Why Did Jordan Devey Get 91 reps (out of 91)?

Kenneth Sims said:

Even if Stork or Fleming cleared waivers after being cut, it would be their choice to sign with the Pats PS or the PS of another team. Neither of them will be cut. From a roster composition standpoint, the only question left to be answered is whether Devey's versatility makes him more valuable in the coaches eyes than Wendall's experience. I think it will considering he's also been taking reps at C in practice. Barring injuries in the OL or a rash of injuries at other positions, the 9 OL will be: Solder, Mankins, Connolly, Cannon,Vollmer, Kline,Devey's,Fleming & Stork.

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Sure they can go to any practice squad, but are we really talking about building a roster around the idea of keeping a guy who doesn't deserve to make it because someone else may sign him?
Wouldn't keeping the 54th best player so no one gets them mean someone gets the 53rd best?
I'm not convinced either of those players are a sure thing to ever contribute much.
I'd surely rather have wendells years of experience on the team than Storks week of practice.

VrabelJr said:

It's pretty surreal to think we might actually have good enough reasons for cutting Fleming and Halapio already.

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To be clear, I think Fleming ought to be the 9th OL.
I just think that we can get by with 8 and move him to the ps, if Maneri is the 3rd TE because he can be an emergency OL, saving a spot.
I'm not sure what Halapio has shown that would make him a real contender for the roster.

VrabelJr said:

It's pretty surreal to think we might actually have good enough reasons for cutting Fleming and Halapio already.

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Already?

When you have a good team, 6th rounders are long shots to make the 53 man roster, and are more likely to be competing for the Practice Squad.

We have our entire starting line returning from last year. We also return our top 2 backups (Cannon and Kline). Finally, we return 3 players with some experience on the team: Devey, Barker and Cave. Finally, one of the country's top centers was drafted before both of them and is also competing for a roster spot.

Finally, we have Manieri who was with the team in the past who is competing for the 4th OT spot.

The total is 12 players that Hilapio and Fleming need to beat out for a job. Why would you presume that 6th round draft picks would make the roster? Obviously, there are being given every chance to compete for one of the 8-9 rosters spots.

I am NOT suggesting that the patriots keep any but our best 53.

I am simply suggesting that other teams MIGHT be reasonably interesting in signing our #54, #55 or #56 players as developmental prospects.

AndyJohnson said:

But the overriding difference is that you have to cut a player who made your team to add a guy who didn't make someone elses team. He wouldn't not be making out team because of an embarrassment of riches, we will be keeping JAG OLman.
To think that other teams see him as such an upgrade over the guys they keep that they will cut another to bring him in and hand him a roster spot, sight unseen when he couldn't even practice and got cut is a stretch to me.

I think what many people overlook is that on day 3, all 32 board are dramatically different, and some teams are taking players in round 7 (or even bringing them in as UDFA) that are higher on thier board than guys taken in the 4th.
Stork isn't a 4th round pick to 32 teams. He is a 4th round pick to the Patriots, and who know what he was to the other 31, and that has to be downgraded by the fact he has one week of NFL camp under his belt vs players who will survive a full camp.

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Fencer said:

The logjam is even worse than that -- you seem to have forgotten Stork. Looking at tea leaves, draft position, etc., there seem to be 10 OL on track to make the roster -- your 5 starters, Cannon, Wendell (for your reasons), Devey and the 2 fourth-round picks.

That's probably why a lot of people don't see both of Connolly and Wendell making it.

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There is no reason Halapio can't develop on the PS. Meanwhile an extra Tackle can become the TE3 too, opening a position.

To be clear, you think that we should keep Fleming instead of Manieri?

AndyJohnson said:

To be clear, I think Fleming ought to be the 9th OL.
I just think that we can get by with 8 and move him to the ps, if Maneri is the 3rd TE because he can be an emergency OL, saving a spot.
I'm not sure what Halapio has shown that would make him a real contender for the roster.

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mgteich said:

I am NOT suggesting that the patriots keep any but our best 53.

I am simply suggesting that other teams MIGHT be reasonably interesting in signing our #54, #55 or #56 players as developmental prospects.

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OK, I thought you were stating that as a reason to keep them.

EDIT: Actually my post wasn't responding to you. I assumed the poster I was responding to was touting keeping players who wouldn't make the roster otherwise in consideration of someone else wanting to claim them.

mgteich said:

To be clear, you think that we should keep Fleming instead of Manieri?

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Haven't decided yet. I listed pro and cons earlier.
I dont know if it is better to use an OL as TE3 or TE3 as emergency OL.
I suppose it would come down to whether TE3 would be a game day active based on how much of a role there is for him.
I think I want to save a roster spot by going 8/3 at OL/TE or 9/2.

Isn't it nice to have a surplus of players at most positions? Only at LB is the non-starter depth, not good enough or even competent. Even at TE, Hooman is competent depth.

Pleasant problem, isn't it?

AzPatsFan said:

Isn't it nice to have a surplus of players at most positions? Only at LB is the non-starter depth, not good enough or even competent. Even at TE, Hooman is competent depth.

Pleasant problem, isn't it?

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Arguably Anderson is starter quality LB depth too.
I suppose S is a position some would argue.

Isn't Maneri something like 30 pounds lighter than when he was trying to play OT? I wouldn't want a 280 pound guy on the OT depth chart at all.

Sciz said:

Isn't Maneri something like 30 pounds lighter than when he was trying to play OT? I wouldn't want a 280 pound guy on the OT depth chart at all.

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He would be the 4th T, and the 8th game day active. An emergency OL.
I would venture that in BBs 14 years here, in that position he would have seen the field for only a smattering of plays, if any.

AndyJohnson said:

Arguably Anderson is starter quality LB depth too.
I suppose S is a position some would argue.

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I implicitly included Anderson as a starter cover LB, but didn't expressly say it. Thanks for the clarification to which I wholeheartedly agree. We have four (with Ninko an emergency fifth),but no more.

As for Safety, I think that is Last season's problem, which will become increasingly clear this season.

Harmon has won the S2 job. Arrington/Ryan have won the McCourty backup job. Wilson seems to have matured, and can play. He has ideal size and speed for the position. Chung may not be the premium Safety originally expected, but despite Fandom hyperbole, is an above average to good reserve. All are fully sized for the job unlike Sanders and Gregory before them.

So we have starters and pretty good depth at both positions; and even more talent can be drawn from the very good CB pool if needed.

My concern remains demonstrating that we can Stop the Run. I don't know if Wilfork, Kelly and Mayo can display the same talents as before their season ending injuries. I am encouraged by the performance against the Eagles when they did play, versus the Skins when they did not.

AndyJohnson said:

To be clear, I think Fleming ought to be the 9th OL.
I just think that we can get by with 8 and move him to the ps, if Maneri is the 3rd TE because he can be an emergency OL, saving a spot.
I'm not sure what Halapio has shown that would make him a real contender for the roster.

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I would go with 9 OL. In recent years, we have been hit with rashes of injuries in both 2011 and 2013. Last year, we had Logan Mankins playing left tackle at one point, which speaks to the issue. In the last 3 seasons, Vollmer has played in 29 games out of 48 reguler season games (missing much of 2011 and 2013). In 2011, IIRC we had 4 different centers at different times of the year (due to injuries). IMHO it's too important a position to not keep at least 9. 5 starters with 2 backups on the interior and 2 backups on the exterior. Even with player versatility, the quantity is vitally important.

I agree with most everything else. Although, I don't think they will cut Stork. If I had to bet, it's that he's either IR'd or on the 53. Same with Fleming. I can see Halapio cut for the PS. It's not necessarily what I'd do as GM, but it's what I'd guess they will do.

AzPatsFan said:

I implicitly included Anderson as a starter cover LB, but didn't expressly say it. Thanks for the clarification to which I wholeheartedly agree. We have four (with Ninko an emergency fifth),but no more.

As for Safety, I think that is Last season's problem, which will become increasingly clear this season.

Harmon has won the S2 job. Arrington/Ryan have won the McCourty backup job. Wilson seems to have matured, and can play. He has ideal size and speed for the position. Chung may not be the premium Safety originally expected, but despite Fandom hyperbole, is an above average to good reserve. All are fully sized for the job unlike Sanders and Gregory before them.

So we have starters and pretty good depth at both positions; and even more talent can be drawn from the very good CB pool if needed.

My concern remains demonstrating that we can Stop the Run. I don't know if Wilfork, Kelly and Mayo can display the same talents as before their season ending injuries. I am encouraged by the performance against the Eagles when they did play, versus the Skins when they did not.

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I hope you are correct about S.

patriot lifer said:

I would go with 9 OL. In recent years, we have been hit with rashes of injuries in both 2011 and 2013. Last year, we had Logan Mankins playing left tackle at one point, which speaks to the issue. In the last 3 seasons, Vollmer has played in 29 games out of 48 reguler season games (missing much of 2011 and 2013). In 2011, IIRC we had 4 different centers at different times of the year (due to injuries). IMHO it's too important a position to not keep at least 9. 5 starters with 2 backups on the interior and 2 backups on the exterior. Even with player versatility, the quantity is vitally important.

I agree with most everything else. Although, I don't think they will cut Stork. If I had to bet, it's that he's either IR'd or on the 53. Same with Fleming. I can see Halapio cut for the PS. It's not necessarily what I'd do as GM, but it's what I'd guess they will do.

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I don't disagree with needing 9 but given that #9 and possibly #8 will be game day inactives, keeping them on the practice squad serves the same purpose in injury protection depth.

mgteich said:

Already?

When you have a good team, 6th rounders are long shots to make the 53 man roster, and are more likely to be competing for the Practice Squad.

We have our entire starting line returning from last year. We also return our top 2 backups (Cannon and Kline). Finally, we return 3 players with some experience on the team: Devey, Barker and Cave. Finally, one of the country's top centers was drafted before both of them and is also competing for a roster spot.

Finally, we have Manieri who was with the team in the past who is competing for the 4th OT spot.

The total is 12 players that Hilapio and Fleming need to beat out for a job. Why would you presume that 6th round draft picks would make the roster? Obviously, there are being given every chance to compete for one of the 8-9 rosters spots.

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I understand Halapio's spot not being safe, but Fleming was a 4th rounder (albeit the last pick of the round) who was projected more as a day 2 guy. He's pretty low on the tackle depth chart but it's not necessarily his fault, given who's ahead of him.

AzPatsFan said:

I implicitly included Anderson as a starter cover LB, but didn't expressly say it. Thanks for the clarification to which I wholeheartedly agree. We have four (with Ninko an emergency fifth),but no more.

As for Safety, I think that is Last season's problem, which will become increasingly clear this season.

Harmon has won the S2 job. Arrington/Ryan have won the McCourty backup job. Wilson seems to have matured, and can play. He has ideal size and speed for the position. Chung may not be the premium Safety originally expected, but despite Fandom hyperbole, is an above average to good reserve. All are fully sized for the job unlike Sanders and Gregory before them.

So we have starters and pretty good depth at both positions; and even more talent can be drawn from the very good CB pool if needed.

My concern remains demonstrating that we can Stop the Run. I don't know if Wilfork, Kelly and Mayo can display the same talents as before their season ending injuries. I am encouraged by the performance against the Eagles when they did play, versus the Skins when they did not.

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The fact that I saw you proclaim Harmon has already won the S2 job and someone else proclaim Wilson is way ahead (it was in some thread last night) means the job is far from decided.

AndyJohnson said:

The idea that ROOKIE players cut at cutdown won't make it through waivers is one of the biggest misconceptions going. If there are 4 total in the league this year I would be shocked.

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mgteich said:

I agree that this is a general misconception.

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Okay, here are the rookies a single unidentified team claimed off of waivers during cutdowns last year:

DT Gilbert Pena (UDFA)
LB Ja'Gared Davis (UDFA)
C Braxston Cave (UDFA)
G Chris Barker (UDFA)
DT A.J. Francis (UDFA)
DT Chris Jones (6th rounder, awarded to Tampa)
CB Marcus Cooper (7th rounder, awarded to Kansas City)

Here is a non-exhaustive list of rookies claimed off of waivers last year at cutdowns by other teams:

WR Russell Shepard (UDFA)
DE David Bass (7th rounder)
TE MarQueis Gray (UDFA)
LB Brandon Magee (UDFA)
OL Keavon Milton (UDFA)
RB Dennis Johnson (UDFA)
TE Jack Doyle (UDFA)
C Patrick Lewis (UDFA)
LB Eric Martin (UDFA)
LB Paul Hazel (UDFA)
CB Jumal Rolle (UDFA)

So conversely I would be greatly surprised if either (a) only four rookies in the league were claimed off of waivers this year, or (b) 4th rounders like Stork and Fleming passed through the wire unmolested.

One would think the Jets alone would submit multiple claims for those two players, just to make them honorary captains.

AzPatsFan said:

Harmon has won the S2 job.

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Harmon has done nothing in training camp or preseason to prove he has won the S2 spot.

mgteich said:

To be clear, you think that we should keep Fleming instead of Manieri?

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Steve Maneri sucks.