PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Offensive Linemen


Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m disappointed that none of the 3 OL we drafted have separated themselves from the practice squad and UDFA players like Devey, Barker, Cave and others.

I think the media pundits overlook the fact that the most pressing objective in the first two preseason games is to give a full opportunity to the team's bubble players so that good choices can be made for the back end of the roster and the practice squad. From an evaluation standpoint, Belichick really didn't need to see rookies like Stork and Easley until now, since both are, for all intents and purposes, locks to make the roster.

Overlooking the purpose of the first weeks of camp has led to a whole lot of irrelevant chatter about who is and is not getting reps on the O-line so far.
 
I think the media pundits overlook the fact that the most pressing objective in the first two preseason games is to give a full opportunity to the team's bubble players so that good choices can be made for the back end of the roster and the practice squad. From an evaluation standpoint, Belichick really didn't need to see rookies like Stork and Easley until now, since both are, for all intents and purposes, locks to make the roster.

Overlooking the purpose of the first weeks of camp has led to a whole lot of irrelevant chatter about who is and is not getting reps on the O-line so far.
The players that get reps are rookies first and foremost, suggesting that they would give valuable reps to an UDFA over a rookie who was going to make the team over the UDFA is illogical. Kline and Devey are getting reps over the rookies because they have outperformed them and are likely to hold more significant roles on the team.
 
The players that get reps are rookies first and foremost, suggesting that they would give valuable reps to an UDFA over a rookie who was going to make the team over the UDFA is illogical. Kline and Devey are getting reps over the rookies because they have outperformed them and are likely to hold more significant roles on the team.
Kline and Devey are being given a good look. At least one of them is likely be active on Game Day. One of them might even start at RG.
 
I don't think there's much doubt: one of Kline or Devey will indeed be our starting RG.
 
The players that get reps are rookies first and foremost, suggesting that they would give valuable reps to an UDFA over a rookie who was going to make the team over the UDFA is illogical. Kline and Devey are getting reps over the rookies because they have outperformed them and are likely to hold more significant roles on the team.

I don't agree with your disappointment about how much progress Devey has made. There's nothing in the fact that he's played a lot to be interpreted as negative about the draft picks. We've got this guy who did an amazing job of working his butt of on the practice squad, during the year last year and in the off season, to make himself into a potential solid NFL player, and the coach, who respects the heck out of this, has recognized it and is giving him a shot. To interpret that as a negative about some recent college graduates who've had 5% of the opportunity he's had to develop, is just looking for trouble.
 
I don't think there's much doubt: one of Kline or Devey will indeed be our starting RG.
If that is the case, for me, it follows that all three active OT's will be on the field when we need a blocking TE's (Solder, Vollmer and Cannon).
 
The players that get reps are rookies first and foremost, suggesting that they would give valuable reps to an UDFA over a rookie who was going to make the team over the UDFA is illogical. Kline and Devey are getting reps over the rookies because they have outperformed them and are likely to hold more significant roles on the team.

That assessment is only partially correct. BB is a good coach and will play them and see if his PS groomed UDFAs have progressed, and how far. It does NOT necessarily mean they have outplayed the more highly regarded draftees. This is playtime games, almost scrimmages, not the real games, so he can afford to do so.

Look at the situation after last season. BB had five regulars and one T/G reserve, plus a bunch of UDFA scrub/projects that Scar was working with. The line was good. Good enough to get to three consecutive AFCCGs and a SB invitation.

However, two of the regulars were now over thirty, and would need replacement within a few years. In addition the line had seemed to spring a leak, and Brady was sacked more often then ever before. Perhaps that was because the planned 2TE Offense disappeared amid arrests and injury, maybe not. Behind them were only the problematical UDFAs.

Belichick knew there was no genuine urgency, still he needed to increase the talent level of the reserves, and start grooming future successors. He drafted two good ones for C and RG, and a third guard with hard nose talent, who slid. Plus it appears one or two of the UDFAs are showing promise.

Whether the youngsters start now, mid-season or next year matters little. The long term Offensive line looks fine now, with maybe with another player or two for spice.
 
Yeah, I won't be surprised to see a lot of Jumbo (6 OLmen) packages for short-yardage, goal-to-go
situations. I'm not a big fan of it, especially if that 6th OLman is in the backfield: both Connolly &
Richard Seymour hurt themselves playing a FB's position. I guess it might become a question of whether we want Cannon or HooHah on the field in those situations.

If that is the case, for me, it follows that all three active OT's will be on the field when we need a blocking TE's (Solder, Vollmer and Cannon).
 
From what i saw Fleming has impressed me since he has been in the lineup. He is just behind some very good T's in Vollmer Cannon and Solder. They started trying him at RG too apparently.
 
From what i saw Fleming has impressed me since he has been in the lineup. He is just behind some very good T's in Vollmer Cannon and Solder. They started trying him at RG too apparently.
Fleming is a 4th rounder, a smart guy and is possibly the 2015 replacement for Cannon. He's looked OK. That being said, I don't want to see him on the active roster this year.
 
Fleming is a 4th rounder, a smart guy and is possibly the 2015 replacement for Cannon. He's looked OK. That being said, I don't want to see him on the active roster this year.

Solder + Vollmer = high likelihood of OT4 being active for games during the season.
 
Let's drop this. Vollmer, Solder and Cannon are our tackles, and they all have position flexibility. It really doesn't matter to be if Vollmer is our #2 LT. We have our 3 OT's plus Mankins. We are in great shape.

BTW, who is you current option for #4 OT: none, Manieri, Fleming, other (e.g. Devey). I think that the answer is Fleming, but that is primarily because I don't think that Belichick will cut a 4th round draft cholce. Do you expect Belichick do cut Fleming?
When you say let's drop this does that mean you realize cannon and mankind are not on front of volumetric at lt?
I doubt he will cut Fleming
I also doubt Fleming will see the field
I also think if you keep Fleming and stork you have to keep at least 9 OL possibly 10.
 
The players that get reps are rookies first and foremost, suggesting that they would give valuable reps to an UDFA over a rookie who was going to make the team over the UDFA is illogical. Kline and Devey are getting reps over the rookies because they have outperformed them and are likely to hold more significant roles on the team.

I think Kline and Devey are getting reps because, after a year in the Pats system, the time has come to make a decision on whether or not they can make the next step to solid NFL starter. It's decision-time for them. You don't want to give them a half-assed look, release them, and then watch as they become 10 year starters for another team. You want a thorough evaluation.

It's not decision time for the developmental players in rounds 2 thru 4 of this year's draft. You don't know what you have with them, but you know that without some kind of complete trainwreck, you are going to keep them on the roster for a year or two to find out. You have to stock your roster with draft picks to survive under the salary cap.
 
What you seem to saying is that the preseason is NOT about getting players ready and NOT about developing players.

Rookie offensive linemen have often been part of the patriots plans in their rookie years.

Let us say that we didn't play the rookies very much at all. That means that BEFORE the preseason, we have basically decided that Stork and Fleming would be useless inactive players for the entire season. After all, they would have needed the preseason to develop enough to be useful. Hilapio would be a player drafted only to waived without a trial, hoping to put him on the Practice Squad.

PLEASE NOTE that is not quite the case. Stork hasn't played because of his injuries.
======================================
THE REALITY
We need a starting RIGHT GUARD. We need a backup RIGHT GUARD. Belichick has decided that Wendell is to be our backup center, unless Stork can beat him out altogether. Belichick wants to move Connolly back to center, his best spot. Devey and Kline have been competing for a starting position.

It is simply wrong to think that Belichick would jeopardize the development of rookies so that he could decide which of Kline or Devey was the best 9th OL. IMHO, Belichick was getting his starting RG ready for the season. He was also making sure that his backup was ready to play also.

Yes, it could be that both Devey and Kline fail. The fallback is another year with Wendell at Center and Connolly at RG. But this is Plan C. The 2 keys are the readiness of Stork and the quality of Devey and Kline at RG.
======================================
I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS ANOTHER VIEW
Some think that Cannon is our starting RG and needs no reps to get him ready. I simply don't accept that view. IMHO, he can be a backup RG if the situation warrants. After all, with 7 active OL's, Cannon may need to be the backup RG as well as the backup OT. The 7th OL would be the backup OC who may not be the best backup OG at all.
====================================
I FIND IT SAD
that so many of us think that Belichick was willing to simply give up on rookie offensive linemen for a year without giving them a chance. IMHO, If they were good enough and healthy enough, they would be getting lots of preseason reps, and lots of reps during the year.
====================================
 
Right now all the rookie O-linemen need grooming. I can't see why Hilapio and maybe Fleming can't do it on the PS.

Great idea to groom a couple of big potentially dominant interior OLineman, however Fleming could start at RG on his raw ability while getting better with experience. He eventually has pro bowl potential. And teams official website has him at Guard. Halapio while 330 and powerful lacks athleticism at guard and needs technique practice to compensate. However he could also be a very good center but would still probably need grooming if they ever do even try him there. But Fleming could be our best RG currently if he outplays Cannon who is probably the choice candidate.
 
The near-certainties -- absent further injury -- are:
  • Solder, Vollmer and Cannon make the roster because they're good players.
  • Fleming makes the roster because he's a 4th-round pick who isn't notably awful, and is healthy.
  • Mankins makes the roster, even though he's a bit expensive, because he's a good player.
  • Connolly makes the roster, even though he's a bit expensive, because he's a good and versatile player.
  • Stork either makes the roster or gets the redshirt of death, because he's a 4th-round pick who didn't wind up on a police blotter.
All that said, RG looks like it's going to become what RT was earlier in BB's tenure -- a revolving door with a new starter each season. They should just assign the starter uniform #2 and have done with it.
 
Some team would definitely grab Fleming as he has even grabbed attention from several teams around the NFL. Halapio would probably get signed by the ravens who liked him as center candidate and were planning on drafting him next to try at center. I first heard about teams coaches and scouts liking him at center from an old friend from college who is a ravens fan who manages a casino outside baltimore hears things and They liked Halapio to groom and try at center and thought he would be there later than where bill picked him but would have drafted him sooner.

Many players come to the casino get drunk and talk. While he admits no all info he gets is reliable,it makes sense the ravens liking Halapio at center. After all I pointed out to him the ravens had huge success with Brown at center. In 2004 draft A big nasty guard who lacked athleticism for a guard but his athleticism wasn't an issue at center and he actually made a pro bowl before going to another team for a big contract. And after getting paid he didn't play as well for his new team. So it wouldn't surprise anybody if the Ravens signed Halapio from the practice squad to groom for center. And if he became a very good center for them it would suck lol.
 
Some team would definitely grab Fleming as he has even grabbed attention from several teams around the NFL. Halapio would probably get signed by the ravens who liked him as center candidate and were planning on drafting him next to try at center. I first heard about teams coaches and scouts liking him at center from an old friend from college who is a ravens fan who manages a casino outside baltimore hears things and They liked Halapio to groom and try at center and thought he would be there later than where bill picked him but would have drafted him sooner.
What is your fascination with Halapio playing at center? His size and athletic ability really does not project well at the center position.
 
Some team would definitely grab Fleming as he has even grabbed attention from several teams around the NFL. Halapio would probably get signed by the ravens who liked him as center candidate and were planning on drafting him next to try at center. I first heard about teams coaches and scouts liking him at center from an old friend from college who is a ravens fan who manages a casino outside baltimore hears things and They liked Halapio to groom and try at center and thought he would be there later than where bill picked him but would have drafted him sooner.

Many players come to the casino get drunk and talk. While he admits no all info he gets is reliable,it makes sense the ravens liking Halapio at center. After all I pointed out to him the ravens had huge success with Brown at center. In 2004 draft A big nasty guard who lacked athleticism for a guard but his athleticism wasn't an issue at center and he actually made a pro bowl before going to another team for a big contract. And after getting paid he didn't play as well for his new team. So it wouldn't surprise anybody if the Ravens signed Halapio from the practice squad to groom for center. And if he became a very good center for them it would suck lol.

Well, if some guy who works in a casino reveals the Ravens draft plans about a 6th round pick, what else is there to say?
 
Even if the rumors are untrue, a move to Center might save Halapio's career. He just doesn't look like
a SB-contending OG, if only as a backup, right now. He should easily pass through waivers unclaimed;
signing him to the PS and teaching him the position of NFL Center while still giving him enough reps at OG to remain sharp doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/25: News and Notes
Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
Back
Top