Manziel gives "Washington's NFL team" the finger

Washington's NFL team = Redskins

PatsFanSince74 said:

Exactly my point. Thanks for re-iterating it (see my other post immediately above your's). Trash talk on the field that's supposed to stay on the field is part of the game. Flipping the bird for a few million people to see is sheer stupidity and loss of control.

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But if 'airing your dirty laundry' in a way that millions of people can see is "sheer stupidity and loss of control", then you pretty much have to level the same criticism at Brady for this. After all, he had just rushed for a game-equalizing touchdown and removed his helmet, so he should have known that the cameras would be on him and would be able to clearly see whatever he said.

Or, we can all just agree that none of this crap matters and that we shouldn't get upset over football players getting heated on the field.

BradyFTW! said:

But if 'airing your dirty laundry' in a way that millions of people can see is "sheer stupidity and loss of control", then you pretty much have to level the same criticism at Brady for this. After all, he had just rushed for a game-equalizing touchdown and removed his helmet, so he should have known that the cameras would be on him and would be able to clearly see whatever he said.

Or, we can all just agree that none of this crap matters and that we shouldn't get upset when it turns out that football players get heated on the field.

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Words ≠ gestures

Deus Irae said:

Words ≠ gestures

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Well, there's a pretty obvious follow-up question here: why?

PatsFanSince74 said:

What he said. Trash talk during a game that's supposed to stay on the field is a whole other thing than doing something that any fool knows a few million people can see.

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Except a few million people did see it. There are gifs all over the internet showing him mouthing the words.

I'm just inclined to agree with the posters who say the gesture in itself isn't a big deal because these guys do crap and say crap all the time to each other. Its just not caught on camera most of the time. The fact that Manziel has had a lit of drama around him should certainly give him pause to consider his actions and how they will look. But in the larger picture its really small apples and jsut another reason for people to rag on the kid.

a spoiled little kid who's done exactly squat at the NFL level draws a negative Brady comparison...only at Patsfans...

What happens when there is a mic on every player full time. They won't be able to trash talk either?

BradyFTW! said:

Well, there's a pretty obvious follow-up question here: why?

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Are you asking for the mechanical differences, or the obvious difference in terms of societal acceptance? We can go all the way back to the famous "Sticks and stones" ditty to see how long this has been ingrained into the American thought pattern.

Deus Irae said:

Are you asking for the mechanical differences, or the obvious difference in terms of societal acceptance? We can go all the way back to the famous "Sticks and stones" ditty to see how long this has been ingrained into the American thought pattern.

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Do you mean "sticks and stones and gestures can break my bones, but words can never hurt me?" Does this mean that sign language isn't speech? Or that flipping them off is awful but getting on the loudspeaker and telling them to go fornicate their mothers is fine by comparison?

In short, that rebuttal makes absolutely no sense.

First world NFL problems over here guys...Funk the redskins. I would have flipped them off with both hands.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Manzieldiot

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I'm all for a clever pun or two but these puns are never clever, always overused, and this one doesn't even make the remotest bit of sense, it's just tacking "idiot" onto the end of a name

BradyFTW! said:

Do you mean "sticks and stones and gestures can break my bones, but words can never hurt me?" Does this mean that sign language isn't speech? Or that flipping them off is awful but getting on the loudspeaker and telling them to go fornicate their mothers is fine by comparison?

In short, that rebuttal makes absolutely no sense.

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The rebuttal is fine. It's your argument that sucks with the force of a black hole. You choosing to reach for the sign language comment, and for a completely inapplicable loudspeaker comparison, shows that you know that.

Deus Irae said:

The rebuttal is fine. It's your argument that sucks with the force of a black hole. You choosing to reach for the sign language comment, and for a completely inapplicable loudspeaker comparison, shows that you know that.

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Translation: my argument is fine because I said it's fine.

Alternately: I'm rubber and you're glue.

As far as the loudspeaker comparison, what about it was inapplicable, anyway? The loudspeaker? If you take the loudspeaker out, does it become applicable then?

BradyFTW! said:

Translation: my argument is fine because I said it's fine.

Alternately: I'm rubber and you're glue.

As far as the loudspeaker comparison, what about it was inapplicable, anyway? The loudspeaker? If you take the loudspeaker out, does it become applicable then?

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No. translation: Your argument was a load of crap.

Grabbing the loudspeaker is an action/gesture that escalates the situation, as you knew full well. It's also a significantly different situation than simple trash talk on the sidelines or on the field being compared to a meaningful, but non-threatening, hand gesture.

You're either trolling or having a really bad day, because your argument isn't even close to sound.

Deus Irae said:

No. translation: Your argument was a load of crap.

Grabbing the loudspeaker is an action/gesture that escalates the situation, as you knew full well. It's also a significantly different situation than simple trash talk on the sidelines or on the field being compared to a meaningful, but non-threatening, hand gesture.

You're either trolling or having a really bad day, because your argument isn't even close to sound.

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No on both counts. So, to be clear, you're saying that telling someone to **** **** his mother isn't nearly as bad as flipping him off because words can never hurt you but gestures constitute "sticks and stones". Rather than derail this any further, I'll just say that I think that's a self-evidently absurd claim and end it there.

Besides his finger, what else do we know about Manziel's body language? That's very important when it comes to QBs.

pwes said:

Really? Tom "F U B****es" Brady? And that was caught on camera as well.

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He was talking back to Welker et al., not the opponents.

His body speaks 5 year old girl in six different dialects while his mouth speaks 100% pure bullshyt...guess that makes him a cunning linguist of sorts..

BradyFTW! said:

No on both counts. So, to be clear, you're saying that telling someone to **** **** his mother isn't nearly as bad as flipping him off because words can never hurt you but gestures constitute "sticks and stones". Rather than derail this any further, I'll just say that I think that's a self-evidently absurd claim and end it there.

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I love that you keep trying to ramp up one side and diminish the other, when you're arguing against the reality of decades of sports and U.S. society. Let me try:

"Really? So to be clear, you're saying that killing someone by slitting his throat isn't nearly as bad as telling him he has a dirt stain on his shirt?"

unoriginal said:

Besides his finger, what else do we know about Manziel's body language? That's very important when it comes to QBs.

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Moreover, does body language fall under the umbrella of visual intangibles?