Logan Mankins Traded

1960Pats said:

Thanks shmessy for at least attempting to be respectful.

Did the Pats sign the deal that made Mankins the highest paid OL? I think they did. If he had accidentally signed a contract that made him underpaid the Pats sure wouldn't go to him and ask him to rework it. Right?

I don't agree with that kind of treatment to guys like Mankins and Wilfork. All they are asking is for the team to live up to the agreement that they signed. If a player went to the team asking them to rework a written deal they'd laugh at him, unless THEY determined that it helped the team (saved money).

I choose to continue to be a fan of the New England Patriots, just as I have been since the day they were born. I also choose to reserve the right to be critical of them when they make a move I don't like, on the field or off.

Now, if some assclown Pats fan wants to make it personal and start with the name-calling bullcrap, simply because I don't like this move, then that's their problem not mine.

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That is life in the NFL. The Pats almost signed Kevin Williams this year because the Vikes did the same thing to him. The Broncos got DeMarcus Ware because the Cowboys cut him because his contract was too high and he wasn't living up to it. It may suck, but the Pats did nothing that most every other team in the NFL does with their fading stars who are no longer worth their contract.

Bruins29 said:

Awwww, poor baby.

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You're the one who's crying because you think I disagreed with one of your posts.

Maybe you should cry to one of the mods to come rescue you from the mean old man.

1960Pats said:

You're the one who's crying because you think I disagreed with one of your posts.

Maybe you should cry to one of the mods to come rescue you from the mean old man.

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Salary cap lol

You think I need mods to help me with a person like you. You are a clueless.

Wow.

Rob0729 said:

That is life in the NFL. The Pats almost signed Kevin Williams this year because the Vikes did the same thing to him. The Broncos got DeMarcus Ware because the Cowboys cut him because his contract was too high and he wasn't living up to it. It may suck, but the Pats did nothing that most every other team in the NFL does with their fading stars who are no longer worth their contract.

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Thanks Rob.

For me, it all depends on the player. I couldn't have cared less when they let Asante Samuel go. I wasn't here expressing my discontent with that move. But Logan Mankins is different. Just like Big Vince would have been if he didn't get hurt last year.

There should be a way to avoid getting to the point where a player gets a lucrative contract and gets shipped out because of it.

1960Pats said:

Thanks Rob.

For me, it all depends on the player. I couldn't have cared less when they let Asante Samuel go. I wasn't here expressing my discontent with that move. But Logan Mankins is different. Just like Big Vince would have been if he didn't get hurt last year.

There should be a way to avoid getting to the point where a player gets a lucrative contract and gets shipped out because of it.

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You take away the emotional attachment to Mankins and you will see they traded away an average to above average guard who is 32 years old for a fourth round pick and a young TE in his second year with stud potential. You take the name off his jersey and the trade isn't nearly as devastating as some make it out to be.

Well Rob, that really is the problem isn't it.

I know we're supposed to root for the jersey, but I can't just do that. There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't want Brandon Merriweather off this team. I hated the fact that the cheap head-hunting ****y was on the Pats. I couldn't stand him.

1960Pats said:

I know we're supposed to root for the jersey, but I can't just do that..

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Then why are you here in patsfans.com?

1960Pats said:

Well Rob, that really is the problem isn't it.

I know we're supposed to root for the jersey, but I can't just do that. There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't want Brandon Merriweather off this team. I hated the fact that the cheap head-hunting ***** was on the Pats. I couldn't stand him.

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This is the NFL. Players who get to finish out their careers in only one team's uniform like Bruschi, Troy (although he did play one preseason as a Jet after Parcells cut him), Light, and Faulk are rare. Look around the league. Peyton Manning is finishing his career in Denver after making Indy go from a joke to top team in the NFL. On his team is former perennial DPOY candidate that was dumped by the Cowboys. Kevin Williams was a staple for the Vikes and now he is on the Seahawks.

If you cannot get past the fact that you need to root for the jersey and not the player, you are going to be consistently upset. Sentimentality does not win games in the NFL.

Jackson 2 said:

If you honestly feel that way, then go root for Chicago (unceremoniously ditched Urlacher), or San Fran (bye Montana for Young) or GB (see ya Brett for Rodgers) or the Balt Colts (Unitas to SD) or the Jets (Namath to the Rams) or the Colts(Manning to Denver) and on and on and on. Logan Mankin is a freaking GUARD... not a QB, not a left tackle, not a MLB, not a CB...I get it...you're pissed as I was on Tuesday. That's why you're not running the team and I'm not. If you can't get your panties out of a bunch, then you do, as you suggest, need to go root for some other team. Just buyer beware: if you choose one which doesn't make these type of hard decisions, you'll be a fan of a loser. Good luck enjoying that.

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I never said that I wasn't going to root for them, I said it was harder to root for them.

Instead, I will continue to root for them and be critical when they make a move I don't like. Just like I did when Belichick pulled that awful 4th and 2 bonehead play in Indy that cost us a playoff game, or the jackass decision to bench Wes Welker for disciplinary reasons at the beginning of a playoff game, or when he dumped Richard Seymour for future considerations and we got humbled by the running game in the playoffs and lost.

We have one of the greatest QBs who ever played, possibly the best, and the Pats keep looking to build for the future when he won't be around anymore. That strategy COULD BE why we've lost every year since 2004.

skspikex2 said:

Then why are you here in patsfans.com?

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Because I choose to be.

Why are you here?

I wonder how much the Pats wanted to cut Mankins' salary. Lower than Connolly? I wonder if Mankins would still be here if his salaries were not back-loaded. The flat deal would have allowed the Pats to carry over $1.5 million more into 2014.

Pats never "agreed" to pay mankins anything except the signing bonus. Salaries are the price they have to pay to keep him off the FA market.

It's the teams option though. They can cut the contract at any point.

That's the way contracts are. That's the structure the union agreed to.

Being upset that the patriots didn't pay the salary they agreed to is nonsensical.

1960Pats said:

Thanks shmessy for at least attempting to be respectful.

Did the Pats sign the deal that made Mankins the highest paid OL? I think they did. If he had accidentally signed a contract that made him underpaid the Pats sure wouldn't go to him and ask him to rework it. Right?

I don't agree with that kind of treatment to guys like Mankins and Wilfork. All they are asking is for the team to live up to the agreement that they signed. If a player went to the team asking them to rework a written deal they'd laugh at him, unless THEY determined that it helped the team (saved money).

I choose to continue to be a fan of the New England Patriots, just as I have been since the day they were born. I also choose to reserve the right to be critical of them when they make a move I don't like, on the field or off.
e
Now, if some assclown Pats fan wants to make it personal and start with the name-calling bullcrap, simply because I don't like this move, then that's their problem not mine.

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from one old guy to another HERE is the point you are obviously missing in your rant. Every player with half a brain should understand how their contract works. They all very happily accept the huge bonus check they get up front. Why do they THEN complain when the cap number that that huge bonus creates becomes larger than their contribution on the field after a few years.

Its not like this is a new phenomenon. Its been like this for over 20 years. It was NEVER about the $6MM he was going to be paid, it was ALWAYS about the 11MM cap number. This was never about being cheap or mistreating a valued, but declining player. It was simply ANOTHER case of NFL cap economics. Mankins had to have know he wasn't playing up to that %11MM cap number and he simply made the choice NOT to do what was necessary to lower it. I support that choice, just as I support the decision by the organization to do what was in the best interests of the team.

patfanken said:

from one old guy to another HERE is the point you are obviously missing in your rant. Every player with half a brain should understand how their contract works. They all very happily accept the huge bonus check they get up front. Why do they THEN complain when the cap number that that huge bonus creates becomes larger than their contribution on the field after a few years.

Its not like this is a new phenomenon. Its been like this for over 20 years. It was NEVER about the $6MM he was going to be paid, it was ALWAYS about the 11MM cap number. This was never about being cheap or mistreating a valued, but declining player. It was simply ANOTHER case of NFL cap economics. Mankins had to have know he wasn't playing up to that %11MM cap number and he simply made the choice NOT to do what was necessary to lower it. I support that choice, just as I support the decision by the organization to do what was in the best interests of the team.

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Part of that 11m is fixed. The marginal cost is 6m salary. If they thought he was worth that they'd likely keep him. As it is they have 8m in dead money to take if I read that cotrectly.

Sunk costs shouldn't matter when keeping or cutting a player.

1960Pats said:

I
We have one of the greatest QBs who ever played, possibly the best, and the Pats keep looking to build for the future when he won't be around anymore. That strategy COULD BE why we've lost every year since 2004.

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Or maybe it was because Logan Mankins was a turnstile in the Superbowl.

Oh, that is right, he is good guy, and had a contract.

Bruins29 said:

Or maybe it was because Logan Mankins was a turnstile in the Superbowl.

Oh, that is right, he is good guy, and had a contract.

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just a couple of months after signing this contract he did his turnstile routine against the jest. that was one of the most embarrassing losses in franchise history IMO, and LM was a major contributor to the debacle. he had a history of playing poorly in big games. I won't miss him

shmessy said:

There's no harm in being honest and stating one doesn't know.
Try it someday.

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Not sure why you think I'm being dishonest about my opinion. Maybe you should look at both sides of the argument first.

Me saying Wright's production will decline this year is me being honest. Just an opinion.

Robo arguing against my opinion but then predicting a number that will be a decline from last year is him being full of crap.

1960Pats said:

When they dump guys like Mankins over money but reward the scumbags, yes, very much yes. How do you know they're better without Mankins but with Wright and a 4th round pick?

And why is it okay for them to come to a player and ask him to redo his signed contract, but when a player does that or even just makes them live up to the agreement they signed, they drop him like a hot potato?

Sorry if it bothers some of you, but when they dump great people like Logan Mankins it makes the Pats koolaid taste just a little bitter.

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Answer the question? Were you or were you not aware that the NFL operates under a hard salary cap and exceeding it is not allowed?

condon84 said:

Not sure why you think I'm being dishonest about my opinion. Maybe you should look at both sides of the argument first.

Me saying Wright's production will decline this year is me being honest. Just an opinion.

Robo arguing against my opinion but then predicting a number that will be a decline from last year is him being full of crap.

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Stop it. You are embarrassing yourself. Just because I don't want to play your little prediction game doesn't mean I am predicting that Wright will do worse this year.

Just to stop this BS. Just go with my high end of 70. I just don't care. That way if he gets 30-50 catches you can declare victory.

I was honest with my predictions. You just cannot accept it because although I think he will improve the passing game, I am just not sure how much at this point. That is why I gave a range.

The ironic thing, as a fan, you will be rooting for wright to fail all year just so you can be right.

You know what? No need for him to be an "average to good" guard. He was a good guard.

It is still possible for his value to the Pats to be less than the amount he cost them (in cap space etc.)

Tim Wright has some promise but that doesn't make him a lock to be the next Hernandez without the police record. He is a young TE with some promise.

A fourth rounder in next year's draft is a fourth rounder in next year's draft (or through some sort of alchemy, a first in 3 years LOL...)

It's a deal - I think it's all on the table. Me, I'm a root-for-the-laundry guy. I am fully aware that my love for any given NFL player is unrequited. If there were some sort of radio station contest to hang out with any of them for a day, I wouldn't enter it -- because the first thing they did when I was out of earshot would be to say "Thank God that **** is over." They're not my pals. They're not my buddies. I can admire how they comport themselves on the field and even in the world off the field that they inhabit and I don't. But I don't delude myself that they're my buddies. I want the Pats to win, b/c I am a fan. They want the Pats to win b/c they are the Pats.

But every damn week in a football season I will be pulling for them in every game and screaming at every call that goes against them and all the rest of it. Cuz football is irrational.

But damn, this "I really loved player X" thing just doesn't grab me. My heart will sink when Brady hangs 'em up. Groesse gedillah. Worst case scenario, the Pats fall off a cliff. I will be right there (well, in front of the TV anyway.) More likely, there will be a new era, and I will be right there, and maybe, just maybe, we'll have our Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young in the wings... and I will be right there.

Come on people, be grownups. They're not your buddies, they're your team... yeah I root for the laundry.