Great breakdown of the Patriots offensive system.

I've often tried to understand how the Pats offense works. And many on this site have enlightened me on a lot of it. I found this article very interesting and in depth. It was on PatsFans news headlines, so I figured I would post it for those who missed it and would like to know how difficult it really is.

What Makes The Patriots Offense So Difficult For Wide Receivers - Boston.com

SBR,

This article does a much better job of explaining how our system works. It's written by Chris Brown who has divine status in the football world.

http://grantland.com/features/how-t...helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

PP2 said:

SRB,

This article does a much better job of explaining how our system works. It's written by Chris Brown who has divine status in the football world.

http://grantland.com/features/how-t...helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

Click to expand...

Holy crap, this is an incredible piece, thank you very much

PP2 said:

SRB,

This article does a much better job of explaining how our system works. It's written by Chris Brown who has divine status in the football world.

http://grantland.com/features/how-t...helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

Click to expand...

After reading this my brain hurts...

Reading these articles I have to ask..what other teams use the same system we do? Do the other perennial good qbs and offenses use them? Manning? Saints? GB?

And if they don't, yet can still put up amazing numbers on offense...is all the trouble we go through to implement our system worthwhile?

PP2 said:

SBR,

This article does a much better job of explaining how our system works. It's written by Chris Brown who has divine status in the football world.

http://grantland.com/features/how-t...helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

Click to expand...

Really great read, thanks for posting that link.

But don't let our kicker see that, I don't think he would appreciate the "ghost/tosser" references! I admit, I did laugh when I saw that. Ha, seriously though, great article.

Silver Blue&Red said:

I've often tried to understand how the Pats offense works. And many on this site have enlightened me on a lot of it. I found this article very interesting and in depth. It was on PatsFans news headlines, so I figured I would post it for those who missed it and would like to know how difficult it really is.

What Makes The Patriots Offense So Difficult For Wide Receivers - Boston.com

Click to expand...

This was a good read also. I think I appreciated it a bit more after first reading the one PP2 posted. It sort of brought the concepts into perspective.

So it's more complicated than drawing up something in the dirt and saying, you go here, you go there and I'll get one of you the ball?

Explains why & how Pats are best able to run the up-tempo no-huddle that is not achievable readily in other offenses. I can see why some WRs who are not innate quick thinkers cannot adapt.

I would think that a brief focused teaching session plus route running test should be the tryout criteria for FAs and rookie prospects.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Explains why & how Pats are best able to run the up-tempo no-huddle that is not achievable readily in other offenses. I can see why some WRs who are not innate quick thinkers cannot adapt.

I would think that a brief focused teaching session plus route running test should be the tryout criteria for FAs and rookie prospects.

Click to expand...

Interesting point about the up-tempo offense. I'd like to see whether anyone has seen a similar description of the Chip Kelly offensive system (or the system that is going to be used in other up-tempo teams like Miami) to see whether they too use a read & react route tree or if there is a whole other approach being used to crank out plays.

ALP said:

Reading these articles I have to ask..what other teams use the same system we do? Do the other perennial good qbs and offenses use them? Manning? Saints? GB?

And if they don't, yet can still put up amazing numbers on offense...is all the trouble we go through to implement our system worthwhile?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by "all the trouble", so I'm going to assume you mean NE's apparent difficulty with finding receivers.

Short answer, yes, it is worth it. NE's system values different receiver traits than other offenses, so it allows them to buy at a discount.

For instance, Manning spent more than half of his Indy tenure with three first round receivers (including TEs) and nearly all of it with at least two. He went from first round RB to first round RB to first round RB to first round RB. Not all of these picks were successful, but the investment is significant, and a factor in why the defense never really improved. Manning is awesome, but it would take colossal scouting or QB issues for their offense to have not been at least good.

NO is a rung down as far as investing in receivers, but they have used 4 first rounders on offensive skill players in Brees' tenure between WRs and RBs. Great scouting of Colston and Graham may be a factor in suppressing the number of high picks, but even with that it is still a good deal higher than NE. It also should be noted that Brees started in NO with holdovers Henderson, Stallworth and McCallister, who were a second, first and first respectively.

Now take a look at GB and the Patriots. Since 2005 (the year after Rodgers came into the league), the two teams invested a nearly identical four seconds (Jackson, Welker, Dobson, Gronk) and two thirds (Tate/Price) to GB's 5 seconds and two thirds. RBs are also very similar; a first (Maroney) and a second (Vereen) vs two seconds and a third.

The distinction between them? GB actually hit on a much higher rate. I'm not trying to give NE credit for misfiring, just pointing out that the actual talent acquired to sustain GB's excellence was far greater than what NE needed. Anecdotally, these four QBs have similar average annual stats over the last decade even though none of the others ever had to deal with a 2006 caliber dearth at receiver... and Brady went through that twice!

Some of that is a testament to Tom's greatness, of course, but some of that is the system making use of skill sets that weren't as valuable elsewhere.

Edit: It is also noteworthy that NE's highest 4 offensive selections in Brady's career - Maroney, Jackson, Graham and Watson - didn't do all that much. I loved Graham and think he was an integral part of the 2003 and 2004 championships, but he was never the receiver he was supposed to be. Something tells me that NE is going to continue to stay away from first round receivers.

ALP said:

Reading these articles I have to ask..what other teams use the same system we do? Do the other perennial good qbs and offenses use them? Manning? Saints? GB?

And if they don't, yet can still put up amazing numbers on offense...is all the trouble we go through to implement our system worthwhile?

Click to expand...

I think one of the upshots of this system is that you don't necessarily need dominant receivers to do well. You can win with coverage mismatches rather than brute ability.

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

Interesting point about the up-tempo offense. I'd like to see whether anyone has seen a similar description of the Chip Kelly offensive system (or the system that is going to be used in other up-tempo teams like Miami) to see whether they too use a read & react route tree or if there is a whole other approach being used to crank out plays.

Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. Also Lazors? Miami offense.

PP2 said:

SBR,

This article does a much better job of explaining how our system works. It's written by Chris Brown who has divine status in the football world.

http://grantland.com/features/how-t...helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

Click to expand...

Nice find, and many thanks for that! A good, easy-to-digest read, and explains a lot.

Read both articles.
One potential issue - wouldn't it be easy for a defense to stop the offense once it knows the Patriot concepts through film review? For example, that one play has all the receivers on one side go up and to the sidelines, and the other receivers run inside slants from the other side. It doesn't matter what the formation is, but once a safety or corner knows that Patriot concept, wouldn't it make it easier to defend knowing the offense basically runs the same concept route directions? One of the articles says the system is easier for QB's to understand. Stands to reason that it also makes it easier for a smart defensive safety on the other team to understand too.

DropKickFlutie said:

Read both articles.
One potential issue - wouldn't it be easy for a defense to stop the offense once it knows the Patriot concepts through film review? For example, that one play has all the receivers on one side go up and to the sidelines, and the other receivers run inside slants from the other side. It doesn't matter what the formation is, but once a safety or corner knows that Patriot concept, wouldn't it make it easier to defend knowing the offense basically runs the same concept route directions? One of the articles says the system is easier for QB's to understand. Stands to reason that it also makes it easier for a smart defensive safety on the other team to understand too.

Click to expand...

The article also explains how the receivers change their routes based on what happens after the snap and I believe this is one of the main reasons why it's so hard to learn and to stop once it's learned. At least that is how I understood it.

ALP said:

Reading these articles I have to ask..what other teams use the same system we do? Do the other perennial good qbs and offenses use them? Manning? Saints? GB?

And if they don't, yet can still put up amazing numbers on offense...is all the trouble we go through to implement our system worthwhile?

Click to expand...

After the Broncos got beat down by the Seahawks in the super bowl, Ryan Clark (ex-Steeler) was on ESPN First Take talking about how the Seahawks figured out Manning's hand signals. (You can probably find this video on youtube). Anyway, it was interesting that he mentioned the scheme that Manning runs with the Broncos is pretty much the same one he ran with the Colts and that it wasn't complicated to figure out. The Patriots are the only team (that I know of) that have their receivers run these sophisticated option routes and that is why Chad Johnson had so much trouble grasping the pats offense. When Bill said that Randy moss was the smartest receiver he's ever coached I actually believed him because he had so much success here. The point is I miss Randy Moss because the man was "straight up ca$h".

Oswlek said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "all the trouble", so I'm going to assume you mean NE's apparent difficulty with finding receivers.

Short answer, yes, it is worth it. NE's system values different receiver traits than other offenses, so it allows them to buy at a discount.

For instance, Manning spent more than half of his Indy tenure with three first round receivers (including TEs) and nearly all of it with at least two. He went from first round RB to first round RB to first round RB to first round RB. Not all of these picks were successful, but the investment is significant, and a factor in why the defense never really improved. Manning is awesome, but it would take colossal scouting or QB issues for their offense to have not been at least good.

NO is a rung down as far as investing in receivers, but they have used 4 first rounders on offensive skill players in Brees' tenure between WRs and RBs. Great scouting of Colston and Graham may be a factor in suppressing the number of high picks, but even with that it is still a good deal higher than NE. It also should be noted that Brees started in NO with holdovers Henderson, Stallworth and McCallister, who were a second, first and first respectively.

Now take a look at GB and the Patriots. Since 2005 (the year after Rodgers came into the league), the two teams invested a nearly identical four seconds (Jackson, Welker, Dobson, Gronk) and two thirds (Tate/Price) to GB's 5 seconds and two thirds. RBs are also very similar; a first (Maroney) and a second (Vereen) vs two seconds and a third.

The distinction between them? GB actually hit on a much higher rate. I'm not trying to give NE credit for misfiring, just pointing out that the actual talent acquired to sustain GB's excellence was far greater than what NE needed. Anecdotally, these four QBs have similar average annual stats over the last decade even though none of the others ever had to deal with a 2006 caliber dearth at receiver... and Brady went through that twice!

Some of that is a testament to Tom's greatness, of course, but some of that is the system making use of skill sets that weren't as valuable elsewhere.

Edit: It is also noteworthy that NE's highest 4 offensive selections in Brady's career - Maroney, Jackson, Graham and Watson - didn't do all that much. I loved Graham and think he was an integral part of the 2003 and 2004 championships, but he was never the receiver he was supposed to be. Something tells me that NE is going to continue to stay away from first round receivers.

Click to expand...

This is a great write up. It's interesting to note that BB invested heavily in learning Chip Kelly's system while he was in Oregon and in this offseason.....Kelly seemed pretty comfortable dumping his high priced "#1" receiver in Desean Jackson.

Going forward, it seems the obvious question that NFL GM's have to ask is if it makes sense to invest high picks and cap space to elite skill position talent vs developing rosters and schemes that develop based on a concept that your #3/4/5 cover guys can't handle our #3/4/5 skill guys.

My guess is this might be why BB hasn't drafted someone to replace AHern and to what extent Wright will provide two TE possibilities. The two TE offense can only be stopped by injuries.....which is painfully obvious over the past three years. Maybe BB will not fully invest because one really needs three elite TE's to do it.

Also, New Orleans has done a great job at overlapping their skill position skill sets. Nothing like redundancy.

ALP said:

Reading these articles I have to ask..what other teams use the same system we do? Do the other perennial good qbs and offenses use them? Manning? Saints? GB?

And if they don't, yet can still put up amazing numbers on offense...is all the trouble we go through to implement our system worthwhile?

Click to expand...

Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger are in roughly the same "system," meaning the terminology used to describe plays. Erhardt-Perkins uses route concepts or patterns for each side of the field.

Drew Brees and historically Peyton Manning are in other systems derived from "Air Coryell" which uses a numbered route tree to describe what receivers are to do.

Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck and Russel Wilson are in West Coast systems, which uses receiver name - route name.

Any of these systems can accommodate after-the-snap reads by QB and receivers.

patsfanincleveland said:

This is a great write up. It's interesting to note that BB invested heavily in learning Chip Kelly's system while he was in Oregon and in this offseason.....Kelly seemed pretty comfortable dumping his high priced "#1" receiver in Desean Jackson.

Going forward, it seems the obvious question that NFL GM's have to ask is if it makes sense to invest high picks and cap space to elite skill position talent vs developing rosters and schemes that develop based on a concept that your #3/4/5 cover guys can't handle our #3/4/5 skill guys.

My guess is this might be why BB hasn't drafted someone to replace AHern and to what extent Wright will provide two TE possibilities. The two TE offense can only be stopped by injuries.....which is painfully obvious over the past three years. Maybe BB will not fully invest because one really needs three elite TE's to do it.

Also, New Orleans has done a great job at overlapping their skill position skill sets. Nothing like redundancy.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I should have noted that acquiring Moss and Hernandez with later picks certainly helped NE offset their high pick drafting issues... but all evidence seems to suggest that NE would have been quite good even with moderate level talents in their place.

As for Ahern, they've only had one draft to do something about him, and it just so happens to contain one of the worst TE crops in recent history. I wouldn't read too much into that just yet, though Wright still has plenty to say about that.

Say what you want about Bill, there isn't a single GM better at finding arbitrage opportunities. He seems to have his finger on precisely what the league is undervaluing at any given moment.