Jason Cole: Mankins refused renegotiation twice

Rob0729 said:

The Bucs are at least on paper really far away from being a Super Bowl contender and he only has so many years left. The Pats are a legitimate Super Bowl contender. The question is if the Pats win the Super Bowl and he spends his final days in the NFL on a mediocre team, was the money or getting a Super Bowl ring more important to him. Don't forget unlike Wilfork (who did renegotiate to try to end his career here and be assured he would be in the hunt for another ring this season), he doesn't have a Super Bowl ring.

Click to expand...

If he cared about any of that he would have taken the paycut.

Marqui said:

If he cared about any of that he would have taken the paycut.

Click to expand...

I don't know he hasn't made that much money in his career

Rob0729 said:

The Bucs are at least on paper really far away from being a Super Bowl contender and he only has so many years left. The Pats are a legitimate Super Bowl contender. The question is if the Pats win the Super Bowl and he spends his final days in the NFL on a mediocre team, was the money or getting a Super Bowl ring more important to him. Don't forget unlike Wilfork (who did renegotiate to try to end his career here and be assured he would be in the hunt for another ring this season), he doesn't have a Super Bowl ring.

Mankins seemed to look at money more as a respect thing than a cash grab. He seems to lead a rather simple life for a guy in his income bracket. But getting a ring may be something he is still longing for in his career more than anything else.

Click to expand...

Didn't wilfork get a ring with the 2004 team or are you talking about mankins?

Marqui said:

If he cared about any of that he would have taken the paycut.

Click to expand...

Not if he let his emotions get in the way. People do it all the time. They get upset about something make a decision and then later go on to regret it later.

Not saying that this is the case with Mankins. But there is always a chance that he will end up regretting his decision to stick to his guns down the road.

Archeryaddict12 said:

Didn't wilfork get a ring with the 2004 team or are you talking about mankins?

Click to expand...

Mankins

Archeryaddict12 said:

Didn't wilfork get a ring with the 2004 team or are you talking about mankins?

Click to expand...

I am saying that Wilfork has one and Mankins doesn't. I said unlike Wilfork who has a ring, Mankins doesn't have a ring.

robertweathers said:

Everyone's situation is different. According to LM, winning and playing with great teammates is very important to him.

In my opinion, being paid what you worth ranks higher on his hierarchy of priorities.

Doesn't make him a bad person and I have nothing against him for taking the negotiation positions he has with the team over the years.

Click to expand...

Well, if Mankins wanted to be paid what he is worth, he would have taken a pay cut. Just saying.

He isn't worth his salary anymore.

Rob0729 said:

I am saying that Wilfork has one and Mankins doesn't. I said unlike Wilfork who has a ring, Mankins doesn't have a ring.

Click to expand...

Hard to believe Mankins doesn't have a ring but true.

Rob0729 said:

Well, if Mankins wanted to be paid what he is worth, he would have taken a pay cut. Just saying.

He isn't worth his salary anymore.

Click to expand...

I do wonder how 2015 will go for LM. I'm assuming that at 33 years old the Bucs will ask him to restructure. Based on his history, he will say no and become a FA.

I am also assuming that LM also played out that scenario and judged that what the Pats offered was far less that what he would receive if he stuck to his guns and rolled the dice on 2015.

I don't blame him for wanting the money. He did go 6(!) years on a rookie contract where he was grossly underpaid, don't blame him for trying to even things out.

Mankins, on his last big contract, decided to go for the money. It's a personal choice and one that's hard to argue with at that.

Except ...

A player in this situation needs to consider the probability of actually collecting on both years of his contract. Should Mankins not perform well this year, Tampa can cut him with no salary cap consequences.

An alternative renegotiation tactic is to take less money but greater guarantees. This is what Brady did and it's smart business for older players.

If the principle of the thing and not the money was so vitally important to LM, then Mankins wouldn't have gone along with his agent putting those balloon payments in on the later years of his contract. Every player with half a brain knows rarely does anyone see those payments. They fully expect to be restructured or gone. Brady has retructured several times over the years. Does that mean Brady is "unprincipled"?

If Mankins was so fired up about the "principle" of not renegotiating he would have pushed his agent to front load the contract so if his play dropped off as he was getting older (as happens with most players) he would have still kept his cap hit in line with his performance. Or at least structure the contract to keep his cap hits from wildly swinging as it went along. That way no renegotiation would have been needed or reasonably could have been asked for by the Pats.

I'm not saying Mankins should have played for well under market value or his worth to the team. But if someone's gonna pull the old "It's the principle of the thing" canard then don't put fake years on to the end of the contract. "Principle" is also trying to not screw your team.

Folks this is business, not personal. I am fine with Mankin's position and am OK with the Pats trading him. IMO the 7M (?) in cap savings can be better used on trying to keep McCourty and Revis.

Miguel did a very nice job explaining how this move frees up $6+ million in cap space in 2014, 2015 and 2016, and how unused cap space rolls forward to the following year. The Mankins trade frees up valuable dollars to re-sign guys like Revis and McCourty. These funds being available is a central part of this trade.

At 32-years-old, and probably in the last multi-year deal of his NFL career, Mankins has every right to say no to renegotiating a deal he worked hard to get. He's already collected his signing bonus, and he has every reason to opt for the uncertainty of being traded or cut to preserve as much of that money going forward as he can. The presumption is that the Buccaneers will keep him and are now responsible for everything but the bonus money, and the 2014 camp bonuses. Mankins will continue to get paid.

On the football side, the Patriots get a player that fills an empty role, and another 4th rounder in 2015. The Patriots also get younger along the Offensive Line. Without Mankins, the backups will get a huge number of snaps they would not normally get. The pressure, in my mind, is on Dave DeGuglielmo to coach 'em up and build a good unit. He's up to the task. He is one of the few coaches that came in from the outside with an impressive resume that included the Giants, Dolphins and Jets - all teams with good lines while he was there.

I must say, this trade has more to chew on than any since the Richard Seymour deal.

After the initial shock, and hearing he wouldn't renegotiate, I like the move. My analogy is; Do you trade in a very nice car with 80k miles on it, while it still has a few good yrs left and some value, or 200k miles, when it's on its last legs? I was hoping Mankins would retire a Pat, but it was time. The Bucs got a BMW with some good mileage left. We have a nice down payment on a new chevy

Sounds like textbook irreconcilable differences. Certainly sheds some more light on the BB's thinking here.

Rob0729 said:

Well, if Mankins wanted to be paid what he is worth, he would have taken a pay cut. Just saying.

He isn't worth his salary anymore.

Click to expand...

I was just about to post this, Rob. Here's what I don't understand. Mankins is a smart guy. He HAS to know that he is no longer the same guy he was 3 years ago when he EARNED that contract. Why do players who KNOW that they are slipping, refuse to understand the need of an organization to ONLY pay for current production, not PAST production. That's not "principle", that's selfishness.

That being said, I think his steadfast refusal to renegotiate is a big reason for him being gone. Its not that he'd overpaid this season, but the next 2 as well. That's 3 years with a player making more than he's worth and a strong unlikelihood that he'd ever consent to renegotiate no matter who much his play slipped.

Actually the Pats did him a big favor, just like they did with Mike Vrabel. At the Vrabel was a carrying a contract bigger than his contribution, so instead of cutting him, they traded him to KC where he was paid the full value of his contract. Mankins now will also likely see himself collect the last dollar of that contract, not because he's worth it, but because he's still the best the Buc's have to offer.

patfanken said:

I was just about to post this, Rob. Here's what I don't understand. Mankins is a smart guy. He HAS to know that he is no longer the same guy he was 3 years ago when he EARNED that contract. Why do players who KNOW that they are slipping, refuse to understand the need of an organization to ONLY pay for current production, not PAST production. That's not "principle", that's selfishness.

Click to expand...

If he thinks there's a decent chance that he can still make the money stated in his contract, he is simply looking out for his own financial interests. That is not being selfish.

goheels22002 said:

I must say, this trade has more to chew on than any since the Richard Seymour deal.

Click to expand...

LOL, change the names. No one liked Seymour. Most think Mankins was overpaid. We got good stuff in return. Lawyer Milloy -- that was a dust up!

Need to start the season quick.

Possibly related:

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/504651633045688321

Ian RapoportVerified account‏@RapSheet

#Bucs really 1st called about acquiring a #Patriots backup guard. Pats expressed interest in TE Tim Wright. Soon it was “How about Mankins?”

Click to expand...