Tight end Shuffle: Hartsock, Maneri, Terrence Miller in; Jones, Watson, RB Houston out

ATippett56 · Aug 16, 2014

captain stone said:
I didn't say they were, but I would've given them another couple of weeks to see if they have any kind
of future instead than waiving them in favor of Maneri, Hartsock & Miller, all of whom have already shown that they have no future whatsoever.

Steve Maneri sucks.

At this point in time, the New England Patriots are better off with two tight ends on the 53 man roster.

ATippett56 · Aug 16, 2014

captain stone said:
Then it's ugly everywhere, Foxborough included.

The 2015 NFL Draft is not great either with regards to the tight end position.

AzPatsFan · Aug 16, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
I understand that, but I don't view Stork differently than Devey, Kline, Barker etc.
I am concerned about OL depth, especially interior and equally concerned about cutting other players to overload the OL spots.

Solder
Mankins
Connolly
Kline
Vollmer
Cannon
Wendell
Devey
Fleming

Thats 9. Which one do you cut to keep Stork.

That's easy.

Devey, and then possibly Flemming. Devey has cleared waivers before, as he presumably would do so once again. . I think many felt Fleming was a Guard conversion project, without the feet to remain an NFL tackle, even a RT. As such he needs G grooming, and isn't ready now for anyone.

Don't forget waiver claims must go to the 53 man roster. It is only after several (3?) games can he be waived again to their PS. Having joined anybodies PS, he can be lured to another team at any time, if he can be convinced it is in his interest to do so.

Bu we may keep 10 if one is also a blocking TE too.

Ring 6 · Aug 16, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
That's easy.

Devey, and then possibly Flemming. Devey has cleared waivers before, as he presumably would do so once again. . I think many felt Fleming was a Guard conversion project, without the feet to remain an NFL tackle, even a RT. As such he needs G grooming, and isn't ready now for anyone.

Don't forget waiver claims must go to the 53 man roster. It is only after several (3?) games can he be waived again to their PS. Having joined anybodies PS, he can be lured to another team at any time, if he can be convinced it is in his interest to do so.

Bu we may keep 10 if one is also a blocking TE too.

I don't like the idea of cutting based on whether they will get to the ps. If you cut Devey so you can put him on the ps, he can't play. Stork can't play. We have the guy who can't play on the roster, and the guy who can on the ps.
I'm not sure we should be wringing our hands over losing Bryan Stork and all he could be in the future. But thats just me. Perhaps at this time next year we will be able to see whether whatever decision BB makes was the right one. It seems the players that have fit into this category ultimately never amounted to anything.

Deus Irae · Aug 16, 2014

captain stone said:
I didn't say they were, but I would've given them another couple of weeks to see if they have any kind
of future instead than waiving them in favor of Maneri, Hartsock & Miller, all of whom have already shown that they have no future whatsoever.

????

Hartsock has had a 10 year NFL career
Maneri is a conversion project, so bringing him in WAS/IS seeing if he has any kind of a future
Miller is a rookie, so he couldn't possibly have shown that he has no future yet

There's a legitimate gripe about this team's handling of the TE position this offseason, but getting rid of Watson and Jones?

There's no gripe there.

captain stone · Aug 16, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
I understand that, but I don't view Stork differently than Devey, Kline, Barker etc.
I am concerned about OL depth, especially interior and equally concerned about cutting other players to overload the OL spots.

Solder
Mankins
Connolly
Kline
Vollmer
Cannon
Wendell
Devey
Fleming

Thats 9. Which one do you cut to keep Stork.

Kline; Devey; and, depending on the severity of Stork's injury, Wendell.

I understand your position, AJ. I just feel that, as of right now, it is too premature to consider
waiving Stork & Fleming, especially merely to retain flotsam like Kline & Devey, who stand a far
better chance of passing through waivers unclaimed than Stork & Fleming.

captain stone · Aug 16, 2014

Deus Irae said:
????

Hartsock has had a 10 year NFL career
Maneri is a conversion project, so bringing him in WAS/IS seeing if he has any kind of a future
Miller is a rookie, so he couldn't possibly have shown that he has no future yet

There's a legitimate gripe about this team's handling of the TE position this offseason, but getting rid of Watson and Jones?

There's no gripe there.

In the overall scheme, there isn't. I'm hoping that all this is mere deck chair-shuffling to sustain
the roster through the pre-season, when Gronk, HooHa & DJW return from injuries.

Deus Irae · Aug 16, 2014

captain stone said:
In the overall scheme, there isn't. I'm hoping that all this is mere deck chair-shuffling to sustain
the roster through the pre-season, when Gronk, HooHa & DJW return from injuries.

This team is 1.3 players deep at TE. That's a problem, and I certainly agree with you there. That probably means that Devlin is going to have to take on a significant TE/H-back role. I'm on board for criticizing BB for leaving the team in that position.

I'm just not seeing what BB could have done once the league got into OTAs and the like. The TE talent pool in basically non-existent if you don't count the significantly injured Keller and Finley, so skimming from it, be it from the top or the bottom, isn't likely to be much help.

mgteich · Aug 16, 2014

Yes, Develin is taking on some of the hback/3rd TE role. One of the OT's taking on some of the #3 TE role. I'm not sure that this is a bad situation.

Obviously, we are in a lousy situation as long as our #1 TE and backup TE are injured.

Deus Irae said:
This team is 1.3 players deep at TE. That's a problem, and I certainly agree with you there. That probably means that Devlin is going to have to take on a significant TE/H-back role. I'm on board for criticizing BB for leaving the team in that position.

I'm just not seeing what BB could have done once the league got into OTAs and the like. The TE talent pool in basically non-existent if you don't count the significantly injured Keller and Finley, so skimming from it, be it from the top or the bottom, isn't likely to be much help.

Deus Irae · Aug 17, 2014

mgteich said:
Yes, Develin is taking on some of the hback/3rd TE role. One of the OT's taking on some of the #3 TE role. I'm not sure that this is a bad situation.

Obviously, we are in a lousy situation as long as our #1 TE and backup TE are injured.

Having a FB who can play some H-back/TE, in addition to having good TEs who can do their job, is not a bad situation. In fact, it would be a great situation.

Needing your FB to play H-back/TE because your TEs are incompetent, however, IS a bad situation, and that's what we're looking at here.

supafly · Aug 17, 2014

mgteich said:
Yes, Develin is taking on some of the hback/3rd TE role. One of the OT's taking on some of the #3 TE role. I'm not sure that this is a bad situation.

Obviously, we are in a lousy situation as long as our #1 TE and backup TE are injured.

While we're on the subject, what is making everyone so confident that DJ Williams is going to be the TE3? That's something I'm having a difficult time understanding.

Is there a possibility that Devlin is just the H-back/TE3, rather than Williams? Is there something that I'm missing about Williams and his talent/camp this summer?

patchick · Aug 17, 2014

captain stone said:
Then it's ugly everywhere, Foxborough included.

Yep. No way am I trying to suggest that Hooman + bubkes is a pretty depth situation. I'm just skeptical of the idea -- frequently voiced here -- that Pats could have shored it up tidily in the offseason if they hadn't chosen to "ignore" the position. TE talent is incredibly scarce leaguewide.

Brady6 · Aug 17, 2014

patchick said:
Yep. No way am I trying to suggest that Hooman + bubkes is a pretty depth situation. I'm just skeptical of the idea -- frequently voiced here -- that Pats could have shored it up tidily in the offseason if they hadn't chosen to "ignore" the position. TE talent is incredibly scarce leaguewide.

I keep seeing posters say that but I do not agree. There are plenty of teams like the Colts, Eagles, Bengals, and others that have good depth at TE. We did not prioritize it at all, we entered camp with Hooman as our only healthy established pro and even he is ideally a 3rd or 4th string player at best.

They could have sure it up, they could have signed Scott Chandler, Andrew Quarless, Ed ****son Jeff Cumberland, Brandon Myers, Garrett Graham, Brandon Pettigrew, Owen Daniels, John Carlson, any of those players would have been an upgrade over Hooman and improved our current situation drastically. We could have made a play for Chandler he would have been perfect, 2 year deal for $4.75M, we could have swung it without an issue.

Ring 6 · Aug 17, 2014

Brady6 said:
I keep seeing posters say that but I do not agree. There are plenty of teams like the Colts, Eagles, Bengals, and others that have good depth at TE. We did not prioritize it at all, we entered camp with Hooman as our only healthy established pro and even he is ideally a 3rd or 4th string player at best.

They could have sure it up, they could have signed Scott Chandler, Andrew Quarless, Ed ****son Jeff Cumberland, Brandon Myers, Garrett Graham, Brandon Pettigrew, Owen Daniels, John Carlson, any of those players would have been an upgrade over Hooman and improved our current situation drastically. We could have made a play for Chandler he would have been perfect, 2 year deal for $4.75M, we could have swung it without an issue.

The teams with two good TEs are running 2 TE base offenses so you are talking about starters not backups
The players you wanted in free agency a) would not come here to be gronks backup or b) wouldn't be good enough for us to run a 2 TE offense and c) even if they were we would have the exact same depth issue bit it would be 2 positions we lacked depth at.

Deus Irae · Aug 17, 2014

patchick said:
Yep. No way am I trying to suggest that Hooman + bubkes is a pretty depth situation. I'm just skeptical of the idea -- frequently voiced here -- that Pats could have shored it up tidily in the offseason if they hadn't chosen to "ignore" the position. TE talent is incredibly scarce leaguewide.

There were TEs available in free agency. The Patriots, for whatever reason, didn't end up going that route. Obviously, that's their right. However, when the result is what we have in front of us, there's going to be finger pointing, complaining and questioning, and there should be.

Brady6 · Aug 17, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
The teams with two good TEs are running 2 TE base offenses so you are talking about starters not backups
The players you wanted in free agency a) would not come here to be gronks backup or b) wouldn't be good enough for us to run a 2 TE offense and c) even if they were we would have the exact same depth issue bit it would be 2 positions we lacked depth at.

They are not 2 TE offenses. They mix in that formation just like we do. I think you are just trying to justify the lack of effort to fill the need for depth at TE.

Ring 6 · Aug 17, 2014

Brady6 said:
They are not 2 TE offenses. They mix in that formation just like we do. I think you are just trying to justify the lack of effort to fill the need for depth at TE.

Well if you are going to pretend reality isnt real, I don't know where to go.

Brady6 · Aug 17, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
Well if you are going to pretend reality isnt real, I don't know where to go.

I think it goes without question that behind Brady the most important player in our offense is Gronkowski. Well we prioritized having a good backup for Brady enough to use 2 top 75 draft picks on his backup in 4 years but we rely on a player we signed off another teams practice squad to backup Gronkowksi. This is the reality the second most important player in our offense does not have an adequate backup. We could have drafted a player, signed an UFA, or at least signed some more promising UDFAs.

Is it going to be the downfall of the team no but let's not sit here and pretend we did the best we could, because we didn't.

jefmblrd · Aug 17, 2014

Barring some type of surprise signing or a cut-down day signing, it looks like we're heading into the season with Gronk & Hooman and Develin as a TE/H-Back/FB. As long as Gronk can stay healthy (big if I know) they should be okay there.

Armchair Quarterback · Aug 17, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
The teams with two good TEs are running 2 TE base offenses so you are talking about starters not backups
The players you wanted in free agency a) would not come here to be gronks backup or b) wouldn't be good enough for us to run a 2 TE offense and c) even if they were we would have the exact same depth issue bit it would be 2 positions we lacked depth at.

A) You have no idea if that is true, you're treating you're assumptions as fact
B) A blanket statement covering all available TE's
C) Not true, you could go back to a one TE base offense and still have a quality player, whereas now they don't.

Tight end Shuffle: Hartsock, Maneri, Terrence Miller in; Jones, Watson, RB Houston out

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