***THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread***

Marqui said:

You're not allowed to say that man. You're going to be labeled as crazy and no one agrees with you if you say Butler is going to make the team.

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You are allowed to say it. You have the right to be incorrect, and the consequences is many people will tell you so.

Actually saying he could make the team is not crazy, but calling him a lock certainly is.

He has a chance, but the incredible overrating of this player that is going on now is bizarre.

patchick said:

We do see camp phenoms who flop all the time -- but they don't look like Malcolm Butler.

Usually Mr. Preseason is a receiver who becomes the backup QB's favorite target, but can't carry that success to the 1st team. (IOW, he fails at "Being Where Mr. Brady Wants You, When He Wants You There.") Occasionally he's a measurables freak who makes us starry-eyed with his size or speed but can't, you know, play football.

But a camp phenom who earns his status by consistently sticking to receivers' back pockets and showing well on special teams? Different animal, IMO.

No, I'm not projecting Butler to the starting lineup! I just think he's firmly on track for a roster spot at this point. (I also think that the trade of Justin Green, who was directly behind him on my mental depth chart, supports the idea.)

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I'm in agreement with you and I don't think it's unreasonable to say the kid is on track for a roster spot. It should be stated with the caveat that preseason success and making the 53 isn't a guarantee of great regular season success though. Sudfeld followed that path, and though Kenbrell Thompkins showed well for a rookie receiver in a tough system, he was a far less consistent player once the action got real.

I think it should be enough to be encouraged by Butler's performance, especially considering the opening provided by Browner's suspension. Prior to his "emergence", we were left wondering how that spot would be filled, and god forbid what would happen if an injury creating yet another opening. Now at least there's a glimmer that someone is rising to that challenge. That's the best part of camp IMO.

AndyJohnson said:

You are allowed to say it. You have the right to be incorrect, and the consequences is many people will tell you so.
Actually saying he could make the team is not crazy, but calling him a lock certainly is.
He has a chance, but the incredible overrating of this player that is going on now is bizarre.

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It's bizarre, but also common this time of year. Especially in light of Dennard's injury, Ryan's struggles in game 1, and the fact that we're used to inconsistent play from the CB's in recent years. We see this every year with a long shot player who shows well in camp, and I think CB is unusually prone to it this year due to the circumstances.

Marqui said:

Here's another opinion about it:

Wednesday's New England Patriots training camp roundup: Brandon LaFell shows improvement, Malcom Butler on the verge of 53-man roster lock | Masslive

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Thats an awesome source you have there. A teenager who covers HS lacrosse and soccer?

Jack Flagler | [email protected]
About Me:
MassLive reporter covering boys & girls lacrosse, girls basketball and girls soccer.

His logic also was the we have been through a MAJOR round of cuts, when we are still at 90.

Nice try.

Maybe another way to put it is: Butler is a lock to make an NFL roster this year; the only question is whether it will be with the Pats.

JDot said:

Something is up with Mayo.

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He may also be on family bereavement, or his partner had another child. If we ever find out, it will be when he returns.

Since the draft the Patriots have signed seven tight ends and cut six of them. Only Maneri remains.
What an exercise in futility!

Jimke said:

Since the draft the Patriots have signed seven tight ends and cut six of them. Only Maneri remains.
What an exercise in futility!

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Reiss:

Patriots have made seven roster transactions at tight end since Sunday.

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BB has certainly burned through the TEs over the years. Would be interesting to see a list of how many he's drafted and/or signed over the years here.

Sicilian said:

It's bizarre, but also common this time of year. Especially in light of Dennard's injury, Ryan's struggles in game 1, and the fact that we're used to inconsistent play from the CB's in recent years. We see this every year with a long shot player who shows well in camp, and I think CB is unusually prone to it this year due to the circumstances.

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I have a different take.

Ryan made a couple of poor plays in that game, which I do not consider 'struggling' and does little or nothing to erode my assessment of him.

Butler was targeted often playing against mediocre 1s and a bunch of 2s. He competed, but the fact that he was targeted so often says those QBs felt he was beaten. Great that he recovered on a lot of them, but somehow fans are viewing that as awesome where awesome is covering so tight, the QB won't throw at you.

Butler is small and slow. I like that he competes, but when he is exposed I think we are going to see a guy who is playing to the limit of his ability to be decent against decent players, but won't be able to stay with better players. That is the story of 'camp stars'.

To be comparing him to Dennard is just ludicrous. IMO.

AndyJohnson said:

Thats an awesome source you have there. A teenager who covers HS lacrosse and soccer?

Jack Flagler | [email protected]
About Me:
MassLive reporter covering boys & girls lacrosse, girls basketball and girls soccer.

His logic also was the we have been through a MAJOR round of cuts, when we are still at 90.

Nice try.

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Excellent find, Andy. Way too often people are making assessments based on comments from "sources" that are from the likes of Jack Flagler. I always have to smile when people are swayed by a comment from Mike Reiss. Mike is the premier beat reporter covering the Pats, but when he strays into analysis and player evaluation you have to take it with a grain of salt. What I want to hear from Mike is when he starts his evaluations with, "my sources within the organization have been telling me that...... " I turn him off when it starts, "I think....."

When a former coach, or even certain players make evaluations they have some credibility (depending on the coach or player of course). But I can never understand why anyone would get excited or depressed based on anything a media puke might opine. BTW- The only mediot I would exclude from from this assessment is Field Yates, who was a former NFL scout.

Jimke said:

Since the draft the Patriots have signed seven tight ends and cut six of them. Only Maneri remains.
What an exercise in futility!

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Eh, I think it's more of a strategy than an exercise in futility.

Lets use the 90 man roster to run as many fringe guys through here as we can to find the best one.

I think we are talking about the 3rd TE, a guy who play maybe 5 snaps a game and do nothing but block. I'm sure there are dozens of candidates out there, so this is just a tryout process.

Solder left field early with staff

patfanken said:

Excellent find, Andy. Way too often people are making assessments based on comments from "sources" that are from the likes of Jack Flagler. I always have to smile when people are swayed by a comment from Mike Reiss. Mike is the premier beat reporter covering the Pats, but when he strays into analysis and player evaluation you have to take it with a grain of salt. What I want to hear from Mike is when he starts his evaluations with, "my sources within the organization have been telling me that...... " I turn him off when it starts, "I think....."

When a former coach, or even certain players make evaluations they have some credibility (depending on the coach or player of course). But I can never understand why anyone would get excited or depressed based on anything a media puke might opine. BTW- The only mediot I would exclude from from this assessment is Field Yates, who was a former NFL scout.

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The same people who think Bill Belichicks decisions are poor, lean on the opinion of anyone on the internet as long as it supports theirs.

Butler played 67 snaps, was targeted 7 times, and allowed 2 receptions. Andre Roberts is in no way a mediocre WR and he had 0 receptions on the night. Aldrick Robinson is one of the fastest WRs in the NFL and Butler kept up with him. Meanwhile, Ryan was busy getting beat by him.

Ex players & the media thought he played great. From a national standpoint, Riddick's main takeaway from the game was Butler as well.

AndyJohnson said:

I have a different take.
Ryan made a couple of poor plays in that game, which I do not consider 'struggling' and does little or nothing to erode my assessment of him.
Butler was targetted often playing against mediocre 1s and a bunch of 2s. He competed, but the fact that he was targetted so often says those QBs felt he was beaten. Great that he recovered on a lot of them, but somehow fans are viewing that as awesome where awesome is covering so tight, the QB won't throw at you.
Butler is small and slow. I like that he competes, but when he is exposed I think we are going to see a guy who is playing to the limit of his ability to be decent against decent players, but won't be able to stay with better players. That is the story of 'camp stars'.
To be comparing him to Dennard is just ludicrous. IMO.

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He wasn't thrown at 60 out of 67 snaps. Andre Roberts isn't mediocre. How many times are you going to keep saying he didn't have a great game?

Also, the best CB in the league disagrees with your take about being thrown at.

No Mayo for 3rd day...hope nothing serious

Brady_to_Moss said:

Solder left field early with staff

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The injury bug is starting early this season.

patchick said:

Usually Mr. Preseason is a receiver who becomes the backup QB's favorite target, but can't carry that success to the 1st team. (IOW, he fails at "Being Where Mr. Brady Wants You, When He Wants You There.") Occasionally he's a measurables freak who makes us starry-eyed with his size or speed but can't, you know, play football.

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Or a running back who reels off huge numbers against sub-standard tackling.

(That said, I was fully on the Quentin Sims bandwagon last season. I mean, anyone who can grab two TDs from Tim Tebow must be able to add value. )

Uncle Rico said:

Reiss:


BB has certainly burned through the TEs over the years. Would be interesting to see a list of how many he's drafted and/or signed over the years here.

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It would be nice if he ever signed/drafted some good ones, besides Gronk and the prisoner

patsinthesnow said:

He wasn't thrown at 60 out of 67 snaps. Andre Roberts isn't mediocre. How many times are you going to keep saying he didn't have a great game?

Also, the best CB in the league disagrees with your take about being thrown at.

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They didn't attempt 67 passes, they attempted 26. 4 were by the starters. They completed 19 of them.
If you don't think 7 targets out of 26 attempts is not a lot, I'm not sure what to say.

Andre Roberts is pretty much the definition of mediocre, catching 43 passes in a full season last year, and averaging 46 a year for his career.

He also spend a lot of time covering Aldrick Robinson, who had his career high 18 catches last year.

Seriously you are going to take comments from Sherman defending why he is better than a guy who never gets thrown at as some type of evidence that its better coverage if the QB sees your man being open than if he doesn't? Really?

I get the root for the underdog mentality, but lets keep some semblance of realistic thought.