He Looks Like A Patriot DE/LB/DT

mgteich · Sep 6, 2014

We've talked a lot about scheme and the different roles players fill. Let's look at what the weight by position. I understand that Belichick secures players with the best talent, but there does seem to be a trend by position. I will not include Chris White in the analysis since he had only ONE defensive rep all year, at a a position with major injuries at the position. He won't be playing LB.
=============================================

DEFENSIVE END / OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
The ends are 255-265.
The linebackers are 250-255.
Some of these player can overlap and play the "other" position.

DEFENSIVE TACKLE
The DT's are 290-325.
Easley in the 290 pound guy. Some want to see him at DE. While possible, I think that he is a DT, hopefully a starting DT soon.

EXCEPTIONS
Hightower - 270
Moore - 275

Perhaps there is a reason that Hightower doesn't seem to fit.

Moore is a developmental prospect, so we have lots of time to see whether or where he fits. A decade ago this would be the size of an OLB/DE hybrid, but that was when our DE's were 3-4 300 pound players.

Brady6 · Sep 6, 2014

Whatever scale Wilfork weighs 325lbs on please sent one just like it to my house.. .

jah · Sep 6, 2014

Isn't Chandler Jones like 275-285 now?

mgteich · Sep 6, 2014

Elijah said:
Isn't Chandler Jones like 275-285 now?

Patriots.com and Rotoworld list Chandler Jones at 265.

BTTA · Sep 6, 2014

Good work, MG. Nice post, more than useful.

RayClay · Sep 6, 2014

mgteich said:
Patriots.com and Rotoworld list Chandler Jones at 265.

Having followed this with different players, I'm convinced that most sites use the rookie weights forever, or at least don't change it when appropriate.

Mack Herron · Sep 6, 2014

RayClay said:
Having followed this with different players, I'm convinced that most sites use the rookie weights forever, or at least don't change it when appropriate.

Correct. Because there are no new official weights. They just keep printing the rookie numbers. The Patriots roster weights never change, but Jones, Collins, Thompkins, Dobson were reported to be noticeably bigger, while Vince was said to have lost weight. All of this passes the eyeball test and is more credible than the roster.

VrabelJr · Sep 6, 2014

Chandler might be 270 now, but likely 275 at most. He said he put on 5 pounds in his upper body between his rookie and 2nd year and this year he said he really focused on his leg strength so that could be another 5 pounds. I would guess he is between 270 and 275.

The bodies of the Jones kids are insane. Look at Arthur, he is 6'4" 337 pounds and plays DE instead of NT because he's that athletic.

Unfortunately, the only way to get the absolutely correct details on Chandler Jones' weight is to send smoke signals asking for GymRat's expertise.

stinkypete · Sep 6, 2014

mgteich said:
Perhaps there is a reason that Hightower doesn't seem to fit.

While we've gone through the offseason assuming HIghtower is a starter, he seems the odd man out given the 3-4 alignment that (we think) will be the base defense. I think Hightower must be the top backup at ILB/OLB, and at DE should injuries force more 4-3 looks.

mayoclinic · Sep 6, 2014

In the Spring of 2013 that he had put on about 10 lbs. of muscle from his rookie, which should put him at about 270 last year:

Jones, who played at 260 pounds as a rookie, revealed that he added 10 pounds during the offseason, mostly in muscle. He says the weight is only going to help him get more physical on the outside, and he doesn’t expect it to slow him down at all. “I had a great offseason. I put on a lot of weight, a lot of muscle actually,” Jones said during an interview with Patriots Football Weekly. “My biggest thing wasn’t just putting on weight. Some guys will put on weight and they’ll run slower. I feel like I really haven’t missed a step with the 10 pounds added. The weight was good. It’s muscle mass.”

http://nesn.com/2013/05/chandler-jones-added-weight-in-offseason-says-patriots-fans-should-expect-19-sacks/

Jones said on a radio interview at the beginning of training camp that he was at about 266#. IIRC, he said something to the effect that he had put on considerable muscle mass this year, but was actually leaner and down a few lbs. form the 270# that he played at last year. I'm having trouble getting a link, but there is this:

http://www.boston.com/community/forums/sports/red-sox/on-the-front-burner/chandler-jones-im-65-266-up-about-20-lbs-of-muscle-link-to-audio/100/7423215?ia=28399430

mgteich · Sep 6, 2014

stinkypete said:
While we've gone through the offseason assuming HIghtower is a starter, he seems the odd man out given the 3-4 alignment that (we think) will be the base defense. I think Hightower must be the top backup at ILB/OLB, and at DE should injuries force more 4-3 looks.

Who is this "we" that thinks that we are running a 3-4 two-gap base?

Running a 3-4 base would have Collins as an ILB, not the best use of his talents.

I suppose I am OK with Easley as a 3-4 DE, although this isn't his best position. But who is the other DE?
Surely, Ninkovich and Jones are our OLB's in a 3-4. Our 3-4 DE's would be Chris Jones, Easley and Vellano. I suspect that Vellano would be the starting DE.

BOTTOM LINE
We have a 4-3 base defense, or a 3-4 with Ninkovich putting his hand on the ground (same personnel). We MIGHT run a lot of hybrid base, with one side in a one gap and the other in a 2 gap. Still, we wouldn't have a major change in personnel roles.

The major change would be if we ran a 3-4 2-gap base defense. IMHO, we are not well suited for this defense.

In the end, you DO NOT switch to a 3-4 when your weakest positions would then be at at DE.

VrabelJr · Sep 6, 2014

mgteich said:
Who is this "we" that thinks that we are running a 3-4 two-gap base?

Running a 3-4 base would have Collins as an ILB, not the best use of his talents.

I suppose I am OK with Easley as a 3-4 DE, although this isn't his best position. But who is the other DE?
Surely, Ninkovich and Jones are our OLB's in a 3-4. Our 3-4 DE's would be Chris Jones, Easley and Vellano. I suspect that Vellano would be the starting DE.

BOTTOM LINE
We have a 4-3 base defense, or a 3-4 with Ninkovich putting his hand on the ground (same personnel). We MIGHT run a lot of hybrid base, with one side in a one gap and the other in a 2 gap. Still, we wouldn't have a major change in personnel roles.

The major change would be if we ran a 3-4 2-gap base defense. IMHO, we are not well suited for this defense.

In the end, you DO NOT switch to a 3-4 when your weakest positions would then be at at DE.

If Collins plays an ILB position in the 3-4, and he will, it would still be the WILL position. So it's the same position for him and Mayo regardless of 3-4 or 4-3.

BlueThunder · Sep 6, 2014

I love it when you guys talk footballeze.......

The only gap I have is between my ears

RayClay · Sep 6, 2014

mgteich said:
We've talked a lot about scheme and the different roles players fill. Let's look at what the weight by position. I understand that Belichick secures players with the best talent, but there does seem to be a trend by position. I will not include Chris White in the analysis since he had only ONE defensive rep all year, at a a position with major injuries at the position. He won't be playing LB.
=============================================

DEFENSIVE END / OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
The ends are 255-265.
The linebackers are 250-255.
Some of these player can overlap and play the "other" position.

DEFENSIVE TACKLE
The DT's are 290-325.
Easley in the 290 pound guy. Some want to see him at DE. While possible, I think that he is a DT, hopefully a starting DT soon.

EXCEPTIONS
Hightower - 270
Moore - 275

Perhaps there is a reason that Hightower doesn't seem to fit.

Moore is a developmental prospect, so we have lots of time to see whether or where he fits. A decade ago this would be the size of an OLB/DE hybrid, but that was when our DE's were 3-4 300 pound players.

I agree (based on a limited sample) that Easley is ill suited to playing on the outside most of the time. When I've seen him line up there in vids, he seems to get ridden out fairly easily by bigger men with longer arms.

Brady6 · Sep 6, 2014

VrabelJr said:
Chandler might be 270 now, but likely 275 at most. He said he put on 5 pounds in his upper body between his rookie and 2nd year and this year he said he really focused on his leg strength so that could be another 5 pounds. I would guess he is between 270 and 275.

The bodies of the Jones kids are insane. Look at Arthur, he is 6'4" 337 pounds and plays DE instead of NT because he's that athletic.

Unfortunately, the only way to get the absolutely correct details on Chandler Jones' weight is to send smoke signals asking for GymRat's expertise.

At the combine Chandler Jones was 6’5” 266lbs, reports indicated that he added weight between the draft and his rookie camp, so we will say he weighed 270lbs during his rookie season. He said that he gained 10lbs between his rookie and second season so that would make him say 280lbs last season, and this offseason he once again added weight to his lower body. I would say Jones weighs a minimum of 285lbs, close to 290lbs. He is nearly 6’5” ½ so 290lbs is not that much for him. He is a JJ Watt type player now, capable of playing 34DE, 43DE, 43DT, and 34OLB, which is exactly what I think Belichick envisioned when he drafted him.

Arthur Jones was 6’3” 301lbs at his combine so he must have really bulked up as well.

Brady6 · Sep 6, 2014

mayoclinic said:
In the Spring of 2013 that he had put on about 10 lbs. of muscle from his rookie, which should put him at about 270 last year:

http://nesn.com/2013/05/chandler-jones-added-weight-in-offseason-says-patriots-fans-should-expect-19-sacks/

Jones said on a radio interview at the beginning of training camp that he was at about 266#. IIRC, he said something to the effect that he had put on considerable muscle mass this year, but was actually leaner and down a few lbs. form the 270# that he played at last year. I'm having trouble getting a link, but there is this:

http://www.boston.com/community/forums/sports/red-sox/on-the-front-burner/chandler-jones-im-65-266-up-about-20-lbs-of-muscle-link-to-audio/100/7423215?ia=28399430

I am not sure where they came up with the 260lb number because he weighed 266lbs at the combine and he did not lose 6lbs after that, he was bigger when he got to training camp that year.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83246&draftyear=2012&genpos=DE

mikey m · Sep 6, 2014

Didn't Chandler say in a video recently, the one with ninkovich, that he weighed 255-260? He may not have been serious as he and rob were joking around but either way I doubt that he's around the 275 that some guys here believe, and all of us wish, he weighs. All fairly irrelevant anyway, whatever Chandler's weight is he holds up well against the run and sets the edge gunna have a huge year.
I wonder if a defense could even be successful in today's NFL playing our 3-4 two gap of last decade. Would have to scheme blitzes/pass rush and have excellent man-to-man DBs I imagine.

RayClay · Sep 6, 2014

Can't see that a 3-4 is better for most of our personnel.

He Looks Like A Patriot DE/LB/DT

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran

Brady6

Pro Bowl Player

jah

Degeneracy Expert

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran

BTTA

He/Him

RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster

Mack Herron

Pro Bowl Player

VrabelJr

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

stinkypete

In the Starting Line-Up

mayoclinic

PatsFans.com Supporter

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran

VrabelJr

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

BlueThunder

PatsFans.com Supporter

RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster

Brady6

Pro Bowl Player

Brady6

Pro Bowl Player

mikey m

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

RayClay

Hall of Fame Poster

Similar threads