B6 Camp Notes - Can I have gravy on my crow? Can someone get Boyce a 5 hour energy?

Oh, NOOOooooes!

Brady6 said:

You should read my first post again about targets and Amendola. I quoted it for you here. You will clearly see you are wrong. My opinion is consistent from beginning to end.

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I read the post. I quoted it to you. You quoted it yourself. It clearly states: "Realistically Amendola is never going to have a 100+ catches and 1000+ yards...". Again, you only started talking about targets to move the goal posts.

Also so you know we primarily run an offense that is an X-WR, Z-WR, H-WR, and Y-TE so I'm not sure where the stressing of the Y-WR is coming from.

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If Gronk is lined up in the slot between the flanker and the T, he'll be the Y. If it's Amendola in the slot and Gronk on the LOS, Amendola is the Y. The latter is what you'll see the most of when both are on the field at the same time. To illustrate, this is a set of plays from New England's playbook...

The 100 catch remark is valid I'm not sure how many times you expect Brady to throw it but any receiver catching 100 footballs seems very unlikely to me.

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And I honestly hope it doesn't happen. That means the other WR's are getting open too. But you said that it wasn't going to ever happen with Amendola and that seemed to be taking it too far for me. Amendola could easily get 100 catches in this offense if he's healthy simply because the slot receiver is such an important cog in the machine.

KontradictioN said:

I read the post. I quoted it to you. You quoted it yourself. It clearly states: "Realistically Amendola is never going to have a 100+ catches and 1000+ yards...". Again, you only started talking about targets to move the goal posts.

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I started talking about targets in the same breath to explain why a 100 catches would not happen. You have a hard time admitting you are wrong I take it.

I think you are wrong to assume Amendola is only going to play in the slot and Edelman is not going to see any time there. Edelman has done nothing in the offseason or camp to remove himself from being the #1 WR option. In fact he has only solidified his place. For Amendola to catch 100 footballs you would have to be projecting a major change in Edelman's role and I really see nothing to base that on.

You are basically saying Amendola is going to play the role that Edelman played last season. Which implies Edelman has done something to lose his role. Edelman was an offseason award winner and has had the best camp of any WR so I don't get your thinking.

So much for that crow eating.....

skspikex2 said:

So much for that crow eating.....

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That's not true I still think he is primed to have a good season. I just think Gronkowski and Edelman are too and they are 1 and 2 in the offense.

Basically unless I say Amendola is going to have 150 catches and 1500 yards I'm going to be accused of putting him down as a player. It's stupid and just a way for posters who enjoy conflict to get their rocks off. I can tell you before I even mention the name Amendola the names of the 5-6 posters who are going to come a running like it's free donut day at Krispy Cream.

Brady6 said:

I started talking about targets in the same breath to explain why a 100 catches would not happen. You have a hard time admitting you are wrong I take it.

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Actually, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong... if I'm wrong. You'll find that I admit this more than most of the "top" posters here. But in this instance, I'm not wrong. You stated Amendola would never get 100 catches, I've argued why he would. Let's keep this on topic.

I think you are wrong to assume Amendola is only going to play in the slot and Edelman is not going to see any time there. Edelman has done nothing in the offseason or camp to remove himself from being the #1 WR option. In fact he has only solidified his place.

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Edelman is not a slot receiver. His skill set and how he was used in 2013 spell that out. Further, you've made this very argument before in the past. He'll line up on the outside while Amendola will line up in the slot unless he's injured and has to miss time.

For Amendola to catch 100 footballs you would have to be projecting a major change in Edelman's role and I really see nothing to base that on.

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Not really. Both receivers could haul in 100 catches since Brady likes the short to intermediate game if both are healthy. Or one player can easily haul in 90 balls while the other goes over 100 (ala the 2011 team with Welker and Gronk). Neither would require what you call a "major change" in Edelman's role.

You are basically saying Amendola is going to play the role that Edelman played last season. Which implies Edelman has done something to lose his role. Edelman was an offseason award winner and has had the best camp of any WR so I don't get your thinking.

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Again, Edelman was not and is not the Y receiver.

KontradictioN said:

Actually, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong... if I'm wrong. You'll find that I admit this more than most of the "top" posters here. But in this instance, I'm not wrong. You stated Amendola would never get 100 catches, I've argued why he would. Let's keep this on topic.



Edelman is not a slot receiver. His skill set and how he was used in 2013 spell that out. Further, you've made this very argument before in the past. He'll line up on the outside while Amendola will line up in the slot unless he's injured and has to miss time.



Not really. Both receivers could haul in 100 catches since Brady likes the short to intermediate game if both are healthy. Or one player can easily haul in 90 balls while the other goes over 100 (ala the 2011 team with Welker and Gronk). Neither would require what you call a "major change" in Edelman's role.



Again, Edelman was not and is not the Y receiver.

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Edelman is a slot receiver, he moves outside to the Z-WR to accommodate Amendola. If you do not believe that I would suggest watching the final 8 games of 2013. Amendola entered the game as the 3rd WR in the base offense it was Edelman either in the slot or at the Z-WR position and an outside X-WR. If you think that the base offense is going to be 2 WRs with very similar skill sets you are not thinking clearly and more interested in building a case for Amendola to have 100 catches.

If Edelman was injured Amendola would step in and have the starting role in which case he could potentially catch 100 footballs. He is not going to catch 100 footballs entering the game only in 3-WR or more formations and I see no reason that he would be in the game ahead of a healthy Edelman and we are not going to put one of them at the X-WR.

Brady completes about 400 passes a year if they both caught 100 balls that would mean that 200 catches were divided amongst Gronkowski, Vereen, LaFell, Thompkins, and all other offensive players. You are really reaching here. You projecting Amendola to double his production in 2014 and for him and Edelman to both have 100 catches.

I told you he would not have a 100 catches because based on his career catch percentage he would need 160 targets to get there, and I see no way that Brady targets one player in this offense 160 times. This is not about Amendola or my like or dislike for him, like I said he is having a good camp, Edelman is having a better one and Gronkowski is a top 5 offensive weapon when healthy. You need to be realistic and right now you aren't being it at all. That's just the reality baring an injury Amendola will not catch 100 footballs and his success will have to be determined in other ways, that is what I said in my first post and it is what I am saying again here. If you would like to wager on it let me know otherwise stop spinning on the wheel like a mouse because you're not getting to the cheese.

I talked about Boyce, LaFell, Dobson, Thompkins, and the OL in this thread. Would you like to discuss any of those things or do you just want to continue to make everything about Amendola and then pretend it is me who has the obsession. How many of you posts that you mention Amendola in do I quote that are not in response to you quoting one of my posts? None ever, you and 4-5 others come at me if I say his name and then call it a crusade because I respond to you posts. Maybe we should take a look at posting history because I have never initiated contact with you regarding Amendola. It has been you every time.

I do not start these debates I challenge you Bruins and Ivan to find one post where I quoted on of your posts with Amendola in it first . There are none...ZERO!

pencilneckgeek said:

And to think that they made defensive touching a point-of-emphasis this year.

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But not after the catch. After the catch it is open season. Every goon in the defensive backfield and every goon linebacker will be gunning for his knees. They will say that they were only trying to tackle him, but they will be aiming for the knees. Gronk better learn how get to the turf quick after the catch and not try to bull his way to more yards.

FredFromDartmouth said:

But not after the catch. After the catch it is open season. Every goon in the defensive backfield and every goon linebacker will be gunning for his knees. They will say that they were only trying to tackle him, but they will be aiming for the knees. Gronk better learn how get to the turf quick after the catch and not try to bull his way to more yards.

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Hopefully, he'll get in some training time with Chandler's brother and learn how to throw a good knee to the head on the fly.

Brady6 said:

Edelman is a slot receiver, he moves outside to the Z-WR to accommodate Amendola. If you do not believe that I would suggest watching the final 8 games of 2013. Amendola entered the game as the 3rd WR in the base offense it was Edelman either in the slot or at the Z-WR position and an outside X-WR. If you think that the base offense is going to be 2 WRs with very similar skill sets you are not thinking clearly and more interested in building a case for Amendola to have 100 catches.

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Actually, I think the base is going to be 3WR. That's pretty clearly what the team has been transitioning to. Again, in that case, Amendola was the slot receiver while Edelman was outside, either as the flanker or as the split end. As for the final 8 games statement, I watched every game last year and I honestly don't remember Edelman manning the slot with any sort of frequency. I even Googled this to see whether or not anybody backed you up on it and didn't find anything outside of a quote that Edelman "doesn't look like a 1,000-yard receiver, much less one who doesn't typically line up in the slot", from an NFL article. Can you cite where you got that? It seems even more curious when, again, you've made arguments in the past about Edelman not being a slot receiver.

If Edelman was injured Amendola would step in and have the starting role in which case he could potentially catch 100 footballs. He is not going to catch 100 footballs entering the game only in 3-WR or more formations and I see no reason that he would be in the game ahead of a healthy Edelman and we are not going to put one of them at the X-WR.

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Again, if the Pats are attempting a pass, they'll more that likely go three wide. That means both will be on the field at the same time. That may change if we get a viable move TE in there with Gronk but all accounts seem to be that the Pats are moving to a 3WR base.

Brady completes about 400 passes a year if they both caught 100 balls that would mean that 200 catches were divided amongst Gronkowski, Vereen, LaFell, Thompkins, and all other offensive players. You are really reaching here. You projecting Amendola to double his production in 2014 and for him and Edelman to both have 100 catches.

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You're beginning to make a straw man here. Let's go back over how we got here:

1. You stated that Amendola would never have a 100 catch season.

2. I stated he COULD and highlighted how he could on top of what I believe would stop him.

In this instance, what I did was highlight how both of them could produce either over 100 catches or near it. I gave you Gronk (90) and Welker (122) in 2011 as an example. So I don't see where I'm stretching here. But, if you want to go by projections, then it's more likely that at least one of the two will be injured.

I told you he would not have a 100 catches because based on his career catch percentage he would need 160 targets to get there, and I see no way that Brady targets one player in this offense 160 times. This is not about Amendola or my like or dislike for him, like I said he is having a good camp, Edelman is having a better one and Gronkowski is a top 5 offensive weapon when healthy. You need to be realistic and right now you aren't being it at all. That's just the reality baring an injury Amendola will not catch 100 footballs and his success will have to be determined in other ways, that is what I said in my first post and it is what I am saying again here. If you would like to wager on it let me know otherwise stop spinning on the wheel like a mouse because you're not getting to the cheese.

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I don't think he will, either. But, again, this is a straw man that you've invented because you were having trouble attacking my actual point. Again: Realistically Amendola is never going to have a 100+ catches and 1000+ yards. That's not very unrealistic at all. There are actually quite a few ways that could happen and it all starts with the value placed on the role the Y WR plays in this offense.

If Gronk stays healthy he is the leading WR in yards. With good slots and young WR talents growing its up for grabs who is the #2 WR. At least in yards gained. I know most don't agree but I like Kenbrell and his lightning moves off the line and suddenness and instant burst in his breaks. I think the more snaps he gets the more comfortable and natural he will feel running routes and catching. Brady always talks good about his players but when Kenbrell or Dobson is mentioned you can see the 5 hour energy kick in. Especially when talking about Kenbrell. There is something Brady really likes in Kenbrell.

KontradictioN said:

Actually, I think the base is going to be 3WR. That's pretty clearly what the team has been transitioning to. Again, in that case, Amendola was the slot receiver while Edelman was outside, either as the flanker or as the split end. As for the final 8 games statement, I watched every game last year and I honestly don't remember Edelman manning the slot with any sort of frequency. I even Googled this to see whether or not anybody backed you up on it and didn't find anything outside of a quote that Edelman "doesn't look like a 1,000-yard receiver, much less one who doesn't typically line up in the slot", from an NFL article. Can you cite where you got that? It seems even more curious when, again, you've made arguments in the past about Edelman not being a slot receiver.



Again, if the Pats are attempting a pass, they'll more that likely go three wide. That means both will be on the field at the same time. That may change if we get a viable move TE in there with Gronk but all accounts seem to be that the Pats are moving to a 3WR base.



You're beginning to make a straw man here. Let's go back over how we got here:

1. You stated that Amendola would never have a 100 catch season.

2. I stated he COULD and highlighted how he could on top of what I believe would stop him.

In this instance, what I did was highlight how both of them could produce either over 100 catches or near it. I gave you Gronk (90) and Welker (122) in 2011 as an example. So I don't see where I'm stretching here. But, if you want to go by projections, then it's more likely that at least one of the two will be injured.



I don't think he will, either. But, again, this is a straw man that you've invented because you were having trouble attacking my actual point. Again: Realistically Amendola is never going to have a 100+ catches and 1000+ yards. That's not very unrealistic at all. There are actually quite a few ways that could happen and it all starts with the value placed on the role the Y WR plays in this offense.

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I will be completely honest and say although we do not see eye to eye all the time, I actually consider you to be one of the best posters on this board, and enjoy what you post so I am not going to continue to beat this dead horse with you and create future animosity. I will just say this, in general I do not actually have a jihad against Amendola, I have one against the posters who berate me anytime I mention Amendola’s name because frankly it annoys me and pisses me off. I thought Amendola had a disappointing season for us in 2013, and maybe that was as a result of the groin injury and maybe it was other factors, either way I was not impressed. I thought he did OK. I hate when people blindly make excuses for a player just because they like the player for whatever reason and I feel like many do that for Amendola, I feel like part of it has to do with an unwillingness to admit that maybe Amendola over Welker was not a great idea and by saying Amendola was not impressive in 2013 you are essentially admitting that. The other thing about Amendola is he is sort of like a girl you go out drinking with have a great time and think the night is going to end in bed but then she suddenly becomes ill, you want to see her again because you always think the next time is going to be different, so you hang on and hold out hope.

As far as him catching 100 balls and having 1000 yards it is very unlikely, maybe I should not have said “not ever” because anything is possible but he has consistently been a 60-80 catch, 600-700 yard receiver in his 5 year career, and now he plays on a team with a player like Edelman who no matter where he lines up runs similar routes and plays a similar brand of football, LaFell who also plays a similar game, Dobson and Thompkins emerging in their second seasons, Gronkowski the all world TE returning intent to play the entire season, and Vereen a player who had nearly 50 catches in 8 games last season. I expect Amendola to catch 55-65 balls for 600-700 yards and 2-3 touchdowns, and i think that is perfectly fine, he will have 3-4 huge games that he will impact the outcome of positively and he will help the offense overall. That in my opinion is a reasonable expectation, if you want to expect more be my guest but I am not going to agree with you, I do not think Amendola was 54% of the player he normally is last season so I do not think he is going to have 100 catches after just 54 in 2013. In addition I actually think Edelman is going to be an even better player this season and see the most targets of any WR, and Dobson is going to make a huge leap this season and have himself 900-1000 yard receiving season on the outside.

Brady6 said:

I will be completely honest and say although we do not see eye to eye all the time, I actually consider you to be one of the best posters on this board, and enjoy what you post so I am not going to continue to beat this dead horse with you and create future animosity.

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My man.

Brady6 said:

I feel like part of it has to do with an unwillingness to admit that maybe Amendola over Welker was not a great idea and by saying Amendola was not impressive in 2013 you are essentially admitting that.

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A bit off topic, but since you brought it up, I think the Wes Welker situation became a huge pissing match between him and Belichick. Just my opinion. Something tells me that even Belichick knew somewhere in the back of his head that it wasn't a great decision, but he was holding firm in the offer and was confident in the team/system.

Brady6 said:

The other thing about Amendola is he is sort of like a girl you go out drinking with have a great time and think the night is going to end in bed but then she suddenly becomes ill, you want to see her again because you always think the next time is going to be different, so you hang on and hold out hope.

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Interesting analogy. I would kick that chick to the curb after the 2nd time she pulled that stunt though.

(our women posters know that I'm only kidding.....I'd actually have kicked her to the curb after the first time)

Joker said:

just my luck...I got an adductor shortus injury and nobody gives a shyt.

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Man, that sounds painfull. Can they adjust your adductor to compensate for your shorts?

Brady6 said:

Realistically Amendola is never going to have a 100+ catches and 1000+ yards because he could be anything from the #3 option to the #5 option in the offense, he is sure to be behind Gronkowski and Edelman, and then we will see how Dobson and LaFell fit into the mix. GIven that his success is going to have to be measured differently, it will be more about him making impact plays with the 75-90 targets he will probably see in 2014. If he can catch a high rate of his targets, average 11-12 yards a catch, and convert key first downs I will consider the season a success, I would like to see some level of consistency but they be hard for him since he is not a top 2 option and could fit into the mix differently depending on game plans.

Amendola and Edelman are terrific to have on the team but at the end of the day what is going to make the difference is Gronkowski, Dobson, and LaFell, we need those players to step up and make big plays, because most of Edelman and Amendola’s catches are going to be efficient but unspectacular. Last season when Gronkowski and Dobson were out we lacked the big play threat, and it was problematic.

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We will have to see if a healthy amendola would be behind Edelman. That is not a given.

Think we should all try to lose the egos as much as poss. Altho I know first hand how hard that is.. Love, kindness, progressive growth, & insight.>>>> wwjd. Let's talk sense & futbol

AndyJohnson said:

We will have to see if a healthy amendola would be behind Edelman. That is not a given.

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I actually consider it to be and that is not knocking Amendola that is speaking to how much Edelman has developed. I have been to 4 practices and Edelman is playing like an all pro. He has confidence like he belongs and he understands the position a lot better than in prior years. You will be very pleased with what Edelman shows this season. I have been beyond impressed with what I have seen. Amendola and LaFell both have looked good in camp too. The WR group should take a big leap forward this season.

Brady6 said:

I will be completely honest and say although we do not see eye to eye all the time, I actually consider you to be one of the best posters on this board, and enjoy what you post so I am not going to continue to beat this dead horse with you and create future animosity. I will just say this, in general I do not actually have a jihad against Amendola, I have one against the posters who berate me anytime I mention Amendola’s name because frankly it annoys me and pisses me off. I thought Amendola had a disappointing season for us in 2013, and maybe that was as a result of the groin injury and maybe it was other factors, either way I was not impressed. I thought he did OK. I hate when people blindly make excuses for a player just because they like the player for whatever reason and I feel like many do that for Amendola, I feel like part of it has to do with an unwillingness to admit that maybe Amendola over Welker was not a great idea and by saying Amendola was not impressive in 2013 you are essentially admitting that. The other thing about Amendola is he is sort of like a girl you go out drinking with have a great time and think the night is going to end in bed but then she suddenly becomes ill, you want to see her again because you always think the next time is going to be different, so you hang on and hold out hope.

As far as him catching 100 balls and having 1000 yards it is very unlikely, maybe I should not have said “not ever” because anything is possible but he has consistently been a 60-80 catch, 600-700 yard receiver in his 5 year career, and now he plays on a team with a player like Edelman who no matter where he lines up runs similar routes and plays a similar brand of football, LaFell who also plays a similar game, Dobson and Thompkins emerging in their second seasons, Gronkowski the all world TE returning intent to play the entire season, and Vereen a player who had nearly 50 catches in 8 games last season. I expect Amendola to catch 55-65 balls for 600-700 yards and 2-3 touchdowns, and i think that is perfectly fine, he will have 3-4 huge games that he will impact the outcome of positively and he will help the offense overall. That in my opinion is a reasonable expectation, if you want to expect more be my guest but I am not going to agree with you, I do not think Amendola was 54% of the player he normally is last season so I do not think he is going to have 100 catches after just 54 in 2013. In addition I actually think Edelman is going to be an even better player this season and see the most targets of any WR, and Dobson is going to make a huge leap this season and have himself 900-1000 yard receiving season on the outside.

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You hate Danny with a passion no one else here has. If he fails, he fails. I'll do the research if you want, but he's by far not the only one.

OhExaulted1 said:

You hate Danny with a passion no one else here has. If he fails, he fails. I'll do the research if you want, but he's by far not the only one.

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You can do the research. I am the most outspoken and most responsive when others quote my posts. I do not initiate the debates. I say the name Amendola and then the Amendola defense team gets an alert on their pagers and report to the thread and I end up going back and forth with them. I think we all can agree 2014 is a defining year for Amendola. I am looking forward to watching it unfold either way.

OhExaulted1 said:

Man, that sounds painfull. Can they adjust your adductor to compensate for your shorts?

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yeah...the doctor told me he could perform an addadicktomy but it's not covered by Medicare so I'd have to shell out Keith Richards type coin to get it done. Currently I'm researching stone age tribes and their methods of using the Amazonian rain forest flora to solve my er...uh..."problem"...