Curran: Brady 'almost certainly' gone before 2017

rochrist · Aug 30, 2014

fair catch fryar said:
No way. In past interviews when Brady talks about the night of the 2000 draft, he states that he was already planning in his mind that he would have to go the UDFA route before the Pats called him. Someone would've signed him and never looked back.

I'm sure someone would have signed him. That doesn't mean he would have ever gotten to play if he'd ended up in the wrong place and/or the wrong system. Brady6 thinks I don't like Brady which is ridiculous, I love him. But that doesn't mean that I think that when he came into the league he was gving off some sort of magic unicorn QB vapor that meant he was destined to climb to the top no matter what obstacles were in his way. That makes a nice story, but real life rarely works that way.

AzPatsFan · Aug 30, 2014

RayClay said:
It was past time for Tedy, to be honest. The reason he wasn't cut before is he had a team friendly salary (I believe, I am not Miguel).

Yes he did. Bruschi never went for the ultimate dollar and made sure his compensation was not outlandish. People used to laugh that he had no agent, but he knew better. A mega-deal seldom if ever is kept to completion.

I think Brady learned from that, and has done the same. The Team is not forced to let him go, because he isn't worth the deal anymore. He has more chance to finish as a Pat than Unitas, Namath, or Peyton.

AzPatsFan · Aug 30, 2014

The supposition is that Brady was worth a differential of Five games over a guy that hadn't played since high school.

What would the differential be over an experienced but mediocre-good QB eg Andy Dalton Three games.?

What would the differential be with a good QB? eg Phil Rivers One game?

What would the differential be with a SB QB eg Brett Favre Zero games?

What would the differential be with a Top3 QB eg Brees or Peyton -1 or -2 games?

How many Lombardis would be sitting in Gillette today, if the Pats won 1 or 2 more games per season???

I don't think you thought your hypothesis out very well.

RayClay · Aug 30, 2014

cstjohn17 said:
Ha Ha Ha, BB win without Brady, that is rich. Good one.

Come on Cassel, don't you have a new team to attend to?

AzPatsFan · Aug 31, 2014

I rise in defense of Great Coaches. They find a way to find players, that they can win with. They find a way to utilize those players to win. If Brady did not come to the Patriots, I'm certain that BB would have soon decided that Bledsoe wasn't the QB he wanted. BB would have found or finagled another QB to win with. History would have been different n detail but the essense would remain.

The Browns eeked out a couple of wining seasons after they fired Paul Brown. But Paul Brown after 20 years of winning, would start an expansion team and take it to the SuperBowl before his namesake Browns did.

MIami fired Don Shula and the Dolphins grew progressively weaker ever since. Has it been 20 years on?

The Cowboys continued a gentle decline after they fired Jimmy Johnson but haven't been back to the Super Bowl since. Now they start losing in earnest.

All I am saying is that Bill Belichick would find away to win. He would find the players and they would win for him.

Great Coaches find a way.

fair catch fryar · Aug 31, 2014

rochrist said:
I'm sure someone would have signed him. That doesn't mean he would have ever gotten to play if he'd ended up in the wrong place and/or the wrong system. Brady6 thinks I don't like Brady which is ridiculous, I love him. But that doesn't mean that I think that when he came into the league he was gving off some sort of magic unicorn QB vapor that meant he was destined to climb to the top no matter what obstacles were in his way. That makes a nice story, but real life rarely works that way.

Former NFL QB coach **** Rehbein apparently saw the "magic unicorn QB vapor" coming out of Michigan. I disagree with your point, come hook or crook, a guy like Brady would have eventually found a way to become a starting QB in the NFL for some team. Thank goodness it was us.

RayClay · Aug 31, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
Yes he did. Bruschi never went for the ultimate dollar and made sure his compensation was not outlandish. People used to laugh that he had no agent, but he knew better. A mega-deal seldom if ever is kept to completion.

I think Brady learned from that, and has done the same. The Team is not forced to let him go, because he isn't worth the deal anymore. He has more chance to finish as a Pat than Unitas, Namath, or Peyton.

Absolutely. if the team wishes to cut him, risk paying all his salary, plus the other quarterback's and end up with a question mark instead of the GOAT a little long in the tooth they can.

Now, come 2017 (not what Curran wrote about) there will be issues, but I don't see why they can't structure an extension or something for Garoppolo and a year to year salary for Brady commensurate with his age. Also, who's to say there isn't another young quarterback in the mix by that time?

People get so fixated on absolutes here. Garoppollo was a bust out of practice, then completes a few passes with a quick release and he's better than a hall of famer a few weeks later. It doesn't work that way.

First round pick Aaron Rodgers served a 3 year apprenticeship and it didn't seem to hurt his career. By contrast, we're talking about a division 2 quarterback who didn't have a playbook his last two years, and didn't take the snap from center. Time to slow down. Three years is a long time.

Mogamedogz · Aug 31, 2014

Not sure why anyone would think that the Pats would hang on to TFB if/when his play slips to below that of Garropolo.

Nothing in this teams history suggests that they would. Age is catching up with our guy. It catches up to everyone. Like any athlete, TFB will try and hang on a season or two too long... But it wont be in a Pats uniform. And im sure Brady knows that, he's not a stupid guy by any means.

BEST case scenario IMHO, Brady has 2 Maybe (and a BIG maybe) 3 seasons left here. Id be absolutely shocked if he made it beyond that. I'd be much less shocked if it were less than what im projecting.

Absurdly Metro · Aug 31, 2014

Not sure why anyone would think that TFB's play will EVER slip below that of Garrapolo. Seems like a lot of people on this board are counting the GOAT out in the next three years. I, for one, would be amazed if we are able to find a QB able to supplant him within the next five years even. IMO, Brady at even 50% of his powers is > 50% of the other QB's in the league.

Oswlek · Aug 31, 2014

Brady6 said:
I think you are way off. You do not see that Brady allows Belichick to make the mistakes he does, do you think that this team would overcome these high draft pick failures without Tom Brady as the QB?

- Josh Boyce
- Jake Bequette
- Tavon Wilson
- Ras-I Dowling
- Jermaine Cunningham
- Taylor Price
- Ron Brace
- Darius Butler
- Brandon Tate
- Terence Wheatley
- Shawn Crable

Heck this week we released 1/3 of our draft class from this draft. How about the Fanene, Lloyd, Wilson, Thomas, etc. free agent signings do you think those would just be water under the bridge if not for Brady? How about giving a murderer a $40M contract and letting the leading receiver in the NFL walk, do you think that is easily overcome with Garopollo throwing the football? You are wrong and would have to know very little about football to believe that, because no other team with those types of mistakes has overcome it recently.

Brady is the hardest working player on the team, you know when the best most important player is the hardest worker what that does, it makes the other players do the same thing. Players like Edelman model themselves after Brady right down to their haircuts.

I like Garopollo, think he has a chance to be a solid NFL QB, but let me tell you from an experience perspective, competition perspective, size perspective, and arm strength perspective the odds are against him, so your assumption that he will succeed because he had success in the preseason, that is just ignorant on your part. What do you think lighting in the bottle just repeats, the replacement for the GOAT QB just happened to be the #62 pick in the 2014 draft because Belichick made it? That is some heavy hope you have here, have you seen the list of second round misses I put above, but yeah for sure we drafted the next HOF QB, trade Brady. You are off your rocker if you think this team is going to move forward without any down period when Brady is gone, completely off your rocker, out of your mind.

Maybe I should dislike your post and really show you what I think… You and @rochrist use the dislike and disagree button like no other posters on this board, I am beginning to think you are brothers…

This is a smorgasbord of things I disagree with.

Do you think that this team would overcome these high draft pick failures without Tom Brady as the QB?

This statement completely ignores how much of a crap shoot the draft is. Listing all of NE's misses is only relevant if you can demonstrate that every other team in the league did significantly better over that time. If every other team has a draft board full of misses (hint: they do) then there is no reason to believe that NE's failures created a competitive disadvantage.

Frankly, Matt Cassell alone should demonstrate that NE is fully capable of continued success beyond Brady. I can hear the response now - but that team was great! - to which I say, "Of course! But who put that roster together?"

You are wrong and would have to know very little about football to believe that, because no other team with those types of mistakes has overcome it recently.

This line demonstrates a massive lack of draft awareness. Whether you look at the last 5 years or over Bill's entire tenure you can't find 5 GMs with markedly better draft success. You will find at least 20 that are significantly inferior.

What Bill had that still colors people's perceptions is a truly terrible 3-4 year run. Interestingly, the 2007 and 2009 drafts (two classes during this run of ineptitude) were historically bad and saw a higher than normal members wash out of the league early. Not saying that Bill is off the hook, but perspective is always useful.

I like Garopollo, think he has a chance to be a solid NFL QB, but let me tell you from an experience perspective, competition perspective, size perspective, and arm strength perspective the odds are against him, so your assumption that he will succeed because he had success in the preseason, that is just ignorant on your part.

This seems awfully presumptuous of you. You seem to be saying that Gops is a worse prospect than any late second rounder and I'm struggling to figure out why. If the competition he faced is such a detriment, why did he look better in the preseason than most other rookie QBs and even Mallett? Arm strength? I saw some terrific throws that went quite a bit down the field, something Kyle Boller could only wish to make. How does any other rookie have more experience than he has? That makes no sense at all.

We just saw a quarterback that NE is obviously high on look pretty damn feisty in his first preseason. What is the need to piss in anyone's cornflakes? Do you really feel like you need to hold on to your pre-draft reservations instead of just enjoying the ride and seeing where it goes?

The funny thing is, the very thing you spend most of the comment disparaging - Bill's drafting - is reason to be optimistic. The overwhelming majority of QBs selected in the 4th round or later amount to nothing. Many don't even make it through their very first camp. Somehow, though, Bill found three guys (Brady, Cassell, Hoyer) in a little over a decade that became NFL caliber. You will not find a better success rate on any team in that time. Forgive me if I place more faith in a proven front office and what I see with my own eyes than your junior scouting.

You are off your rocker if you think this team is going to move forward without any down period when Brady is gone, completely off your rocker, out of your mind.

Hyperbole. Do a poll right now and see if anyone... literally anyone... thinks Gops will be as good as Brady. What people are saying is that we expect Bill to keep the Patriots competitive through this transition. It isn't like recently history demonstrates the need to have a great QB to be a SB contender. Sure, guys like Brady, Rodgers and Manning pretty much a blank check into the second round, but with Eli, Flacco and Wilson, the bar isn't exactly set at all-time greatness to be a superbowl champion.

Mogamedogz · Aug 31, 2014

Absurdly Metro said:
Not sure why anyone would think that TFB's play will EVER slip below that of Garrapolo. Seems like a lot of people on this board are counting the GOAT out in the next three years. I, for one, would be amazed if we are able to find a QB able to supplant him within the next five years even. IMO, Brady at even 50% of his powers is > 50% of the other QB's in the league.

Never thought I'd type this in my life...but I think you're overrating Brady here. Everyone gets old. Garropolo looks like the best QB we've had on this roster (other than TFB) since Drew.

Brady at 50% of what he is right now, will in all likelihood not be a better option than Jimmy. I love him too.. I get it. It's hard to accept. But time waits for no man. Especially in the NFL.

Brady6 · Aug 31, 2014

Oswlek said:
This is a smorgasbord of things I disagree with.

Do you think that this team would overcome these high draft pick failures without Tom Brady as the QB?

This statement completely ignores how much of a crap shoot the draft is. Listing all of NE's misses is only relevant if you can demonstrate that every other team in the league did significantly better over that time. If every other team has a draft board full of misses (hint: they do) then there is no reason to believe that NE's failures created a competitive disadvantage.

Frankly, Matt Cassell alone should demonstrate that NE is fully capable of continued success beyond Brady. I can hear the response now - but that team was great! - to which I say, "Of course! But who put that roster together?"

You are wrong and would have to know very little about football to believe that, because no other team with those types of mistakes has overcome it recently.

This line demonstrates a massive lack of draft awareness. Whether you look at the last 5 years or over Bill's entire tenure you can't find 5 GMs with markedly better draft success. You will find at least 20 that are significantly inferior.

What Bill had that still colors people's perceptions is a truly terrible 3-4 year run. Interestingly, the 2007 and 2009 drafts (two classes during this run of ineptitude) were historically bad and saw a higher than normal members wash out of the league early. Not saying that Bill is off the hook, but perspective is always useful.

I like Garopollo, think he has a chance to be a solid NFL QB, but let me tell you from an experience perspective, competition perspective, size perspective, and arm strength perspective the odds are against him, so your assumption that he will succeed because he had success in the preseason, that is just ignorant on your part.

This seems awfully presumptuous of you. You seem to be saying that Gops is a worse prospect than any late second rounder and I'm struggling to figure out why. If the competition he faced is such a detriment, why did he look better in the preseason than most other rookie QBs and even Mallett? Arm strength? I saw some terrific throws that went quite a bit down the field, something Kyle Boller could only wish to make. How does any other rookie have more experience than he has? That makes no sense at all.

We just saw a quarterback that NE is obviously high on look pretty damn feisty in his first preseason. What is the need to piss in anyone's cornflakes? Do you really feel like you need to hold on to your pre-draft reservations instead of just enjoying the ride and seeing where it goes?

The funny thing is, the very thing you spend most of the comment disparaging - Bill's drafting - is reason to be optimistic. The overwhelming majority of QBs selected in the 4th round or later amount to nothing. Many don't even make it through their very first camp. Somehow, though, Bill found three guys (Brady, Cassell, Hoyer) in a little over a decade that became NFL caliber. You will not find a better success rate on any team in that time. Forgive me if I place more faith in a proven front office and what I see with my own eyes than your junior scouting.

You are off your rocker if you think this team is going to move forward without any down period when Brady is gone, completely off your rocker, out of your mind.

Hyperbole. Do a poll right now and see if anyone... literally anyone... thinks Gops will be as good as Brady. What people are saying is that we expect Bill to keep the Patriots competitive through this transition. It isn't like recently history demonstrates the need to have a great QB to be a SB contender. Sure, guys like Brady, Rodgers and Manning pretty much a blank check into the second round, but with Eli, Flacco and Wilson, the bar isn't exactly set at all-time greatness to be a superbowl champion.

I could respond to each and every thing you wrote here but I am not going to waste either of our time. I have realized something recently, I do not always need to convince the other poster that my opinion is the right opinion, more times than not what I post and many disagree with ends up being correct, so I am comfortable letting the future outcome determine the accuracy of my post. I also know that this debate is an uphill battle, because as I said before posters/fans mentally need to believe that Bill Belichick is the most significant piece to the success of this team, because if they allow themselves to believe it is actually Tom Brady they know that the window for success is closing a lot sooner than it is with Belichick. Jimmy Garopollo may develop into a starting QB, I personally am of the opinion that he will be traded in 2016 for a draft pick just like Ryan Mallett and they will draft another QB, one that is more likely to become the heir apparent to the greatest QB of all time. I cannot envision them pushing Brady out the door, the is the face of the franchise and a god in New England, they would capsize the boat with a move like that, and unless Brady is injured, which has only happen 1 time in 13 years I doubt Garopollo will start a game in the next 4 seasons (if he stays that long) and I do not think Belichick is going to sign Garopollo to a starter level contract before he even starts a game.

As much as I would like to believe that Belichick used the #62 pick in the draft to replace the GOAT QB without even a hiccup, I would also like to believe that he could replace Pat Chung with the #48 draft pick. TY Yates – 15/20 243 yards, 2 touchdowns, Colt McCoy – 22/29 321 yards, 2 touchdowns, those are some nice numbers by these 2 QBs this past week, which HOF QB will they be displacing?

Oswlek · Aug 31, 2014

Brady6 said:
I could respond to each and every thing you wrote here but I am not going to waste either of our time. I have realized something recently, I do not always need to convince the other poster that my opinion is the right opinion, more times than not what I post and many disagree with ends up being correct, so I am comfortable letting the future outcome determine the accuracy of my post. I also know that this debate is an uphill battle, because as I said before posters/fans mentally need to believe that Bill Belichick is the most significant piece to the success of this team, because if they allow themselves to believe it is actually Tom Brady they know that the window for success is closing a lot sooner than it is with Belichick. Jimmy Garopollo may develop into a starting QB, I personally am of the opinion that he will be traded in 2016 for a draft pick just like Ryan Mallett and they will draft another QB, one that is more likely to become the heir apparent to the greatest QB of all time. I cannot envision them pushing Brady out the door, the is the face of the franchise and a god in New England, they would capsize the boat with a move like that, and unless Brady is injured, which has only happen 1 time in 13 years I doubt Garopollo will start a game in the next 4 seasons (if he stays that long) and I do not think Belichick is going to sign Garopollo to a starter level contract before he even starts a game.

As much as I would like to believe that Belichick used the #62 pick in the draft to replace the GOAT QB without even a hiccup, I would also like to believe that he could replace Pat Chung with the #48 draft pick. TY Yates – 15/20 243 yards, 2 touchdowns, Colt McCoy – 22/29 321 yards, 2 touchdowns, those are some nice numbers by these 2 QBs this past week, which HOF QB will they be displacing?

When Bill can lead a team with a QB who hadn't started since high school to an 11-5 record, it seems pretty obvious to anyone without an agenda that he is the most important person. The only person more important than Bill is Bob Kraft.

Other than that your post confuses me because it doesn't really address anything I said. Did you just quote mine as a catch-all for the entire conversation?

Bruins29 · Aug 31, 2014

Brady6 said:
I do not always need to convince the other poster that my opinion is the right opinion, more times than not what I post and many disagree with ends up being correct,

I am just curious, what opinions have you offered that were directly challenged by someone intelligent here and found out to be definitively "correct"?

RayClay · Aug 31, 2014

Mogamedogz said:
Not sure why anyone would think that the Pats would hang on to TFB if/when his play slips to below that of Garropolo.

Nothing in this teams history suggests that they would. Age is catching up with our guy. It catches up to everyone. Like any athlete, TFB will try and hang on a season or two too long... But it wont be in a Pats uniform. And im sure Brady knows that, he's not a stupid guy by any means.

BEST case scenario IMHO, Brady has 2 Maybe (and a BIG maybe) 3 seasons left here. Id be absolutely shocked if he made it beyond that. I'd be much less shocked if it were less than what im projecting.

Because they have to pay him?...and he is at least one of the greatest QBs of all time?

I don't know money wise, but i wouldn't doubt somebody with his workout ethic and knowledge of nutition would still be better than average well into his 40s, minus an injury.

But, after this season, they have to pay him whether they use him or not.

Real World · Aug 31, 2014

Tom E. Curran. I'm guessing the "E" stands for "error" or "erroneous". Brady will be "gone", when Brady decides he's done, and retires.

RobertWeathers · Aug 31, 2014

RayClay said:
Because they have to pay him?...and he is at least one of the greatest QBs of all time?

I don't know money wise, but i wouldn't doubt somebody with his workout ethic and knowledge of nutition would still be better than average well into his 40s, minus an injury.

But, after this season, they have to pay him whether they use him or not.

The money paid to TB is a major point. Unless they redo of his deal, the 2017 season seems to be the most financially sensible season to cut him loose/trade him.

His main point is if JAG's play is > TB12's play, then from a production standpoint that would make sense to make the change.

As has been discussed, TB's eventual departure (retirement or otherwise) would require a delicate touch.

Even Joe Montana was traded... It could happen here.

RayClay · Aug 31, 2014

Patradomous said:
Brady will be asked to take a substantial pay cut. Especially if his skills are beginning to diminish. He will be cut. For good or bad its the Patriot way.
Jimmy G. already looks better than any QB 2nd to Brady since Brady been the #1qb. You can tell he has the it factor. Very cool and elusive in the pocket. He will have Brady's skill level in two years just not the head or experience. But he will be his replacement.

Negotiations will go like this.

Team: Even though your salary is guaranteed, we would like you to take a pay cut.

Tom: No.

Patradomous · Aug 31, 2014

Team: Even though your salary is guaranteed, we would like you to take a pay cut.

Tom: No

Team: Thanks for playing...cya.

Brady6 · Aug 31, 2014

Bruins29 said:
I am just curious, what opinions have you offered that were directly challenged by someone intelligent here and found out to be definitively "correct"?

If you are really asking this, question you I am disappointed that you do not read my posts before you quote them. I would suggest you go back and read them again, do your homework and do not just ask me for the answers. You will be hard pressed to find anything that I was not correct about and if you do, you will see that I admitted myself. You know how many people say they do not bring emotions into business, well I have a similar approach to what I write in here, and if I am allowing emotions to influence my thinking I generally admit it for the purpose of context. This makes me a minority on this board, most of what is written by posters is influenced by their emotions, so often times what I write is not well received because it is too literal and it upsets them hearing it, this leads to a lot of conflict, but when push comes to shove if you put away the emotion you would see what I write is accurate and logical, it is just not sensitive to others emotional state on the subject matter.

How is your holiday weekend going bud?

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