or Jerod Mayo were able to get in the right position to stop the running back, they were met head-on with an offensive lineman, who had no trouble sealing them out of the play.

By assigning the linebackers multiple gaps, they have to approach the rushing lanes from an angle, instead of directly, allowing blockers to seal the pathway.

There's no question that the best solution for this defense is to go back to the 4-3 front. The coaches fielded a defensive line too small to sustain a 3-4 front. They have linebackers too weak to stand-up offensive linemen.

Jones and Vellano were put in terrible situations and their production showed. They were the least effective players on defense, and that is not their fault; the blame lies with the coaches.

When the Patriots face the Vikings and Adrian Peterson, they cannot afford to give the same running lanes that they gave Knowshon Moreno and the Dolphins. They need to field a defensive line of Chandler Jones, Vince Wilfork, Sealver Siliga, and Rob Ninkovich. They need to operate the way the roster intended.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2014/9/8/6121041/the-patriots-didnt-have-3-4-personnel-but-tried-anyways
 
Another take on the 3-4, from Erik Frentz:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2014/09/bad_start_for_patriots_new-look_3-4_defense.html

Poor scheme, poor execution, poor tackling, poor effort.

I came to this thread for a little rant and find these articles posted. Pretty much says it all.

If you would of told me after the draft and free agency that this team was going to roll with a 34 with this compilation of players I would of laughed at you.

I agree with the mantra of BB is extending his camp, but to come out and play in the formations they did was almost laughable. Especially from a defensive genius.

I honestly thought the pieces were in place to run something a little more aggressive and make use of the personnel they have. And yes, I don't think the secondary and LBs took advantage of those first 5 yards of scrimmage.

It will all get sorted out. We knew the offensive line could possibly be a work in progress and would need time. However I never expected the defense to struggle like it did in the 2nd half. It all came down to tackling and coaching and they failed in a big way. Unless I'm just overrating the talent which I don't think I am.

Meh, it's just week 1 but yeah, I was pretty disappointed with the coaching in this one. Was thinking it would be some type of 43. Not a 34 with those ends.
 
I came to this thread for a little rant and find these articles posted. Pretty much says it all.

If you would of told me after the draft and free agency that this team was going to roll with a 34 with this compilation of players I would of laughed at you.

I agree with the mantra of BB is extending his camp, but to come out and play in the formations they did was almost laughable. Especially from a defensive genius.

I honestly thought the pieces were in place to run something a little more aggressive and make use of the personnel they have. And yes, I don't think the secondary and LBs took advantage of those first 5 yards of scrimmage.

It will all get sorted out. We knew the offensive line could possibly be a work in progress and would need time. However I never expected the defense to struggle like it did in the 2nd half. It all came down to tackling and coaching and they failed in a big way. Unless I'm just overrating the talent which I don't think I am.

Meh, it's just week 1 but yeah, I was pretty disappointed with the coaching in this one. Was thinking it would be some type of 43. Not a 34 with those ends.

All through training camp people commented on the main board on the use of the 3-4, and I said "it ain't happening", "not with that personnel", or words to that effect. My assumption was that BB would run a multiple front hybrid defense, but that a 4 man front would be quite common. I was shocked that he actually tried to run a predominant 3-4 with the personnel that he did. Recipe for disaster, and it takes away many of the strengths of the defense.

I think that in the modern pass-oriented NFL you have to paradoxically be more aggressive than ever on defense. IIRC, the Seahawks were the most penalized team in the NFL last year. It doesn't matter. You have to take it to the opposing offense aggressively, dictate things, and throw them off their rhythm. Playing a soft, reactive defense just doesn't work.

We have the horses to be a very good defense, especially if Easley progresses. But it will take some commitment and philosophical change from the coaching staff, which was one of the things that I highlighted back in February in the OP:

mayoclinic said:
1. Need a change of attitude and approach.

The Pats' D comes from the top, and it's just not adequate in today's NFL. Too passive, too soft. The defense needs to get much more physical and play with an attitude and with controlled rage. Aqib Talib brought some much-needed swagger to a demoralized secondary, and that kind of attitude is needed on all 3 levels.

I have serious questions that Matt Patricia executing BB's strategy is going to get us to the next level. I like bringing in some fresh blood (Brandon Daly is by all accounts very intense, and that is needed). I wish we had brought in someone like from the outside like Ray Horton or Jim Schwartz who could provide a strong presence on defense that we haven't had since Romeo left.

I got lambasted by a number of people for that comment, and there were many who felt that we didn't need a significant philosophical change, just an evolution of personnel. I humbly disagree. We can have Revis, Jones, Wilfork, Collins, Mayo and Easley on the field and still have a crappy defense if we don't use the players properly, and allow opposing offenses to dictate to us.
 
Yeah Mayo. It's pretty frustrating. I keep telling myself it's just one game but my fear is heightened that they even tried to run what they did in the first place. It made absolutely no sense and to bring it out as your base in the very first game is alarming.

My hope is more that they thought the 34 was a good matchup against this particular team, rather then they are trying to run it full time. If the latter is the case, they went about free agency and the draft all wrong.

I'm usually not the guy that that goes out questioning the all mighty decisions by the Patriots because their record speaks volumes of their success and you usually end up looking the fool. It's just 1 bad game and they've had them over the years so history dictates they will be better.

A little bit of a head scratcher for sure and hopefully we see some form of a defense that utilizes the talents on this defense sooner rather than later. I will check back with a vengeance if the Pats are still playing a 34 going into Minnesota.
 
Yeah Mayo. It's pretty frustrating. I keep telling myself it's just one game but my fear is heightened that they even tried to run what they did in the first place. It made absolutely no sense and to bring it out as your base in the very first game is alarming.

My hope is more that they thought the 34 was a good matchup against this particular team, rather then they are trying to run it full time. If the latter is the case, they went about free agency and the draft all wrong.

I'm usually not the guy that that goes out questioning the all mighty decisions by the Patriots because their record speaks volumes of their success and you usually end up looking the fool. It's just 1 bad game and they've had them over the years so history dictates they will be better.

A little bit of a head scratcher for sure and hopefully we see some form of a defense that utilizes the talents on this defense sooner rather than later. I will check back with a vengeance if the Pats are still playing a 34 going into Minnesota.

FWIW, Tedy Bruschi had a couple of interesting comments in his chat today:

A part of me thinks they tried to adjust too much. Along the defensive front, it seemed like they were using multiple fronts. It may be a case where they don't have the players to be that flexible. Vince Wilfork is absolutely that player. To have inexperienced players in there like Vellano, Easley and to a lesser degree Siliga, sometimes you want to keep it simple with your defensive fronts.

If you can't stop the run, you'll almost never have an opportunity to get to the quarterback.

At times it was hard to figure out what the Patriots' run defense was doing. Their front was changing on a regular basis. I saw some odd fronts, I saw some even fronts. And certain techniques can't be deciphered if you're getting blown off the ball. So not being able to stop the inside runs is a major problem. Inside runs are the easiest way to inflict damage on a defense. Not only that, it's mentally demoralizing.

Chandler Jones is not your traditional 5-technique. I see Jones as more of a defensive end in a 4-3, or possibly playing outside linebacker in a 3-4.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/boston/chat/_/id/51096
 
I'm not going to involve myself in the post-Mortimer of this game - I tend to agree with Grid's view and think we should see where the defense is in October before becoming overly concerned but I will say this.mI really liked Hightower as an OLB. He's not going to put up a huge number of sacks but, and I've thought this right from his 'Bama days, he has one he'll of a bull rush. Very powerful rusher.
 
I tend to agree with Grid's view and think we should see where the defense is in October before becoming overly concerned.

I completely agree with that. My only point is that continuing to play the scheme they did yesterday (specifically an undersized 3 man front and off coverage) is unlikely to work terribly effectively, even with player improvements.
 
I'm curious. What is the difference between a 5-2 and a one gapping 3-4? Your example above looks not dissimilar to the way they've been lining up in pre-season.


This from Reiss:

There's no doubt that Minnesota will look to test the Patriots' run defense, and we wouldn't be surprised if Bill Belichick makes a few changes to prepare for the challenge. Specifically, putting together a base defense that is a bit more stout than what the team opened with in Miami would make some sense.

That could mean a combination of Vince Wilfork and Sealver Siliga on the inside, and the possible promotion of a strong, physical player such as Kelcy Quarles from the practice squad to add more beef to the roster. A fundamentally sound player like Rob Ninkovich could also be utilized more in the plan than he was against Miami (35 of 74 snaps).

This should be a get-back-to-the-fundamentals type of week for the Patriots, focusing on better fits in the run game and gap integrity.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4767718/fix-it-shop-patriots-run-defense

I think there's a big difference between running a 3-4 like we did yesterday with Vellano and Chandler Jones at ends, and running a 5-2 with Ninkovich and Jones as the ends and Wilfork flanked by 2 DTs. In the latter case you have 5 guys with their hands on the ground, and a defensive front that can generate interior pressure but which is very hard to run against. In the former case, particularly if one of the OLB's drops into coverage, you have an undersized front which doesn't have the length, bulk or strength to control the gaps, as Richard Hill points out.

Against Minnesota and Adrian Peterson I would love to see Kelcy Quarles promoted and a 5-2 / 4-3 under hybrid with Ninkovich/Hightower as LDE in a 5-2/SAM in a 4-3 under, Mayo and Collins as the 2 LBs, and Wilfork/Quarles-Siliga/Wilfork-Easley-Jones rounding out the defensive line.
 
I completely agree with that. My only point is that continuing to play the scheme they did yesterday (specifically an undersized 3 man front and off coverage) is unlikely to work terribly effectively, even with player improvements.

I agree. It was the worst possible combination of formation and available talent. Which makes me think there was more to it than what we saw in one game.
 
This from Reiss:



http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4767718/fix-it-shop-patriots-run-defense

I think there's a big difference between running a 3-4 like we did yesterday with Vellano and Chandler Jones at ends, and running a 5-2 with Ninkovich and Jones as the ends and Wilfork flanked by 2 DTs. In the latter case you have 5 guys with their hands on the ground, and a defensive front that can generate interior pressure but which is very hard to run against. In the former case, particularly if one of the OLB's drops into coverage, you have an undersized front which doesn't have the length, bulk or strength to control the gaps, as Richard Hill points out.

Against Minnesota and Adrian Peterson I would love to see Kelcy Quarles promoted and a 5-2 / 4-3 under hybrid with Ninkovich/Hightower as LDE in a 5-2/SAM in a 4-3 under, Mayo and Collins as the 2 LBs, and Wilfork-Siliga-Easley-Jones (and Kelcy Quarles possibly getting promoted and seeing some playing time).

I like the idea of a 2-5, at least in limited reps. Put Wilfork and Siliga on the line two gapping and then have Ch. jones, Mayo, Nink, Hightower and Collins all at LB. That way, the pressure could come from anywhere, particularly as Hightower, Mayo and Collins are all good blitzing linebackers. Of course that takes Easley off the field which is why It can't be used as a full time scheme.
 
I like the idea of a 2-5, at least in limited reps. Put Wilfork and Siliga on the line two gapping and then have Ch. jones, Mayo, Nink, Hightower and Collins all at LB. That way, the pressure could come from anywhere, particularly as Hightower, Mayo and Collins are all good blitzing linebackers. Of course that takes Easley off the field which is why It can't be used as a full time scheme.

In general I'm a big fan of semi-ameboid fronts, and would be happy with a 2-5 or 2-4-5. My only 2 concerns are (1) getting Easley on the field, as you mention, and (2) I don't think Minnesota is the team that I would try this out against.

It's already been mentioned early in this thread, but as that was 6 months ago, a reference to Grid's classic "Yankee 2-4-5" discussion is worth including:

http://www.fanaticalyankee.com/assorted-bits-of-random-blasphemy/category/amorphous d2481d46c32
 


Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Back
Top