***THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread***

BradyFTW! said:

Very apt comparison, IMO, although if anything Jones was supposed to also be more athletic than Browner, mostly on account of his great combine. I'm sure that Pete Carroll was thrilled to have Jones, though, for the same reason that he was happy to get Browner.

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No, I mean he was specifically drafted to be a "press corner." Since his defense hadn't been implemented anywhere (as far as I know) people thought he was daft to use a guy at corner who wasn't even a great safety in college (was a RB as much, I believe).

Marqui said:

Is that bad? He won a Superbowl.

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The Ravens didn't beat the Niners because of Pollard. As a matter of fact that it's debatable that they should have beaten the Niners.

RayClay said:

No, I mean he was specifically drafted to be a "press corner." Since his defense hadn't been implemented anywhere (as far as I know) people thought he was daft to use a guy at corner who wasn't even a great safety in college (was a RB as much, I believe).

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He was running his defense here. At the time there was much talk about the pick and how he would be used as a press corner, and Carroll himself said it was his choice and he recognized that if it failed it would probably be his job.
Jones was converted from RB to S, and i think he play 2 years of safety.
What he was, was a workout warrior with ridiculous measurables, and another example of why the skills of being a football player mean more than speed, strength, etc.

So, Hartstock is gone. Miller is IRed. Williams and Hooman are injured. Gronk isn't playing tonight. Looks like we'll get a long look at Maneri and what he can/can't do.. I also find it interesting that neither Bass nor Worthy are expected to play tonight. So that leaves Vellano, Forston, Manumaleauna and Tuipulotu as DTs behind Wilfrok and Kelly. Gonna be a long 2nd half..

AndyJohnson said:

He was running his defense here. At the time there was much talk about the pick and how he would be used as a press corner, and Carroll himself said it was his choice and he recognized that if it failed it would probably be his job.
Jones was converted from RB to S, and i think he play 2 years of safety.
What he was, was a workout warrior with ridiculous measurables, and another example of why the skills of being a football player mean more than speed, strength, etc.

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I meant I didn't think Carrol completely had control here, but I have no way of knowing that. Actually, his problem with players going behind his back to Grier has been documented (I believe).

He was the coach and a defensive one, so he certainly ran the defense. I don't think he had the job security to make radical changes without considering problems in a transitional period but, again, I have no inside knowledge to his thought process.

But listening to Carroll on Tuesday, you get the sense that what he learned from his three years in New England serve him more than his time in college.

"I think I learned a lot. I think I learned a lot of things. Robert and his family are a great family to play and coach for," Carroll said. "But I also learned what it takes for a person like myself to operate at my highest level and I also realized some limitations that were going on that kept me from being the kind of coach I could be. It allowed me to refocus and formalize some plans that I was able to put in at USC and then at the Seahawks."

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http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/football/patriots/mike-petraglia/2014/01/28/how-new-england-helped-make-pete-carroll-s

RayClay said:

I meant I didn't think Carrol completely had control here, but I have no way of knowing that. Actually, his problem with players going behind his back to Grier has been documented (I believe).

He was the coach and a defensive one, so he certainly ran the defense. I don't think he had the job security to make radical changes without considering problems in a transitional period but, again, I have no inside knowledge to his thought process.


http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/foo...28/how-new-england-helped-make-pete-carroll-s

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Actually, it was documented in Patriot Reign that players would go behind Carroll's back to both Grier and Kraft. And it was one of the things that Belichick told Kraft had to stop if he took over as coach. It also came out during the whole Bledsoe/Brady controversy thanks to Wrong Bogus.. eeerrrr.. Ron Borges.. Borges was saying how much of an ego Belichick had because "he shut down that avenue for players to air their grievances." (or some such crap).

DaBruinz said:

Actually, it was documented in Patriot Reign that players would go behind Carroll's back to both Grier and Kraft. And it was one of the things that Belichick told Kraft had to stop if he took over as coach. It also came out during the whole Bledsoe/Brady controversy thanks to Wrong Bogus.. eeerrrr.. Ron Borges.. Borges was saying how much of an ego Belichick had because "he shut down that avenue for players to air their grievances." (or some such crap).

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Thanks, I couldn't remember where i read it.

RayClay said:

I meant I didn't think Carrol completely had control here, but I have no way of knowing that. Actually, his problem with players going behind his back to Grier has been documented (I believe).

He was the coach and a defensive one, so he certainly ran the defense. I don't think he had the job security to make radical changes without considering problems in a transitional period but, again, I have no inside knowledge to his thought process.


http://m.weei.com/sports/boston/foo...28/how-new-england-helped-make-pete-carroll-s

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I'm saying that Carroll ran that defense when he was here, and he spoke out that Jones was his pick, and he picked him to play bump and run corner. Whatever control he did or didn't have, he had control over that pick, and how he chose to use him.

Tebucky was by no means a great football player but he did put a hellacious pounding on those little bitty Ram receivers on that Sunday in New Orleans so long ago.

AndyJohnson said:

I'm saying that Carroll ran that defense when he was here, and he spoke out that Jones was his pick, and he picked him to play bump and run corner. Whatever control he did or didn't have, he had control over that pick, and how he chose to use him.

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Right. He had Jones for two years. I think he installed a whole revolutionary defense at Seattle. I don't think he completely installed the defense he liked here. I believe I said he wanted Jones to be part of a defense like in Seattle. That was my original post, or at least what i meant.

NFL fans biggest nightmare this season:

FYI - The final practice open to the public is today at 2:00.

MrNathanDrake said:

NFL fans biggest nightmare this season:

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And then the flag draws a flag for looking at receiver after 5 yards

Gallon and Worthy out of the starting blocks today.

Mack Herron said:

Gallon and Worthy out of the starting blocks today.

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Has Worthy practiced at all yet?

Time for Boyce to be jumped by another WR.

mgteich said:

Has Worthy practiced at all yet?

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today is the first day I believe.

Patriots WR Gallon passes physical - espnBoston

AndyJohnson said:

He was running his defense here. At the time there was much talk about the pick and how he would be used as a press corner, and Carroll himself said it was his choice and he recognized that if it failed it would probably be his job.
Jones was converted from RB to S, and i think he play 2 years of safety.
What he was, was a workout warrior with ridiculous measurables, and another example of why the skills of being a football player mean more than speed, strength, etc.

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Tebucky played several years at Safety, and was good enough to be franchised in 2003 before being traded to the Saints for what turned out to be Corey Dillon, Dexter Reid and Tully Banta-Cain.

If not for Willie Mac slow dancing with The Wrong Faulk at the other end of the field on February 3, 2002, Tebucky Jones would have been the star of The Greatest Moment in New England Patriots History.

Belichick thought enough of him to resign him in 2006 after being IR'ed in Miami. Then he became player #496 to have a "problem" with the treatment techniques of former Patriots Director of Medical Staff Dr. Thomas Gill and retired after a settled court case with the Pats.

In summation, Tebucky Jones was a football player who also had measurables. He was not just a workout warrior. The Pats asked alot of him to switch from RB to DB to Safety and he worked through that and became pretty damn good.

AndyJohnson said:

I'm saying that Carroll ran that defense when he was here, and he spoke out that Jones was his pick, and he picked him to play bump and run corner. Whatever control he did or didn't have, he had control over that pick, and how he chose to use him.

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Pete wanted TeBucky; but you have to remember that he wanted him so much that he purposely passed over a player that fell to him just prior, a WR named Randy Moss.

Brians Tymms first player on the practice field Today geez...what a kiss-up.