Curran: Brady 'almost certainly' gone before 2017

Brady6 said:

It's not disparaging Belichick. It is pointing out the reality of a situation, if that reality reflects a losing record for Belichick as a head coach without Brady it is what it is. Don't say I'm disparaging him for pointing it out. Brady is the key cog in this teams success over the past decade, Belichick is second.

Click to expand...

Brady played great, the Pats won and BB looked like a genius. BB picked Brady, developed him, built a strong team around him and he put up great numbers and won. Circular argument.

They both benefited from each other's influence on their success.

Bruins29 said:

Now that your post was pointed out by a few people I am re-reading this and trying to digest it. I know where you are going here. But are you saying that we should just shave off 5 wins from each of BB's seasons to get a better determination of his real accomplishments?

Just take away 5 wins? You do realize that that is just about 1/3 of the whole season.

I understand not liking bb and all that, and the drafting, and some trades,....but now we just shave off wins?

Click to expand...

Who said I did not like Belichick? I love Belichick, he is my favorite coach of all time, but he does not have a winning record without Brady in his head coaching career. I just think it is ridiculous to think the most significant piece in the success of the team is going to be pushed out the door, and if Belichick does that, he will bring his own demise. The this is a business only goes so far, because you know what happens to business that do not show appreciation for their employees, the good employees do not want to work for them and they end up with garbage employees.

The 5 wins point is variable, as I said last season in particular without Brady I think we would have won 8-9 less games, other seasons they difference without Brady could have been as little as 1-3 games. I was just pointing out that leading a team without Brady to 5 less victories than it had the season prior and not making the playoffs does not give me the confidence it gives others to just push Brady out the door because we can do it without him, because if Garopollo took over this season and lost 5 more games than last year we would have an under 500 record. It is not perfect logic, and certainly not guaranteed but I think it is fair to say that Tom Brady amounts to a differential of 4-5 victories, look at Green Bay with Rodgers last season, etc.

RayClay said:

He added 10 wins to the 2008 season, right? That's a 21 win season, which is pretty damn good.

Click to expand...

Belichick does not win games, he puts his players in position to win games, if his players do not execute he does not win, he has been fortunate to have the best player at the most important position executing for the past decade plus.

Brady6 said:

Belichick does not win games, he puts his players in position to win games, if his players do not execute he does not win, he has been fortunate to have the best player at the most important position executing for the past decade plus.

Click to expand...

And he drafted this player after every other team had 100 tries to get him.

Also, how many games did Tom Brady win without BB?

robertweathers said:

Brady played great, the Pats won and BB looked like a genius. BB picked Brady, developed him, built a strong team around him and he put up great numbers and won. Circular argument.

They both benefited from each other's influence on their success.

Click to expand...

I agree, but if I am ranking them in order of significance to the Patriots success, I go –

1. Tom Brady
2. Bill Belichick
3. Robert Kraft

I do not want #2 pushing #1 out the door any more than I want #3 pushing #2 out the door.

Bruins29 said:

Also, how many games did Tom Brady win without BB?

Click to expand...

He has never had the opportunity so that is moot.

Brady6 said:

Belichick does not win games, .

Click to expand...

On the stats pages for the NFL there is a column next to coaches that says W, which I am assuming means Wins. You should let them know that it should no be there.

Brady6 said:

He has never had the opportunity so that is moot.

Click to expand...

Well exactly! Since we dont know this, spinning it the other way and saying BB's success is only due to TB is also moot.

Bruins29 said:

And he drafted this player after every other team had 100 tries to get him.

Click to expand...

I am not saying Belichick is not a great coach, but Brady is also a great QB and in my opinion his significance to the success is higher with Belichick being the second most significant person to the teams success. That is my opinion if you think it is the opposite feel free to voice that, but I am going to stay with my opinion either way.

Don't neglect that coaches also develop players and put them in the best positions for each players unique skill sets. Look at successful coaches at any level. Players come and go but good programs remain good programs as long as the coaches are there.

I don't know what to think of this, but I've never been happier to take everything Curran says with a huge grain of salt. Not want. Think I'll go ahead and just put this thread on ignore and see if I can pretend it never existed.

Bruins29 said:

Well exactly! Since we dont know this, spinning it the other way and saying BB's success is only due to TB is also moot.

Click to expand...

I never said it is only; see you exaggerate things when you interrupt them; I said Brady is the most important person to the team’s success and Belichick is second. That is not the equivalent of me saying Belichick is only good because of Brady.

Brady6 said:

I am not saying Belichick is not a great coach, but Brady is also a great QB and in my opinion his significance to the success is higher with Belichick being the second most significant person to the teams success. That is my opinion if you think it is the opposite feel free to voice that, but I am going to stay with my opinion either way.

Click to expand...

Nobody has a problem with your opinion. What I thought was odd is the method you used to determine BB ACTUAL SUCCESS RATE by using a mathematical formula that you just made up by shaving 5 wins off each season because apparently TB is a guarantee 5 wins.

I dont think you can just do that and come to a conclusion that would have really any credibility. Now, if we at least had TB's record without BB as his coach, and there was some comparative analysis then perhaps you could make a case.

We dont, so you really cant. And I am not some BB worshiper. You are just setting a precedent, and you cant do that.

jays52 said:

Don't neglect that coaches also develop players and put them in the best positions for each players unique skill sets. Look at successful coaches at any level. Players come and go but good programs remain good programs as long as the coaches are there.

Click to expand...

There can only be one person who is most influential in the success of the Patriots, I think it is Brady and Belichick is second, that is not a slight on Belichick anymore than someone saying Belichick is more significant is a slight on Brady.

Bruins29 said:

Nobody has a problem with your opinion. What I thought was odd is the method you used to determine BB ACTUAL SUCCESS RATE by using a mathematical formula that you just made up by shaving 5 wins off each season because apparently TB is a guarantee 5 wins.

I dont think you can just do that and come to a conclusion that would have really any credibility. Now, if we at least had TB's record without BB as his coach, and there was some comparative analysis then perhaps you could make a case.

We dont, so you really cant. And I am not some BB worshiper. You are just setting a precedent, and you cant do that.

Click to expand...

Like I said what I pointed out was an example it is was not an accurate estimation of what would occur, it was to show what would happen if we lost 5 more game than the previous year like we did from 2007 to 2008 and what our record would look like. I am not saying Brady is worth 5 wins, it was just “what if” scenario.

Brady6 said:

I never said it is only; see you exaggerate things when you interrupt them; I said Brady is the most important person to the team’s success and Belichick is second. That is not the equivalent of me saying Belichick is only good because of Brady.

Click to expand...

ok, I just dont think it is as clear cut as you think. And the stats and proof back this up. I am not saying you are wrong. You could be right.

Nooo!!! i want Brady to play forever and ever

Brady6 said:

There can only be one person who is most influential in the success of the Patriots, I think it is Brady and Belichick is second, that is not a slight on Belichick anymore than someone saying Belichick is more significant is a slight on Brady.

Click to expand...

Not saying it was a slight at all man, you're certainly entitled to your opinion and I don't think you conveyed it in a negative way at all.

My philosophy on quarterbacks as they relate to championships in the salary cap era NFL is that you need a top-10 (let's call it an 85 in madden rating speak) quarterback at an advantageous to the team (usually that means rookie deal) salary and a good defense. There's tons of examples. Championship era NE, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Seattle are all applicable.

I think having Brady kept the team in contention during the rebuilding years at the end of the last decade and very beginning of this one, but coach and defense are more important in my mind than quarterbacks.

Patjew said:

Yo

You may be right on both points, but I still stand by my opinion.

Click to expand...

Patjew said:

Yo

You may be right on both points, but I still stand by my opinion.

Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I do think because TB is a face of the franchise, BB will involve RK in any exit discussions or contract re-dos.

Maybe in 2017 BB goes to RK and says he wants to re-do TBs deal (cap reasons, etc.) or thinks TB is done and can't run the offense the way JAG can. Kraft will "agree" (because he won't under cut his coach's authority) but will insist on as much of a graceful, respectful, appreciative exit as possible.

It is my understanding that Kraft has "led" the negotiations with TB in the past and this may be the most appropriate approach.

I think between the three of them and how they carry themselves, it'll end gracefully...

Either way, it's be a sad day but one to look back on with a lot of great memories.