***THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread***

It's like trying to tell Phillipe that his falcon, Thor, is dead....

Marqi, training camp and preseason games are for rotating and seeing different players in different situations. If someone starts or plays more than anyone else (unless it is game 3) it means zilch. The sooner you understand that, the better.

Andy, regarding Butler, did you actually watch that game and see a better Patriot defensive performance that night? I'd be interested in hearing who that would be. Butler, not just from my eyes, but from Reiss to Curran to Howe to Chatham had an excellent performance that night - - not just at CB but on ST's. I will repeat, he is NOT beating out revis, Browner, Logan, Dennard or Arrington. His roster spot will come down to whether he is valued more as an all-around player than Nate Ebner or Chris White. Of THAT question, I feel pretty confident in saying yes. Butler on the roster as a CB/ST would give BB flexibility to move Ryan to Safety 2 (the weakest position depth on the roster currently). BB has surprised many times in the past (cutting James Sanders and leaving no one decent for S2?). He may do it again, who knows?

mgteich said:

It would seem likely that we carry 5 corners for the first 4 weeks, with Butler being one of the five, at least for some of that period. When Browner is back, we'll have a decision to make. Do you disagree?

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I think Malcolm Butler's play has been opening some eyes, and earning him a longer look. If he is able to continue at this pace, he will make the decision on the coaches that much tougher.

That is all one can do when they're in a position like his, so he seems to be making the best of it.

Am I ready to definitely say that he is a roster lock for the 53 man roster like you are suggesting? No, at least not after one preseason game anyway. We will all be rooting for him, however.

Here's a decent article that just popped up on the front page (for tomorrow) regarding our CB situation:

After Darrelle Revis, Brandon Browner, corners battle for time | Boston Herald

As @shmessy points out, it's quite possible that we're looking at this incorrectly and Butler is competing for a special teams spot much more than a CB spot. If that's the case, then we may have found an upgrade over Marquise Cole, in a guy who is mainly a ST only player who can fill in at CB if/when needed due to injury.

supafly said:

Here's a decent article that just popped up on the front page (for tomorrow) regarding our CB situation:

After Darrelle Revis, Brandon Browner, corners battle for time | Boston Herald

As @shmessy points out, it's quite possible that we're looking at this incorrectly and Butler is competing for a special teams spot much more than a CB spot. If that's the case, then we may have found an upgrade over Marquise Cole, in a guy who is mainly a ST only player who can fill in at CB if/when needed due to injury.

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Finally, someone who sees the point!

Regarding Cole, since he's gone, the current upgrade Butler would represent would be over a one-note STer like Ebner or Chris White. In addition, Butler showing he can actually play CB gives the Pats the flexibility to slide Ryan to the weak depth S2 position. It makes too much sense.

Even if Butler players light out. He won't beat out Revis Browner, Dennard, Arrington in slot...Ryan ect. But ST? Or a project later down road? Could be


Now if he can play OL? We're golden!

Was watching NFL Live just now, and Wendi Nix mentioned some stats about Brady throwing more passes to rookie receivers than any other QB last season, and his drop in completion percentage when throwing to rookies.

Did some googling and found the corresponding ESPN article with details:
Did Pats rookies ruin Tom Brady in 2013? - Stats & Info Blog - ESPN

(Disclaimer: I've seen ESPN Stats & Info make errors/omissions before, but assuming they are to be believed...)

Brady threw...



Article is from back in June, but I missed it in the offseason shuffle. Just thought it was interesting. Veddy veddy interesting.

I am party said:

Was watching NFL Live just now, and Wendi Nix mentioned some stats about Brady throwing more passes to rookie receivers than any other QB last season, and his drop in completion percentage when throwing to rookies.

Did some googling and found the corresponding ESPN article with details:
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/91721/did-pats-rookies-ruin-tom-brady-in-2013

(Disclaimer: I've seen ESPN Stats & Info make errors/omissions before, but assuming they are to be believed...)

Brady threw...

...163 passes to rookies last season, the highest total of his career and 35 more than any other quarterback in the NFL.

On average, those pass attempts weren't particularly successful. His completion percentage on those throws was 47.9%, compared to better than 67% to all other targets.

That low completion percentage wasn't merely a symptom of poor chemistry. Patriots rookies dropped 8% of the passes they received from Brady, compared to a drop rate of 4.7% by other Patriots players.​

Article is from back in June, but I missed it in the offseason shuffle. Just thought it was interesting. Veddy veddy interesting.

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Yeah, last year was pretty much a failed experiment of receiving options. Once Gronk went down in week 14 or 15, that was it. They made it work much, much better than anyone else could've though, so you've got to give them (basically Brady) some serious credit. As a "real" SB contender though, I think we were done when Gronk went down, even though no one would ever admit that at the time.

This year should be much better. I think there was just too much turnover last year. We lost Welker, Hernandez, and LLyod. Of course, as you know, Gronk only played in 7 games. Amendola was hurt significantly. It was a bad place to be in.

Kenbrell Thompkins, Kyle Arrington, Chris Jones, Sealver Siliga, Julian Edelman.... You dont have to be a high pick to make the team.

If Butler performs like he did last week, you would be foolish to think he wouldn't make the team. Revis is not a sure-thing after this season anyways and I don't think BB would let Butler walk if he keeps performing well.

mgteich said:

I agree.

Didn't Ebner take a few reps with the 1's last week or the week before?

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Ebner still sucks at safety.

I predict one of Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson, Nate Ebner will be cut, barring injury at the safety position of course.

MrNathanDrake said:

Kenbrell Thompkins, Kyle Arrington, Chris Jones, Sealver Siliga, Julian Edelman.... You dont have to be a high pick to make the team.

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Sealver Siliga and Chris Jones were overwhelmed in the AFC Championship Game.

MrNathanDrake said:

If Butler performs like he did last week, you would be foolish to think he wouldn't make the team. Revis is not a sure-thing after this season anyways and I don't think BB would let Butler walk if he keeps performing well.

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I'd rather cut Browner to keep Revis.

MrNathanDrake said:

Kenbrell Thompkins, Kyle Arrington, Chris Jones, Sealver Siliga, Julian Edelman.... You dont have to be a high pick to make the team.

If Butler performs like he did last week, you would be foolish to think he wouldn't make the team. Revis is not a sure-thing after this season anyways and I don't think BB would let Butler walk if he keeps performing well.

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You're not allowed to say that man. You're going to be labeled as crazy and no one agrees with you if you say Butler is going to make the team.

Marqui said:

You're not allowed to say that man. You're going to be labeled as crazy and no one agrees with you if you say Butler is going to make the team.

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Brandon Browner is suspended for the first four games of the season.

supafly said:

Here's a decent article that just popped up on the front page (for tomorrow) regarding our CB situation:

After Darrelle Revis, Brandon Browner, corners battle for time | Boston Herald

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Here's another opinion about it:

Wednesday's New England Patriots training camp roundup: Brandon LaFell shows improvement, Malcom Butler on the verge of 53-man roster lock | Masslive

Marqui said:

You're not allowed to say that man. You're going to be labeled as crazy and no one agrees with you if you say Butler is going to make the team.

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Making the team, and what you were claiming (him being a top 2- 3 CB right now) are two totally different things

@Patriots: #Patriots release veteran TE Ben Hartsock:
Patriots release veteran TE Ben Hartsock | Patriots.com

No Gronk, Hooman, or Williams for tomorrow.

Develin & Maneri the only TEs in uniform for tomorrow's game. A FB and an ex-OT.

patsinthesnow said:

@Patriots: #Patriots release veteran TE Ben Hartsock:
http://t.co/WRirCKKkGU

No Gronk, Hooman, or Williams for tomorrow.

Develin & Maneri the only TEs in uniform for tomorrow's game. A FB and an ex-OT.

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I wouldn't be surprised if the starters don't play tomorrow at all.

I'm in the Butler bandwagon. If you add a ST player who can contribute in the positional role instead of a ST only player it's a win.

It's important to get in January with fresh legs. I can see us putting a big difference in the scoreboard in many games this year by the end of 3rd quarter, I would not mind BB to use 2nd unit when the score is settled.

supafly said:

@Marqui--while Malcolm Butler has been a very nice TC/preseason story, don't we see this every single year from a different player or two? Preseason super heroes who don't make the team?

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We do see camp phenoms who flop all the time -- but they don't look like Malcolm Butler.

Usually Mr. Preseason is a receiver who becomes the backup QB's favorite target, but can't carry that success to the 1st team. (IOW, he fails at "Being Where Mr. Brady Wants You, When He Wants You There.") Occasionally he's a measurables freak who makes us starry-eyed with his size or speed but can't, you know, play football.

But a camp phenom who earns his status by consistently sticking to receivers' back pockets and showing well on special teams? Different animal, IMO.

No, I'm not projecting Butler to the starting lineup! I just think he's firmly on track for a roster spot at this point. (I also think that the trade of Justin Green, who was directly behind him on my mental depth chart, supports the idea.)

Something is up with Mayo.

MikeReissMike Reiss
LB Jerod Mayo not present for Patriots-Eagles joint practices for third day in a row.
Jerod Mayo not present for New England Patriots practice - espnBoston (w/ @LeeSchechter)