2014 Practice Squad Thread

I apologize. I did not mean to suggest that Thomas should not be valued as high as 93. I agree that he was a reasonable pick at 93 or at 100.

My point is that the trade down wasn't all that relevant. If the team valued Thomas higher than Stork, then I think that we might very well have taken Thomas at 93. IMHO, Belichick saw the chance to get his man at 105 and pick up an additional pick. It certainly could have been the case that Belichick had both Stork and Thomas on the radar, with the expectation of getting one at 105.

In any case, the extra pick didn't work out this year. Out of the three 6th and 7th rounders, we ended up with a prospect DE (who is one the 53). IMHO, that's fine for a good young team.

mayoclinic said:

No hindsight at all. Many people projected Thomas as a top 40 pick prior to his ACL tear and projected him to LG. It was widely predicted that a team such as the Patriots or 49ers would take a chance on him and red shirt him for a year, and many people predicted that Logan Mankins would be gone in 2015, so the idea of drafting Thomas as Mankins' 2015 replacement made sense way before Mankins was traded. For example:


http://www.nepatriotslife.com/2014/04/top-guard-prospect-brandon-thomas-tears.html

I don't consider April 8 2014 to be "hindsight". By the time the draft rolled around a month later, that "late round pick" was considered to be no later than a 4th, and quite possibly a 3rd. The 49ers, loaded with extra picks, ended up using a 3rd round comp pick.

Of course, it's possible that the Pats didn't value Thomas as a likely 2015 starter, as you suggest, or that they valued Stork more. But I think it's also quite possible that having used their top pick on a guy coming off an ACL tear, they just decided that they didn't want to take on the risk of 2 of their top 3 picks being in that situation. JMHO. If so, I think it was a mistake.

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Snake Eyes said:

Who cares about "points", all that matters is the players that draft picks can give you. If BB instead drafted Seantrel Henderson, who has been starting for the Bills, would you be a fan of trading down?

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Many people on this board liked Henderson, FWIW, though he was certainly a risky pick.

Obviously, it's what you do with the picks, and how things fall, not the "points" you get. Trading back and getting Jamie Collins at #52 was a coup. If Collins had been off the board, maybe that move wouldn't have looked so good. Standing pat for Dominique Easley at #30 was the right move this year, IMO, as I suspect Easley would have been gone quickly. I think that Brandon Thomas was similarly worth taking at 93 and that trading back was a bad move because the Pats lost out on a premium talent, but that's JMHO. It will all depend on how the picks work out.

mgteich said:

I apologize. I did not mean to suggest that Thomas should not be valued as high as 93. I agree that he was a reasonable pick at 93 or at 100.

My point is that the trade down wasn't all that relevant. If the team valued Thomas higher than Stork, then I think that we might very well have taken Thomas at 93. IMHO, Belichick saw the chance to get his man at 105 and pick up an additional pick. It certainly could have been the case that Belichick had both Stork and Thomas on the radar, with the expectation of getting one at 105.

In any case, the extra pick didn't work out this year. Out of the three 6th and 7th rounders, we ended up with a prospect DE (who is one the 53). IMHO, that's fine for a good young team.

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Got it, thanks for the clarification.

I personally valued Thomas way above Stork, but that's just me. It's more than possible that the Pats valued Stork more, or valued them both closely and was willing to take a chance that one of them would be available at 105. As you say, the extra pick didn't work out this year, but that's always a risk. I have no problem with the trade back in general, I just didn't like it this year because I valued Thomas as a premium prospect and didn't think he would last till 105, but that was just me. The fact that our pick at 179 didn't work out (and that we passed up a guy like Antone Exum, who I think would have helped a lot) is just rubbing salt in the wound. You roll the dice, and it doesn't always come up the way you want.

mayoclinic said:

Many people on this board liked Henderson, FWIW, though he was certainly a risky pick.

Obviously, it's what you do with the picks, and how things fall, not the "points" you get. Trading back and getting Jamie Collins at #52 was a coup. If Collins had been off the board, maybe that move wouldn't have looked so good. Standing pat for Dominique Easley at #30 was the right move this year, IMO, as I suspect Easley would have been gone quickly. I think that Brandon Thomas was similarly worth taking at 93 and that trading back was a bad move because the Pats lost out on a premium talent, but that's JMHO. It will all depend on how the picks work out.

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Agreed that it was a risky pick, but that what the late rounds picks are for IMO. Trading back is a tactic that sometimes makes sense, as is trading forward, it all depends on the circumstances.

mayoclinic said:

Many people on this board liked Henderson, FWIW, though he was certainly a risky pick.

Obviously, it's what you do with the picks, and how things fall, not the "points" you get. Trading back and getting Jamie Collins at #52 was a coup. If Collins had been off the board, maybe that move wouldn't have looked so good. Standing pat for Dominique Easley at #30 was the right move this year, IMO, as I suspect Easley would have been gone quickly. I think that Brandon Thomas was similarly worth taking at 93 and that trading back was a bad move because the Pats lost out on a premium talent, but that's JMHO. It will all depend on how the picks work out.

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You're right. It is what you do with the picks, and I think the Tavon Wilson situation is the perfect example. This team could be lining up a full squad on defense, instead of missing an S2, if BB had just not screwed up 2012.

Lavonte David (2012) instead of Collins (2013)
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger (2013)
Dobson (2013)

Also, there were other ways that the team could have gone. Something like

Randle/Hilton/Sanu (2012)
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger (2013)
Jamie Collins (2013) (trade up if needed)

could still have happened. The Wilson mistake is impacting 2013 and beyond.

Deus Irae said:

You're right. It is what you do with the picks, and I think the Tavon Wilson situation is the perfect example. This team could be lining up a full squad on defense, instead of missing an S2, if BB had just not screwed up 2012.

Lavonte David (2012) instead of Collins (2013)
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger (2013)
Dobson (2013)

Also, there were other ways that the team could have gone. Something like

Randle/Hilton/Sanu (2012)
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger (2013)
Jamie Collins (2013) (trade up if needed)

could still have happened. The Wilson mistake is impacting 2013 and beyond.

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Conclusion on how to draft in the NFL.

Hit on 100% of your Draft picks.

Deus Irae said:

You're right.

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Excuse me, I must have misread that.

Deus Irae said:

It is what you do with the picks, and I think the Tavon Wilson situation is the perfect example. This team could be lining up a full squad on defense, instead of missing an S2, if BB had just not screwed up 2012.

Lavonte David (2012) instead of Collins (2013)
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger (2013)
Dobson (2013)

Also, there were other ways that the team could have gone. Something like

Randle/Hilton/Sanu (2012)
Elam/Cyprien/Swearinger (2013)
Jamie Collins (2013) (trade up if needed)

could still have happened. The Wilson mistake is impacting 2013 and beyond.

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I loved Swearinger and Cyprien in 2013, but my personal preference would have simply been to go with Chandler Jones at 21, Harrison Smith at 25, and Lavonte David at 48 in 2012. Then we'd have:

LDE Ninkovich - NT Wilfork - 3T Easley - RDE Jones

SAM Collins - MLB Mayo - WLB David

S McCourty - S H. Smith

CB Revis - CB Browner - CB3 Pick'em

I'd take that, personally.

Danger Zone said:

Conclusion on how to draft in the NFL.

Hit on 100% of your Draft picks.

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But only after trading back for more.

I don't have the football smarts of Mayo or Deus (or I suspect the latters agenda), but am I the only one that looks at the 2012 Draft and thinks that it has the potential to be a hell of a draft?

Danger Zone said:

I don't have the football smarts of Mayo or Deus (or I suspect the latters agenda), but am I the only one that looks at the 2012 Draft and thinks that it has the potential to be a hell of a draft?

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Chandler Jones alone makes it a hell of a draft.

mayoclinic said:

Chandler Jones alone makes it a hell of a draft.

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I might be at serious risk of oversimplifying my "grading system", but that my friend is the very criteria in which I base mine.

Add in the players who are still showing real promise, Dennard and Hightower and add in the players that are making strong ST and depth contributions and its an easy grade to make in my opinion.

Danger Zone said:

I might be at serious risk of oversimplifying my "grading system", but that my friend is the very criteria in which I base mine.

Add in the players who are still showing real promise, Dennard and Hightower and add in the players that are making strong ST and depth contributions and its an easy grade to make in my opinion.

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I agree completely.

1 true stud = a standout draft by any definition. Jamie Collins looks to make 2013 a similar situation.

2 late round keepers (starters or significant contributors) is extremely solid work.

Obviously, we wish the Pats had hit on everything. Jake Bequette and Tavon Wilson are disappointments, and Dont'a Hightower is talented but something of an enigma. It's tantalizing to think of some of the missed possibilities. But realistically, the Pats got a lot out of that draft.

mgteich said:

We wanted to draft a center. Our man was Stork at 93...

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Stork should've been nobody's man at 93. He was over-drafted at 105 as it was. If Bill really wanted
a Center at 105, then he should've taken Russell Bodine, who will be starting for Cincy tomorrow.

or better yet, his older brother Jethro...

captain stone said:

Stork should've been nobody's man at 93. He was over-drafted at 105 as it was. If Bill really wanted a Center at 105, then he should've taken Russell Bodine, who will be starting for Cincy tomorrow.

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Bodine was considered a reach in the 4th round. It's a surprise that he's starting for Cincinnati. He's strong as hell but not very mobile.

Teams have shown over and over again that they will follow their draft boards. If the Pats rated Stork as worth a high 4th rounder, they don't care that much where other teams rated him.

My personal guess, however - and it's just a guess, with nothing to back it up - is that the Pats would have taken RB Devonta Freeman at 105, and hoped that Stork fell to 130. When Freeman went off the board at #103, they reached just a bit for their second option. Again, I have nothing to base this on, but Freeman IMO is similar (but far superior) to James White.

The 2012 Draft looking just a little better seconds after Dennard's interception.

Joker said:

or better yet, his older brother Jethro...

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Jethro Bodine: one of the greatest characters in television sitcom history.

mayoclinic said:

Excuse me, I must have misread that.



I loved Swearinger and Cyprien in 2013, but my personal preference would have simply been to go with Chandler Jones at 21, Harrison Smith at 25, and Lavonte David at 48 in 2012. Then we'd have:

LDE Ninkovich - NT Wilfork - 3T Easley - RDE Jones

SAM Collins - MLB Mayo - WLB David

S McCourty - S H. Smith

CB Revis - CB Browner - CB3 Pick'em

I'd take that, personally.

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However we slice the alternatives, the overall point is that obvious alternative picks were available when BB decided to try out-thinking the room. This wasn't a case of injury or behavior knocking a player low. This was a case of a bad player being way overdrafted in a year where his position was extremely weak. If Belichick had just gone chalk with that Wilson pick, this defense would be set. However, despite all his failures at drafting DBs since 2006, instead of making the obvious, needed play, he went full Millen.

mayoclinic said:

Teams have shown over and over again that they will follow their draft boards. If the Pats rated Stork as worth a high 4th rounder, they don't care that much where other teams rated him.

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Good point, mayo.

mayoclinic said:

My personal guess, however - and it's just a guess, with nothing to back it up - is that the Pats would have taken RB Devonta Freeman at 105, and hoped that Stork fell to 130. When Freeman went off the board at #103, they reached just a bit for their second option. Again, I have nothing to base this on, but Freeman IMO is similar (but far superior) to James White.

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I'm a bit surprised that you'd feel this way. I'm not sure if you saw any of the "Hard Knocks" series this year with ATL who drafted him, but he seems like a player who has a LOT of growing up to do. He seemed very immature, was not paying attention in meetings or in one/one coaches discussions, and seemed like he had a long way to go.

Then again, with old man Steven Jackson at RB this year again, I wouldn't be surprised if Freeman got some nice opportunities. I just would have a hard time imagining him on the NEP myself, that's all.

mayoclinic said:

Bodine was considered a reach in the 4th round. It's a surprise that he's starting for Cincinnati. He's strong as hell but not very mobile.

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I could also make the case that Stork was a reach in the 4th round.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/member...s=C&draftyear=2014&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC