THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread

JDot · Aug 14, 2014

Just going to throw this in this thread.

dkaplanSBJdaniel kaplan
NFL CIO says problem w/ coaches tablets WiFi in Pats-DC game last wk was frequency jam due 2 nearby weather station.assures will be fixed

shmessy · Aug 14, 2014

KontradictioN said:
Browner doesn't play well in space. Why that is, I honestly couldn't tell you. He just doesn't. His speciality is getting his mitts on a WR and physical driving him to the turf off the LOS. That's why he'll stay at CB. Ryan has better range which would make him better suited to playing safety than Browner.

1) "His speciality is getting his mitts on a WR and physical driving him to the turf off the LOS."

Which is why, in 2014 with the new rules, he will be a yellow flag magnet. The environment has changed. You are referencing previous year environments. There is a reason he was the first penalty of the 2014 NFL Preseason. Don't think for a second the refs won't be cognizant of his reputation. Bedard spotlighted as much in his Pats preview today.

2) "Ryan has better range which would make him better suited to playing safety than Browner."

Better FREE safety. Not STRONG safety. SS is the weakest position on this roster right now. If McCourty goes down, yes, I want Ryan in his spot. But Ryan playing next to McCourty is a redundancy. Browner plays better in space than Wilson/Harmon/Chung/Ebner.

Marinlik · Aug 14, 2014

KontradictioN said:
Browner doesn't play well in space. Why that is, I honestly couldn't tell you. He just doesn't. His speciality is getting his mitts on a WR and physical driving him to the turf off the LOS. That's why he'll stay at CB. Ryan has better range which would make him better suited to playing safety than Browner.

In my opinion that is because he bends his back, not his knees. He also doesn't break down that good, but instead takes large steps when he is a bout to tackle. Those are 2 things that really kill you when you play in open space. That is the main reason that I don't want him as a safety. I would not want to have a situation where he has to tackle a guy like Shady McCoy in open space. Like he would have to do as a safety.

There is absolutely nothing in his game that makes me want him as a safety. He is just to stiff for that. He may hit as hard as a safety. But he doesn't move anywhere near as well as a safety.

@schmessy He got penalized because he grabbed the opponent when he was making the cut for an out route if I remember correctly. That would have been a penalty last year too, and the year before that too. You can't grab and push players in their cuts after 5 yards. He can still man handle a receiver the first 5 yards.

shmessy · Aug 14, 2014

Marinlik said:
There is absolutely nothing in his game that makes me want him as a safety. He is just to stiff for that. He may hit as hard as a safety. But he doesn't move anywhere near as well as a safety.

And not moving as 'fluidly' as a safety makes him suitable for a CB?

Don't you have to move well as a CB?

BingoBrown · Aug 14, 2014

Brandon_Cox said:
Maybe another way to put it is: Butler is a lock to make an NFL roster this year; the only question is whether it will be with the Pats.

That's what scares the crap outta me.He gets cut and Rex Ryan makes him a #1.

Deus Irae · Aug 14, 2014

If there's one thing you really want to do with a guy who doesn't play particularly well in space, it's got to be putting that guy in a position where he has to play in space.

That's the perfect recipe for success.

shmessy · Aug 14, 2014

BingoBrown said:
That's what scares the crap outta me.He gets cut and Rex Ryan makes him a #1.

That doesn't scare me, because he isn't a #1 CB. That won't make the Jets any better

But what would bother me is holding onto one trick pony STers like Chris White or Nate Ebner or JaGared Davis instead of using an STer who can actually play a position too.

BingoBrown · Aug 14, 2014

I think he is better then anyone on the Jets right now.A #1 for
the Jets is what I meant.

Marinlik · Aug 14, 2014

shmessy said:
And not moving as 'fluidly' as a safety makes him suitable for a CB?

Don't you have to move well as a CB?

When he faces receivers that are a bit less quick then CB works for him. Put someone like Welker on him and Browner is absolutely screwed. Browner can play CB because he can man handle his WR for the first 5 yards and then keep up with them if they aren't the Welker/Edelman type of receiver. His mobility is much less of a problem for him at CB when he can play close and use his strength than it is as a safety where he would have to play in open space.

I just can't see Browner as a safety. Putting him there would be to play at all his disadvantages and really none of his advantages except hard hitting.

shmessy · Aug 14, 2014

Marinlik said:
When he faces receivers that are a bit less quick then CB works for him. Put someone like Welker on him and Browner is absolutely screwed. Browner can play CB because he can man handle his WR for the first 5 yards and then keep up with them if they aren't the Welker/Edelman type of receiver. His mobility is much less of a problem for him at CB when he can play close and use his strength than it is as a safety where he would have to play in open space.

I just can't see Browner as a safety. Putting him there would be to play at all his disadvantages and really none of his advantages except hard hitting.

Fair enough. Good points.

Ring 6 · Aug 14, 2014

shmessy said:
That doesn't scare me, because he isn't a #1 CB. That won't make the Jets any better

But what would bother me is holding onto one trick pony STers like Chris White or Nate Ebner or JaGared Davis instead of using an STer who can actually play a position too.

Providing that he can do his primary job of special teams as well as the guy he replaces. Also lbs and DBS aren't really interchangeable on sts

BradyFTW! · Aug 14, 2014

shmessy said:
And not moving as 'fluidly' as a safety makes him suitable for a CB?

Don't you have to move well as a CB?

He doesn't move especially well for a safety or CB: anyone who gets a clean release is going to beat him because he won't keep up in space. But as a CB he has a 5 yard window where he can jam the hell out of the receiver and basically blow up his route before it starts.

JMC00 · Aug 14, 2014

Jeff Howe said on CSNNE that right now based on camp he thinks Logan Ryan is the #2 with Browner out the first 4 games.

jsull87 · Aug 14, 2014

Deus Irae said:
If there's one thing you really want to do with a guy who doesn't play particularly well in space, it's got to be putting that guy in a position where he has to play in space.

That's the perfect recipe for success.

Genuine question. Does Browner actually not play well in space? I seem to remember some youtube videos (not indictive of general play) where he is laying people out while covering in zone.

Could it possibly be scheme related as Pats and Seahawks played more man and therefore he could have gotten this reputation? I am not sure as i have not seen a ton of him playing other than the highlights.

ausbacker · Aug 14, 2014

jsull87 said:
Genuine question. Does Browner actually not play well in space? I seem to remember some youtube videos (not indictive of general play) where he is laying people out while covering in zone.

Could it possibly be scheme related as Pats and Seahawks played more man and therefore he could have gotten this reputation? I am not sure as i have not seen a ton of him playing other than the highlights.

From what I have seen, Browner can play in space but usually overcomes his limited speed with brute force. Think of a player who tries to dislodge the ball by hammering the intended WR/TE/RB rather than beating them with coverage.

hwc · Aug 14, 2014

According to Kirwin, Browner's strength is his ability to force a receiver to take the outside release and then using his size to make it just about impossible for the QB to throw the fade to the sideline. It's a stifling to a good passing offense. The danger is that press coverage leaves you vulnerable to a go route, but not if you can roll the safeties over to back up the press coverage. The kicker is that, with Revis Island on the other side, you can afford to roll the the coverage behind Browner and allow him to be very aggressive, knowing that he's got deep help.

If you want to pressure the QB, then taking away the quick releases off the line is a sure fire way to up the sack totals.

I would also note that Browner's skill set should be very helpful against outside running plays, something that is very important when your base defense is a nickle package.

Snake Eyes · Aug 14, 2014

shmessy said:
That doesn't scare me, because he isn't a #1 CB. That won't make the Jets any better

But what would bother me is holding onto one trick pony STers like Chris White or Nate Ebner or JaGared Davis instead of using an STer who can actually play a position too.

If he's better at what the Jets have at CB, he will indeed make them better.

supafly · Aug 14, 2014

shmessy said:
2) "Ryan has better range which would make him better suited to playing safety than Browner."

Better FREE safety. Not STRONG safety. SS is the weakest position on this roster right now. If McCourty goes down, yes, I want Ryan in his spot. But Ryan playing next to McCourty is a redundancy.

When the initial reports/rumors came out about the possibility of Ryan moving to safety full-time with "the bulk of his reps in TC expected to be at safety," the belief was that he would take over McCourty's spot, thus moving McCourty to the other side and playing closer to the LOS.

jmt57 · Aug 14, 2014

Postcard from Patriots camp: Day 16 | CSNNE.com

Some excerpts:

WHAT WE SAW
* Gronkowski got some extra receiving reps with tight ends coach Brian Daboll while both teams worked on onsides kicks.

* Nate Solder left the practice with about 15 minutes remaining. He was accompanied by a team staffer, but the reason for his departure was unknown.

* One difference from last week's walk-through with the Redskins, per colleague Mike Giardi, was that Tom Brady and other New England starters appeared to get more half-speed reps. That could potentially be an indication that we'll see some of those players for a handful of plays on Friday night. In last week's preseason game, many starters were in uniform but did not participate.

WHO'S HOT
* Gronkowski caught a touchdown pass while working on air with Tom Brady and five other teammates. Julian Edelman and Gronkowski both feigned excitement, which appeared to be the most emotion shown all day.

WHO'S NOT
* Hard to have a bad day in a walk-through. Didn't notice any blatant missteps.

supafly · Aug 14, 2014

JMC00 said:
Jeff Howe said on CSNNE that right now based on camp he thinks Logan Ryan is the #2 with Browner out the first 4 games.

Howe has been banging this drum for weeks now.

While I've never bought into Ryan being a full-time safety, I'm not sure that he's clearly beaten out Dennard myself.

I think it's more to do about Dennard's injury than it is about Ryan's play. That said, I have read multiple reports that claimed that Ryan has clearly been the stand out CB this TC (aside from the obvious choice in Revis), even if he was playing the slot in the 1st preseason game and not looking as sharp.

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