The agitated Post-Game thread

Hoping we see the switch to 4-3, stork at center and Dobson being a starter on offense. Think this would be 3 major improvements from today

jsull87 said:

All initial reactions asside. We played terribly all over the field today.

But this is a very good point. Why when you seemingly finally have the personnel to run a strong 4-3 defense do you switch up into a 3-4 where we suddenly have players out of possition. E.g Ninkovich @ OLB covering a RB out of the backfield for the 1st TD.

Wilfork IMO was the only front 7 player i saw today getting any consistant push. The rest flashed but even when they flashed (like collins did) we 50% of the time missed the tackle.

IMO this was a terrible performance. But what is more concerning was the style in which this D played all game. After digesting this a bit, I actually think this could have been worse as Tannehill missed Wallace who was behind Dennard for the early INT and on Ryan's forced fumble the Dolphins were marching down the field.

Anyway i'm beating a dead horse. We can't expect to play like that and be competative.

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Between the 2 or 3 wide open drops and the Tannehill underthrow to Wallace for the interception, the Dolphins should have had at least 2 more td's in that game.

This is the most depressing loss since the Drew and Lawyer beat-down on opening day in Buffalo about 10 years ago. We rebounded from that to win the SB that year, but I dunno about this year.

Brady6 said:

The defensive scheme is very easy to fix in my opinion. This is your depth chart:

LE-Rob Ninkovich-Michael Buchanan
3T DT-Dominque Easley-Chris Jones-Joe Vellano
1T NT-Vince Wilfork-Sealver Siliga
RE-Chandler Jones-Michael Buchnan-Zach Moore
SLB-Donta Hightower-Darius Fleming
MLB-Jerod Mayo-Donta Hightower-Chris White
WLB-Jamie Collins-Jerod Mayo-Chris White
LCB-Darrelle Revis-Logan Ryan-Malcolm Butler
RCB-Alfonzo Dennard-Logan Ryan-Kyle Arrington
SAF-Devin Mcourty-Kyle Arrington
SAF-Pat Chung-Tavon Wilson-Duron Harmon

That is how our defense aligns best, they need to stop toying with the 3-4 they do not have the players to do it. Chandler Jones is not JJ Watt, he has no business at 34DE it is a waste of his talents.

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Agreed except I'm more for Revis following a receiver. Not playing to a side.

I also want to see Hightower more as our LE. He did some good things rushing today. The 3rd LB doesn't get too much playing time anyway.

On Revis: Some have said that Revis was bad tonight. But I disagree, he was good. He was right on Wallace on the TD, and batted the ball away. It was just a really, really unlucky play that in 999 out of a 1000 times is a defended pass. Now we got unlucky.

If someone can just go into Bills and Patricias office and switch the lables on the "Pats defensive playbook 2013" and "Pats defensive playbook 2014" folders and we would be good.

I'm just so afraid that Bill will be stubborn and keep with this scheme. I just don't see the logic. We have drafted typical, prototype 4-3 players and now all of a sudden he wants to run a 3-4. It just baffles me.

Re-watching the 2nd half. Miami's 2nd half performance against us was more dominant than Seattle's vs Green Bay. We did not have a single pass rusher win a one on one match up. We have very little talent at the skill positions. It really looks like the Miami DBs do not have to strain at all to cover our WRs - like varsity vs. JV. Watching both sides of the ball it's difficult to see where money has been spent on this team. It just seems like there's a dearth of talent at every level of both sides of the ball.

Marinlik said:

Agreed except I'm more for Revis following a receiver. Not playing to a side.

I also want to see Hightower more as our LE. He did some good things rushing today. The 3rd LB doesn't get too much playing time anyway.

On Revis: Some have said that Revis was bad tonight. But I disagree, he was good. He was right on Wallace on the TD, and batted the ball away. It was just a really, really unlucky play that in 999 out of a 1000 times is a defended pass. Now we got unlucky.

If someone can just go into Bills and Patricias office and switch the lables on the "Pats defensive playbook 2013" and "Pats defensive playbook 2014" folders and we would be good.

I'm just so afraid that Bill will be stubborn and keep with this scheme. I just don't see the logic. We have drafted typical, prototype 4-3 players and now all of a sudden he wants to run a 3-4. It just baffles me.

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The 3-4 defense should be completely scrapped.

ATippett56 said:

The 3-4 defense should be completely scrapped.

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Good luck with stubborn Belichick

Brady6 said:

If they wanted to run a 3-4 they would have to concede not having Hightower and Ninkovich on the field at the same time, but they cannot have it both ways. They would have to bounce Wilfork out LDT and use Siliga at the NT.

LOLB – Ninkovich/Hightower
LDT – Wilfork
NT – Siliga
RDE – Easley
ROLB – Jones
LILB – Mayo
RILB – Collins

I still think that is less than ideal but trying to run a 3-4 with Vellano and Jones as your DEs is laughable.

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Exactly. You can argue 3-4 vs 4-3 (i'd argue 4-3). But trying to stop the run with 3-4 ends of Vellano and Jones is not going to work and that's a fact.

It also hurts your pass rush effectively taking out your best outside rusher in Jones. Look i'll admit i am no expert like BB and Patricia are paid to be.

But it does not make sense to me as IMO we are playing multiple players out of possition where I think if we just lined up in 4-3 and played people head on using players where they naturally play their best I think we'd have better results.

Just my opinion.

Who would you rather have on the field?

- Kline or Devey
- Stork or Wendell
- Dobson or LaFell/Amendola (Pick 1)
- Fleming or C. White
- J. White or Bolden

A part of me feels like the biggest mistakes were made before the ball even kicked off.

iapatsfan said:

Re-watching the 2nd half. Miami's 2nd half performance against us was more dominant than Seattle's vs Green Bay. We did not have a single pass rusher win a one on one match up. We have very little talent at the skill positions. It really looks like the Miami DBs do not have to strain at all to cover our WRs - like varsity vs. JV. Watching both sides of the ball it's difficult to see where money has been spent on this team. It just seems like there's a dearth of talent at every level of both sides of the ball.

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It's one game, bro.

jsull87 said:

Exactly. You can argue 3-4 vs 4-3 (i'd argue 4-3). But trying to stop the run with 3-4 ends of Vellano and Jones is not going to work and that's a fact.

It also hurts your pass rush effectively taking out your best outside rusher in Jones. Look i'll admit i am no expert like BB and Patricia are paid to be.

But it does not make sense to me as IMO we are playing multiple players out of possition where I think if we just lined up in 4-3 and played people head on using players where they naturally play their best I think we'd have better results.

Just my opinion.

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Last season the traded for Sopoaga and tried the same thing they ran a 3-4 with:

LOLB- Ninkovich
LDT- Vellano
NT- Sopoaga
RDE- Chris Jones
ROLB- Chandler Jones
LILB- Spikes
RILB- Hightower

We got eaten up during that period allowed rushing yards of:

Jets – 177
Dolphins – 156
Steelers – 108
Panthers – 103
Denver – 280

After the Denver game we stopped the madness and moved back to a 4-3 over.

Any reason we we're rotating our CB2 in the second half?

Also, the WR merry go round needs to end.

Edelman WR1
Dobson WR2
Thompkins WR3

iapatsfan said:

Re-watching the 2nd half. Miami's 2nd half performance against us was more dominant than Seattle's vs Green Bay. We did not have a single pass rusher win a one on one match up. We have very little talent at the skill positions. It really looks like the Miami DBs do not have to strain at all to cover our WRs - like varsity vs. JV. Watching both sides of the ball it's difficult to see where money has been spent on this team. It just seems like there's a dearth of talent at every level of both sides of the ball.

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I've been saying it more and more over the past 5 years that the NFL is becoming less about scheme and more about a bunch of one on one matchups. Cameron Wake was flat out beating Vollmer at times and we've seen Wendell get dominated by anybody who seems to line up across from him. Meanwhile Chandler Jones couldn't beat his tackle, the 2nd half defense just seemed out of gas which isn't too surprising given how they haven't played a full game until today and the conditions were brutal.

In the skill position department, im disappointed that Amendola didn't make a peep today? I have to go back and watch but who was matched up with him today that shut him down? Although the penalty was bad, I smiled when Lafell knocked that dolphin defender out cold. Not for malicious purposes but thats the type of intensity and intimidation that Seattle and San Fran play with. He wasn't a factor today but with time I feel like he will be a big asset. Thompkins made some plays out there as did Vereen and JE. When Dobson is ready, I hope Lafell eventually moves to the slot where they can take advantage of his blocking and size more. Miami was deep into their LB depth today but nobody on the offense could take advantage of any mismatches.

What sucks is that this has the shaping of 2009 all over it. This will be BB's greatest challenge if they are to gel together and win. Trading Mankins has caused the players to wonder what exactly it means to be a patriot. No loyalty from the team whatsoever.

You just have to wonder why Belichick and Patricia think/thought this 3-4 alignment will/would work with this personnel.

KamikazeKnight said:

It's one game, bro.

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I don't know how that changes this team's talent level and overall lack of playmakers.

We desperately need Dobson to make that year 2 leap. He's bulked up, way more comfortable in the system, and played very solid in that 1 pre-season game. I'm sick of seeing Brady throw long balls to 5'11 slot WRs and 5'10 running backs. Dobson is by far our best option for the deep ball. Thompkins is not that great outside the numbers IMO. So hopefully Dobson can be a difference maker when he returns.

I just want them to pick 5 guys on the o-line and go with it. This shuffling around didn't work.

Here are some issues that I am concerned about:

Offensive line: Awful on every level imaginable. This offensive line could not stop a high school team from getting to him. Brady had no time and many times the guys getting to Brady were not ever being touched. Maybe Mankins was overrated but there is no way they would have been this bad if he was in. Brady is 37 years old and he is not going to make it to week 3 at this rate.

Offense: BB didn't do one single thing this off season to improve the offense. Its Gronk, Edelman and a little Thompkins and Amendola sprinkled in. So it is pretty much the same offense that struggled last year back for an encore. This team was outscored 33-0 in the second half and only had about three first downs.

D-Line: Just as bad as the offensive line. Every single first tackle would miss. Moreno ran for 134 yards and I bet 70-80 of those yards because of the inability of this team to tackle. Peterson is going to run for 200 yards next week.


I know it is just the first week and if it was just one glaring weakness I would not be that concerned. But right now it is the offensive line, the offense and the D-line all have major major holes and pats don't have the players on the roster to fix this.

pwes said:

They didn't win. The came in second to the team they were stealing cheers from.

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I said performed well enough to win, could have gone either way like our championships. Who cares bout stealing plays or cheers,I'm all for recording plays again if it what it takes to WIN. Its not how you play its whether you win the Superbowl! I want another championship even if we have to trade next yrs whole draft for a couple impact players in their prime for this year. Anyways I was just joking bout the cheerleading analogy. This team can regroup but its missing some talent to compete for championship, going to have to pull off a trade for an olineman at least. I think cannon will settle in at lg after couple games but Vollmer looks like injuries have taken his talent.

Brady6 said:

Who would you rather have on the field?

- Kline or Devey
- Stork or Wendell
- Dobson or LaFell/Amendola (Pick 1)
- Fleming or C. White
- J. White or Bolden

A part of me feels like the biggest mistakes were made before the ball even kicked off.

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playing a 3-4 with jones as the DE when there best pass rushing team is 4-3 with nink and jones at DE and chris jones and wilfork at DT. playing that bad zone/ bend but don't brake defense with a lead,


the OL they just need to pick a line up and stay with them for the whole season, DA needs to be used more. Lafell had 6 balls thrown his way with 0 rec IMO him and Dobson are pretty much the same player average route runners bad hands and not fast a nuff to be used the way josh is trying to use them as a deep threat