The agitated Post-Game thread

bostonia3333 said:

Chandler Jones is so overrated--he never gets a clutch sack. His stats each year look good on paper....He gets a 10+ sack season but people fail to realize that he gets like 4 of those sacks in a game when you are blowing out a crappy team like the jets or Bills.

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Agreed. Let's cut him. We have plenty of great pass rushers.

Armchair Quarterback said:

56 passes is absolutely ridiculous, especially in the Miami heat, no wonder the lines were toast.

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ctpatsfan77 said:

It's OK if you're making a high percentage of them, but when you're only completing them 1/2 the time, that's a couple dozen times the clock stops, increasing the likelihood of putting the D back on the field.

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A lot of throws were made at the end of the game which skewed the numbers even more but you are right about the excessive number of passes.

But the problem was that the run blocking seemed atrocious at first glance. The second drive of the game yielded good yardage with a number of creative plays which caught Miami off guard. But things got downhill from there despite Miami's 1st team linebackers going out of the game, their D-line was absolutely rock solid.

It's early days yet, but the worry is that the other D-lines in the division are potentially better and should represent the same problems. For me the season hangs on the ability of the O-line to come together and play as a unit.

The Patriots D-line was also manhandled but at least there seems to be talent to at every level (D-line, linebackers and the secondary) to work with. The first half lead was really built on their dominance but the TOP disparity in the second half was too much to overcome unsurprisingly in the heat. It was a shame that some of the few good plays in the second half by the D-line resulted in roughing penalties.

And for a little optimism, we lost in Miami last year as well and still made the playoffs.

iapatsfan said:

That is because they realized the 2013-2014 Tom Brady does not make you pay for blitzing.

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Seemed like most of the pressure came from four or five man rushes...nothing exotic, just a collapse on the offensive line.

The team isn't "bad", I mean were not the Raiders. We'll win double digit games and make the playoffs. But contenders? I don't see us stopping Denver at this rate. We couldn't lay a finger on Manning last year in the title game, and it looks like the same thing will be true this year.

Okay, it's been a couple of hours, I've had a drink, I've settled down.

An ugly performance by the Patriots, but lets look at it after taking a step back.

Wake ALWAYS kills us.

Moreno has wrecked us the last three times now.

I think a lot of us went into this game ignoring the fact that the dolphins play us hard EVERY time. And I think we learned something about them today.

1.) Tannenhill is not a QB that you are going to hit in the mouth and he is going to go sit on the bench and cry about it. Our Dline LIT HIM UP, most times late and he didn't get frazzled; I don't think any of us expected that.

2.) When Revis was on Wallace, he was as good as advertised (1 catch 22 yards). Revis should have shadowed him all over the field.

3.) Nobody appeared to get injured (Amendola/Vereen)


Looking around the NFL you are seeing a lot of teams and their fan bases getting a rude wake up call. This isn't the same NFL, parity is very real: NE, GB, KC, Chi, all playoff teams starting on a loss.

Imagine being a team of the cowgirls, rams, or bucs, all of whom are or did get thoroughly destroyed.

The Patriots have a lot of work to do, but its fixable.

Archeryaddict12 said:

Brady needs Dobson next week and the trenches need help. If we can fix those 2 issues we will be fine.

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Speaking of Dobson, what is the story? He seemed totally fine in his last preseason game.

Des Bryant, Demarius Thomas, Cordarelle Patterson passed on. And our guy Dobson, like Borges says, seems to be walking around in a boot every time he's seen.

woolster22 said:

Seemed like most of the pressure came from four or five man rushes...nothing exotic, just a collapse on the offensive line.

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In the second half, they were sending DBs and (backup) LBs regularly.

chasa, post: 3898146, member: 31671"]Okay, it's been a couple of hours, i've had a drink, i've settled down.

An ugly performance by the patriots, but lets look at it after taking a step back.

Wake ALWAYS kills us
Moreano, has wrecked us the last 3 times now.

I think a lot of us went into this game ignoring the fact that the dolphins play us hard EVERY time. And i think we learned something about them today.

1.) Tannenhill is not a QB that you are going to hit in the mouth and hes going to go sit on the bench and cry about it, Our Dline LIT HIM UP, most times late and he didn't get frazzled, I don't think any of us expected that.

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No they didn't. Most of the day he had all the time in the world.

2.) When revis was on wallace, he was as good as advertised(1 catch 22 yards) Revis should have shadowed him all over the field.

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So. The rest of the defense consists of JAGS.

3.)Nobody appeared to get injured(amendola/vereen)

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We could find somebody on the street to replace Amendola. I'm not joking.

Looking around the NFL you are seeing a lot of teams and their fanbases getting a rude wake up call that this isnt the same nfl, Parity is very real: NE, GB, KC, Chi, all playoff teams starting on a loss.

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Unless you're Seattle or Denver.

Imagine being a team of the cowgirls, rams, or bucs, all of whome are or did get throughly destroyed.

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Not sure what your point is here. So did we, and to a mediocre Miami team.

The_Riddler said:

Speaking of Dobson, what is the story? He seemed totally fine in his last preseason game.

Des Bryant, Demarius Thomas, Cordarelle Patterson passed on. And our guy Dobson, like Borges says, seems to be walking around in a boot every time he's seen.

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Just a healthy scratch for some reason. He made the trip and was warming up. He should be back next week is my guess and we need him. He is a valuable asset with his size and chemistry with Tom

A man named Brady said:

The team isn't "bad", I mean were not the raiders. We'll win double digit games and make the playoffs. But contenders? I don't see us stopping denver at this rate. We couldn't lay a finger on manning last year in the title game and it looks like the same thing will be true this year

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This team is bad and will not win double digit games. They just got pummeled by the worst team in their division.

rochrist said:

Ridley couldn't do anything, which made the Pats one dimensional which is a lot easier on the defense. So, no, he didn't help.

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What was he supposed to do with that line blocking for him? He had a big run called back because of some idiotic hold by Hooman.

Archeryaddict12 said:

Just a healthy scratch for some reason. He made the trip and was warming up. He should be back next week is my guess and we need him. He is a valuable asset with his size and chemistry with Tom

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That was a mistake by Belichick leaving him inactive. He is too valuable on the outside, moving forward if they need to make a WR inactive for roster purposes it should be Amendola or LaFell. Edelman, Thompkins, and Dobson need to be active.

Brady6 said:

That was a mistake by Belichick leaving him inactive. He is too valuable on the outside, moving forward if they need to make a WR inactive for roster purposes it should be Amendola or LaFell. Edelman, Thompkins, and Dobson need to be active.

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Yep and Dobson has bulked up. He is a key piece and we need him. He is the only wr we have that can make the back shoulder (?) catch from Tom.

Marinlik said:

For me the defensive formation was the biggest problem for us. It really doesn't fit our top players. Putting Easley on the egde, putting Chandler Jones in the middle where he gets double teamed. Huge holes to run in. I just don't see why we would use this scheme with our current personel, and that's what I've said since we first saw it. It just eliminates our best players and put them in far less than ideal positions.

We have some really awesome defensive players. But these scheme really doesn't use them in the right way. It uses them to do what their worst at.

What do you guys think about the scheme?

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The defensive scheme is very easy to fix in my opinion. This is your depth chart:

LE-Rob Ninkovich-Michael Buchanan
3T DT-Dominque Easley-Chris Jones-Joe Vellano
1T NT-Vince Wilfork-Sealver Siliga
RE-Chandler Jones-Michael Buchnan-Zach Moore
SLB-Donta Hightower-Darius Fleming
MLB-Jerod Mayo-Donta Hightower-Chris White
WLB-Jamie Collins-Jerod Mayo-Chris White
LCB-Darrelle Revis-Logan Ryan-Malcolm Butler
RCB-Alfonzo Dennard-Logan Ryan-Kyle Arrington
SAF-Devin Mcourty-Kyle Arrington
SAF-Pat Chung-Tavon Wilson-Duron Harmon

That is how our defense aligns best, they need to stop toying with the 3-4 they do not have the players to do it. Chandler Jones is not JJ Watt, he has no business at 34DE it is a waste of his talents.

Brady6 said:

The defensive scheme is very easy to fix in my opinion. This is your depth chart:

LE-Rob Ninkovich-Michael Buchanan
3T DT-Dominque Easley-Chris Jones-Joe Vellano
1T NT-Vince Wilfork-Sealver Siliga
RE-Chandler Jones-Michael Buchnan-Zach Moore
SLB-Donta Hightower-Darius Fleming
MLB-Jerod Mayo-Donta Hightower-Chris White
WLB-Jamie Collins-Jerod Mayo-Chris White
LCB-Darrelle Revis-Logan Ryan-Malcolm Butler
RCB-Alfonzo Dennard-Logan Ryan-Kyle Arrington
SAF-Devin Mcourty-Kyle Arrington
SAF-Pat Chung-Tavon Wilson-Duron Harmon

That is how our defense aligns best, they need to stop toying with the 3-4 they do not have the players to do it. Chandler Jones is not JJ Watt, he has no business at 34DE it is a waste of his talents.

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I thought you said Bill was just using the 3-4 in TC/the preseason as a fundamentals teaching tool. He was still teaching fundamentals in game 1?

If I were Kraft I would wire $2 million straight to Scar's bank account after today's game so he can help fix this mess.

I'd like to see BB make a trade as well.

But first, perhaps try Stork &/or Fleming to see how they fair. The Packers started a 5th round rookie at center against Seattle and he did pretty good. Didn't give up a sack.

Archeryaddict12 said:

Yep and Dobson has bulked up. He is a key piece and we need him. He is the only wr we have that can make the back shoulder (?) catch from Tom.

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When you need to pick up chunks of yards you need a player like Dobson who can win a 1on1 matchup.

MrNathanDrake said:

Chandler and Easley are both 4-3 players. We drafted them while running mostly a 4-3.

Now the defense switched to 3-4. WHY? I don't see any reason for this defense to go 3-4.

Chandler is much more effective as a 43 DE. Borderline Pro Bowler at that position. But he was ineffective as 34 DE.... he's about 20-30lbs underweight for that position. WHY utilize one of your best defensive players the wrong way. Ugh!

Ninkovich always performed much better in a 4-3 as well.

Vellano is one of last guys I want to see getting a lot of snaps on defense. Can anyone seriously tell me this guy is btter than Tommy Kelly? Why did we cut Kelly again? Disgusting.

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All initial reactions asside. We played terribly all over the field today.

But this is a very good point. Why when you seemingly finally have the personnel to run a strong 4-3 defense do you switch up into a 3-4 where we suddenly have players out of possition. E.g Ninkovich @ OLB covering a RB out of the backfield for the 1st TD.

Wilfork IMO was the only front 7 player i saw today getting any consistant push. The rest flashed but even when they flashed (like collins did) we 50% of the time missed the tackle.

IMO this was a terrible performance. But what is more concerning was the style in which this D played all game. After digesting this a bit, I actually think this could have been worse as Tannehill missed Wallace who was behind Dennard for the early INT and on Ryan's forced fumble the Dolphins were marching down the field.

Anyway i'm beating a dead horse. We can't expect to play like that and be competative.

Marqui said:

I thought you said Bill was just using the 3-4 in TC/the preseason as a fundamentals teaching tool. He was still teaching fundamentals in game 1?

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I do not know what the F he was doing but I hope he does not do it again.. .

jsull87 said:

All initial reactions asside. We played terribly all over the field today.

But this is a very good point. Why when you seemingly finally have the personnel to run a strong 4-3 defense do you switch up into a 3-4 where we suddenly have players out of possition. E.g Ninkovich @ OLB covering a RB out of the backfield for the 1st TD.

Wilfork IMO was the only front 7 player i saw today getting any consistant push. The rest flashed but even when they flashed (like collins did) we 50% of the time missed the tackle.

IMO this was a terrible performance. But what is more concerning was the style in which this D played all game. After digesting this a bit, I actually think this could have been worse as Tannehill missed Wallace who was behind Dennard for the early INT and on Ryan's forced fumble the Dolphins were marching down the field.

Anyway i'm beating a dead horse. We can't expect to play like that and be competative.

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If they wanted to run a 3-4 they would have to concede not having Hightower and Ninkovich on the field at the same time, but they cannot have it both ways. They would have to bounce Wilfork out LDT and use Siliga at the NT.

LOLB – Ninkovich/Hightower
LDT – Wilfork
NT – Siliga
RDE – Easley
ROLB – Jones
LILB – Mayo
RILB – Collins

I still think that is less than ideal but trying to run a 3-4 with Vellano and Jones as your DEs is laughable.