Curran: Brady 'almost certainly' gone before 2017

Fencer · Aug 30, 2014

For anybody who thinks BB wouldn't cut a popular local QB, or a player who he loves to coach -- look at his track record and think again.

TBR · Aug 30, 2014

Fencer said:
For anybody who thinks BB wouldn't cut a popular local QB, or a player who he loves to coach -- look at his track record and think again.

There is no other top 3 all time QB in his track record

The situations with Bledsoe, Milloy are not comparable at all, IMO.

PatsWickedPissah · Aug 30, 2014

IF TFB cap cost >> his value as starter & next QB up is NOT substantially worse,
Then TFB is cut/retires/traded
Impossible to predict the year
Absolutely possible to predict it will happen as he ages
I'm predicting sometime in his 40s

supafly · Aug 30, 2014

Fencer said:
For anybody who thinks BB wouldn't cut a popular local QB, or a player who he loves to coach -- look at his track record and think again.

I would have to assume that Belichick is smart enough to assess each player individually.

If Brady is having a dropoff and/or Jimmy G is really taking off and proving himself in actual NFL live reps, then it may/will be considered; otherwise, the argument that "he's done it in the past" seems kind of weak when used by itself.

One year after he's extended and works miracles to take us to the AFCCG and we're discussing this? It makes me feel kind of dirty.

Brady6 · Aug 30, 2014

jmt57 said:
Usually this line is only trotted out by fans of other teams that are seeking a way to discredit the success of the Patriots; I'm surprised that you would play that card.

Belichick inherited a very bad Cleveland team that was old and bloated with contracts that needed to be dumped. Despite the bare cupboard, the Browns doubled their number of wins in his first season as head coach. The following year they were doomed with injuries, having to start three quarterbacks - including the immortal Todd Philcox - yet still managed to increase their win total.

In Belichick's third season he finally had enough of Bernie Kosar, and replaced him with Vinny Testaverde. However, Testaverde was injured and he had to revert to Kosar. Cleveland's record remained the same as it was the previous season, 7-9, one win below .500.

The next year the Browns improved again, winning four more games than the previous season. They made the postseason, and won their first playoff game in five years. As it turned out, they have not won a playoff game in the twenty years since that victory over Bill Parcell's Patriots.

The next season the Browns started out 3-1, with their only loss in week one at Foxboro by three points. At the time they looked like they were one of the best teams in football. Then Art Modell announced he was moving the team, and chaos ensued. End result was a 5-11 season, and Belichick was fired.

His two other seasons without Brady were his first with the Patriots, in what was obviously a rebuilding year, and the 11-win 2008 season.

Belichick admitted that he should have handled the Kosar situation better. He learned from it. As far as the final season in Cleveland, there was no precedence in sports to draw knowledge from. Again, it was another valuable learning experience - but I don't know if there are/were many (if any) coaches that could have held the team together in that circumstance; let's not forget it was exacerbated by a meddling owner that didn't have his back. He left a very good team behind, and one that was well set for the future. For example, one trade that he had made for the following year was a draft pick that turned out to be Ray Lewis.

To me the notion that "there is nothing to suggest" that Belichick would ever achieve anything without Brady is extremely shallow, superficial and off-base.

It might be time to read Halberstam's The Education of a Coach, and view NFL Films' Cleveland '95.

You know I think that the implication that Belichick could continue to succeed without Brady essentially slights Brady in the same way that you feel I am slighting Belichick. I think that posters are OK with that slight of Brady because the likelihood is that Belichick will be here longer than Brady so they are OK with diminishing Brady’s significance because it makes them more hopeful for the future. I think that is wrong, I think to believe that having the best player in the game at the most important position for over a decade puts you in the position to succeed, so believing that Belichick will continue to have the level of success he has had with Brady with another QB is baseless, in fact history would suggest that he will not.

If you want to talk about what Belichick did in Cleveland, OK, I agree, he did a lot to improve that team, he is a great coach, but his record is still a historical indication of what his record would be without Brady. My speaking to it is not an attempt to diminish the success of the Patriots it is an attempt to open the eyes of the posters on this board who are either ignorant or arrogant enough to think that Jimmy Garopollo with below average size and a below average arm from a small school is going to win 12 games a year and go to 5 super bowls in 12 seasons while winning 3 of them because Bill Belichick is the coach.

TriplecHamp · Aug 30, 2014

I always include how Peyton Manning was dumped for Andrew Luck in my "why Manning can't even be compared to Brady" debates so I hope to god Brady never plays in another uniform.

Brady6 · Aug 30, 2014

rochrist said:
If BB didn't draft Brady, chances are he goes undrafted and never even PLAYS in the NFL.

Wow, that is way off base, you are calling Belichick god and saying Brady would not even have a NFL career if not for Belichick. Do you think the things that have made Brady the greatest QB ever would not be the same things that would have led him to find his way onto an NFL roster and succeed? Talk about hypocritical; I am slighting Belichick and you just wrote that Brady would be working 9-5 if not for Belichick.

Brady6 · Aug 30, 2014

rochrist said:
Much as I love TFB, he does not run the Pats. BB runs the Pats.

Grade the roster around Brady last season; tell me what that team does with Andy Dalton as the QB? How many of the 7 wins that we had last season by a touchdown or less would we have won without Brady at the helm?

I get it by believing that the success is primarily Belichick you can believe this team will continue to dominate when Brady retires, but Brady is a huge difference maker, one of the biggest (if not the biggest) of any player on any roster in the NFL.

chasa · Aug 30, 2014

I think if brady wins another couple of titles between now and then he might walk away.

Marinlik · Aug 30, 2014

Brady6 said:
Grade the roster around Brady last season; tell me what that team does with Andy Dalton as the QB? How many of the 7 wins that we had last season by a touchdown or less would we have won without Brady at the helm?

I get it by believing that the success is primarily Belichick you can believe this team will continue to dominate when Brady retires, but Brady is a huge difference maker, one of the biggest (if not the biggest) of any player on any roster in the NFL.

I believe that the team will continue to be sucessful after Brady if BB stays. BB builds a very good, complete team. Don't kid yourself. Brady is not the single reason we win so many games. BBs ability to use all the players in roles that fit them helps us a lot. He is good to find that small part that can use a player to their maximum ability while avoiding the stuff that they are bad t. BB will use an offensive system that fits his QB and not try to force them to be something that they are not. BB continuously rebuilds the team. There are no real rebuilding years because he continously replaces old players. A lot of our very good players are young.

Brady is amazing. Best QB that I've ever seen. But he is not the only reason we have been so good for so long now. BB should have a big part of the credit for that.

I also love how you talk about Garoppolos measurable flaws as reasons that he can never be good or win 12 games a season. We all know that you are a measurables junkie and that you often can't look past that to see the actual player. But you do know how Brady looked coming out of college, right? He certainly didn't look like a guy who would become the best ever. You could easily give 10, or more, very good reasons for why Brady would never suceed in the NFL. Not saying that Garoppolo is a future top QB in the league. But those numbers mean nothing. Maybe those measurables that you are so obsessed about isn't everything(you should have learned that by now)

Fencer · Aug 30, 2014

supafly said:
I would have to assume that Belichick is smart enough to assess each player individually.

If Brady is having a dropoff and/or Jimmy G is really taking off and proving himself in actual NFL live reps, then it may/will be considered; otherwise, the argument that "he's done it in the past" seems kind of weak when used by itself.

One year after he's extended and works miracles to take us to the AFCCG and we're discussing this? It makes me feel kind of dirty.

I agree. But I was responding to a line of discussion that had recently arisen in the thread suggesting Brady was somehow immune on general principle. Neither BB's nor Kraft's track record is consistent with that claim.

Fencer · Aug 30, 2014

TBR said:
There is no other top 3 all time QB in his track record

The situations with Bledsoe, Milloy are not comparable at all, IMO.

I was thinking of Kosar even ahead of Bledsoe.

Fencer · Aug 30, 2014

rochrist said:
I don't think it will be his play, as such, declining so much as it will be injuries catching up. As you note, he's already lost some quickness at avoiding the rush. That isn't likely to improve over time, and that likely means getting hit more often, or at least not LESS often. And you don't bounce back from injuries as quickly as you get older. I suspect that with each year, smallish injuries that keep him out of a couple of games here and there are likely to start appearing.

The question is when do you cross a line that says those things are no longer supportable with a team that's trying to win it all every year.

You're right that age goes with slowed healing, and hence a greater average level of injury. And QB is a position where small injuries can matter significantly. Indeed, I think those small injuries are a big part of inconsistent QB play -- for every small injury you need to concentrate and perhaps practice your way around it, and that doesn't always work out as smoothly as you'd like.

Brady6 · Aug 30, 2014

Marinlik said:
I believe that the team will continue to be sucessful after Brady if BB stays. BB builds a very good, complete team. Don't kid yourself. Brady is not the single reason we win so many games. BBs ability to use all the players in roles that fit them helps us a lot. He is good to find that small part that can use a player to their maximum ability while avoiding the stuff that they are bad t. BB will use an offensive system that fits his QB and not try to force them to be something that they are not. BB continuously rebuilds the team. There are no real rebuilding years because he continously replaces old players. A lot of our very good players are young.

I think you are way off. You do not see that Brady allows Belichick to make the mistakes he does, do you think that this team would overcome these high draft pick failures without Tom Brady as the QB?

- Josh Boyce
- Jake Bequette
- Tavon Wilson
- Ras-I Dowling
- Jermaine Cunningham
- Taylor Price
- Ron Brace
- Darius Butler
- Brandon Tate
- Terence Wheatley
- Shawn Crable

Heck this week we released 1/3 of our draft class from this draft. How about the Fanene, Lloyd, Wilson, Thomas, etc. free agent signings do you think those would just be water under the bridge if not for Brady? How about giving a murderer a $40M contract and letting the leading receiver in the NFL walk, do you think that is easily overcome with Garopollo throwing the football? You are wrong and would have to know very little about football to believe that, because no other team with those types of mistakes has overcome it recently.

Brady is amazing. Best QB that I've ever seen. But he is not the only reason we have been so good for so long now. BB should have a big part of the credit for that.

Brady is the hardest working player on the team, you know when the best most important player is the hardest worker what that does, it makes the other players do the same thing. Players like Edelman model themselves after Brady right down to their haircuts.

I also love how you talk about Garoppolos measurable flaws as reasons that he can never be good or win 12 games a season. We all know that you are a measurables junkie and that you often can't look past that to see the actual player. But you do know how Brady looked coming out of college, right? He certainly didn't look like a guy who would become the best ever. You could easily give 10, or more, very good reasons for why Brady would never suceed in the NFL. Not saying that Garoppolo is a future top QB in the league. But those numbers mean nothing. Maybe those measurables that you are so obsessed about isn't everything(you should have learned that by now)

I like Garopollo, think he has a chance to be a solid NFL QB, but let me tell you from an experience perspective, competition perspective, size perspective, and arm strength perspective the odds are against him, so your assumption that he will succeed because he had success in the preseason, that is just ignorant on your part. What do you think lighting in the bottle just repeats, the replacement for the GOAT QB just happened to be the #62 pick in the 2014 draft because Belichick made it? That is some heavy hope you have here, have you seen the list of second round misses I put above, but yeah for sure we drafted the next HOF QB, trade Brady. You are off your rocker if you think this team is going to move forward without any down period when Brady is gone, completely off your rocker, out of your mind.

Maybe I should dislike your post and really show you what I think…

You and @rochrist use the dislike and disagree button like no other posters on this board, I am beginning to think you are brothers…

obgod3 · Aug 30, 2014

I'm sorry guys but the whole notion of this is so dumb I think I'm dumber for reading it.

Brady will,never get cut, ever.

rochrist · Aug 30, 2014

Brady6 said:
Wow, that is way off base, you are calling Belichick god and saying Brady would not even have a NFL career if not for Belichick. Do you think the things that have made Brady the greatest QB ever would not be the same things that would have led him to find his way onto an NFL roster and succeed? Talk about hypocritical; I am slighting Belichick and you just wrote that Brady would be working 9-5 if not for Belichick.

Try reading what I wrote instead of what passes for it in you own mind.

Everyone knows, or ought to know, how razor thin the margin is for sucess or failure in the NFL. There is no magic 'greatness will find a way' sauce. It requires OPPORTUNITY and those can be very difficult to come by. If, let's say, TB did not get drafted but signed as an UDFA, and let's also remember what he was coming out of school...

If you seriously think there aren't front offices who would overlook what he /might/ become, then you're an idiot. So, you get signed at the wrong place, cut, and there's every possibility that that's it for you. Or maybe you get picked up somewhere else but you're behind an entrenched QB who /doesn't/ get his lung punctured and doesn't have a coach willing to dump him in favor of a kid who had trouble holding on to the starter's job in college.

There's a good deal of luck involved with being in the right place at exactly the right time which /then/ allows your talents to get you where you want to go.

BradyFTW! · Aug 30, 2014

robertweathers said:
Its a silly discussion. We've seen what bad ownership does to franchises and good coaches. You could argue that without Kraft's financial support, solid organizational and management philosophy, quite possibly Belichick would be a the GoAT DC somewhere AFTER he was fired from the NYJ in 200x.

We already saw Belichick handles bad owners. He quits pretty much instantly. Everything Belichick has done here reflects back on kraft to some capacity. Back in 2000, there weren't a lot of owners who saw BB for what he was, let alone were willing to let him run a team his way. Luckily for us, we have a visionary owner who understands the value of knowing what you don't know and letting smarter people than you do their jobs.

fair catch fryar · Aug 30, 2014

To be honest, this really isn't that prophetic on Curran's part. I too am optimistic about the prospects for Garappolo, but for crying out loud, we've only seen him play in a few preseason games and he looked somewhat poised and capable. He could be here in 2017 or he could be selling insurance. I do know this though, if Brady is still performing at a high level in 2017, he'll be here. The realist in me tends to believe the odds are not in Brady's favor to make it totally healthy to 2017. For those of that have experienced reaching 40, your body definitely doesn't hold up as well as it did even at 35. He may even do an about-face and decide to retire before then. I like Curran, but this article doesn't really tell me anything new.

Brady6 · Aug 30, 2014

rochrist said:
Try reading what I wrote instead of what passes for it in you own mind.

Everyone knows, or ought to know, how razor thin the margin is for sucess or failure in the NFL. There is no magic 'greatness will find a way' sauce. It requires OPPORTUNITY and those can be very difficult to come by. If, let's say, TB did not get drafted but signed as an UDFA, and let's also remember what he was coming out of school...

View attachment 6874

If you seriously think there aren't front offices who would overlook what he /might/ become, then you're an idiot. So, you get signed at the wrong place, cut, and there's every possibility that that's it for you. Or maybe you get picked up somewhere else but you're behind an entrenched QB who /doesn't/ get his lung punctured and doesn't have a coach willing to dump him in favor of a kid who had trouble holding on to the starter's job in college.

There's a good deal of luck involved with being in the right place at exactly the right time which /then/ allows your talents to get you where you want to go.

Tom Brady was projected as a sixth round draft pick whose stock was on the rise predraft. He was taken where he was projected to go, so your suggestion that he would have went undrafted is off, there were 55 players selected after Tom Brady that is almost 2 full rounds worth of players.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=189&draftyear=2000&genpos=QB

I am not going to keep going in circles with you because you do not make any sense, you think this team will succeed the same way with Garopollo, I think you are a bigger fan of Garopollo than Brady based on every interaction we have had in recent weeks, so I not going to waste my time, we will see at some point in the future what the outcome is.

fair catch fryar · Aug 30, 2014

rochrist said:
If BB didn't draft Brady, chances are he goes undrafted and never even PLAYS in the NFL.

No way. In past interviews when Brady talks about the night of the 2000 draft, he states that he was already planning in his mind that he would have to go the UDFA route before the Pats called him. Someone would've signed him and never looked back.

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