B6 Camp Notes - Can I have gravy on my crow? Can someone get Boyce a 5 hour energy?

It is no secret that I have never had a nice thing to say about Danny Amendola (as a player) but he appears primed to have me choking down some crow. I was at camp yesterday and Amendola put an Allen Iverson ankle breaking move on an Eagles defender, it was outstanding. This article is a great read:

It Is What It Is >> Eagles OC Pat Shurmur: Patriots are 'lucky to have' Danny Amendola

Edelman is having a terrific offseason and camp, LaFell looks like he can be the swiss army knife we lost when Hernandez went rouge, combined with a healthy Dobson at the X-WR, and Amendola doing what he has done in camp this offense is going to be surgical. Oh wait then there is that Gronk character who happens to be the best TE on the planet when healthy.

The defense is getting a lot of love but this offense is primed for a huge season based on what I have seen at the 4 camp days I have attended.

@Joker I hope your fan club is ready to cheer...

On a side note Josh Boyce is going to have a really hard time making this team, he does not show 100% effort, the other WRs attack upfield when they catch the football in drills, I was watching Boyce and he jogs like he is playing catch with his friends. That low effort is very disappointing from a player who has the tools to be a terrific pro...

Props on your crow. The number of posts on this board is about to drop 20-30%.

B6 isn't Josh Boyce the Fastest! player on our Team? On Amendola with the others WR's who are alot bigger and probably more durable I would love the see the Patriots use Amendola in a Third Down Role. That way he wouldn't take a consistent beating using him in such a role would get the most out of his abilities imo.

It's not clear to me that Boyce is any faster than say KT, Edelman or Dobson. All those guys can really fly if you don't get your hands on them. Yes yes, combine measurables blah blah blah. You 'see' speed on the field, its usually pretty obvious and i'd take that over a stop watch any day of the week. For what its worth all of those guys look like they have NFL starter speed, although none have Randy Moss like speed.

PatsFan2 said:

B6 isn't Josh Boyce the Fastest! player on our Team? On Amendola with the others WR's who are alot bigger and probably more durable I would love the see the Patriots use Amendola in a Third Down Role. That way he wouldn't take a consistent beating using him in such a role would get the most out of his abilities imo.

Click to expand...

In terms of track speed Boyce is the fastest but he does not play that way. He reminds me of Taylor Price because he appears to be in a trance. If this was Seattle I have to assume Pete Carroll would have left a bottle of Adderall in his locker long ago.
I expect that Edelman will be the only WR that plays more than 80% of the teams snaps this season, other than that I think that they will mix up the personnel packages with Dobson, LaFell, Amendola, and Thompkins all seeing the field 50%-60% of the time in different sets.

I really like LaFell, I think he is going to be used as a chess piece, all over the field, he is actually really good inside and underneath but has the size and speed to get deep. Dobson looks about 15lbs heavier this season and Thompkins looks like he ate Roy Finch because he is a totally different size than he was in 2013. Playing against Revis and Browner is making an impact too, they do not drift off the line they make strong moves every rep.

What's going on with today's practice? I don't see the twitter feed on this site today

Nice write up, B6.

The passing game is going to be very good, provided that Gronk, Dobson, and the Pygmies stay healthy. The running game, I have a few more doubts about, but I think it will be solid by seasons end.

My big concert on the offensive side of the ball (aside from depth at TE), has to be this line. I swear, if this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, only to fall due to the play of our o-line, I will throw a piece of furniture into a television, especially if the team that beats us happens to be one like the Broncos, who have improved their pass rush this season (presumably, provided that Ware recovers from his down year, and that Miller comes back from his injury at at least 80%).

Efstratios said:

Nice write up, B6.

The passing game is going to be very good, provided that Gronk, Dobson, and the Pygmies stay healthy. The running game, I have a few more doubts about, but I think it will be solid by seasons end.

My big concert on the offensive side of the ball (aside from depth at TE), has to be this line. I swear, if this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, only to fall due to the play of our o-line, I will throw a piece of furniture into a television, especially if the team that beats us happens to be one like the Broncos, who have improved their pass rush this season (presumably, provided that Ware recovers from his down year, and that Miller comes back from his injury at at least 80%).

Click to expand...

Something I noticed that I have not read prior is a focus on them working with Solder on his technique, they seem to be trying to keep him more upright, which makes sense given all the concussions he suffered over the last 2 seasons. I do think there is going to be an adjustment period for that.

In addition, Vollmer is still working his way back into playing shape, and he does not completely trust his leg yet, but he seems 100%.

I think by week 1 the OL will be:

LT - Solder, Vollmer, Cannon
LG - Mankins, Kline, Halapio
OC - Connolly, Stork, Kline
RG - Cannon, Kline, Halapio
RT - Vollmer, Cannon, Fleming

Which is a line that talent wise could be one of the best OL we have had in many years.

This is my roster based on what I saw yesterday.

QB (2) Brady, Garoppolo
RB (4) Ridley, Vereen, White, Bolden
WR (6) Edelman, Dobson, Amendola, LaFell, Thompkins, Tyms
TE (3) Gronkowski, Hoomanawanui, Develin
C (2) Connolly, Stork
G (4) Mankins, Cannon, Halapio, Kline
T (3) Solder, Vollmer, Fleming
DE (4) Jones, Ninkovich, Buchanan, Moore
DT (5) Wilfork, Kelly, Easley, Worthy, Siliga
ILB(2) Mayo, Beauharnais
OLB(4) Collins, Hightower, Anderson, Fleming
CB (6) Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington, Butler
SS (4) Harmon, Wilson, Chung, Ebner
FS (2) McCourty, Thomas
ST (4) Gostkowski, Allen, Aiken, Slater

It is 55 players because Browner and Tyms do not count for the first 4 weeks. I have Chris Jones going on injured reserve designated to return. I went with just 4 DEs because I think they can use Easley and Worthy to go big and Hightower and Fleming to go small if need be. Mallett is either going to get traded or end up on injured reserve with the knee injury in my opinion.

Players to keep an eye on as dark horses in my opinion are:

Taylor McCullers - FB/LB
Jake Bequette - DE/LB
Jordan Devey - OL

If they can trust him with the football they may consider keeping Finch as a KR/PR but that seems like a long shot. I expect that James White will be the primary KR this season because Boyce is on the outside and I mean way outside right now.

Brady6 said:

This is my roster based on what I saw yesterday.

It is 55 players because Browner and Tyms do not count for the first 4 weeks. I have Chris Jones going on injured reserve designated to return. .

Click to expand...

Just as a roster management point of view, I have strong doubts about the value of putting the #4 or #5 DT when everyone is healthy on the IR to return designation instead of saving it for an as of now still healty player who gets starter snap counts going out in Week 1 through 5 or so. I would rather have the ability to IR with return a prime player than a nice to have depth piece even if that means holding a "dead" roster spot for the depth piece for two or three weeks OR placing that depth piece on season ending IR.

Personal preference

If Amendola is looking this good, then we have to pray that he doesn't do what he usually does: get injured. He would have been a weapon here last year but the injury in Week 1 really hampered what he could do and he was never really healthy after that.

KontradictioN said:

If Amendola is looking this good, then we have to pray that he doesn't do what he usually does: get injured. He would have been a weapon here last year but the injury in Week 1 really hampered what he could do and he was never really healthy after that.

Click to expand...

I hear you and I agree, that said with Edelman returning and the addition of LaFell I think we would be fine even if he did miss extended time. I would be happy with 12-14 games and 50-60% of the offensive snaps out of Amendola in 2014.

fester said:

Just as a roster management point of view, I have strong doubts about the value of putting the #4 or #5 DT when everyone is healthy on the IR to return designation instead of saving it for an as of now still healty player who gets starter snap counts going out in Week 1 through 5 or so. I would rather have the ability to IR with return a prime player than a nice to have depth piece even if that means holding a "dead" roster spot for the depth piece for two or three weeks OR placing that depth piece on season ending IR.

Personal preference

Click to expand...

Good thoughts I am onboard with that thinking.

KontradictioN said:

If Amendola is looking this good, then we have to pray that he doesn't do what he usually does: get injured. He would have been a weapon here last year but the injury in Week 1 really hampered what he could do and he was never really healthy after that.

Click to expand...

Bingo! I'll be happy to eat crow when he plays a full season. Talent/ability has never been the question, he's fantastic when healthy.

fester said:

Just as a roster management point of view, I have strong doubts about the value of putting the #4 or #5 DT when everyone is healthy on the IR to return designation instead of saving it for an as of now still healty player who gets starter snap counts going out in Week 1 through 5 or so. I would rather have the ability to IR with return a prime player than a nice to have depth piece even if that means holding a "dead" roster spot for the depth piece for two or three weeks OR placing that depth piece on season ending IR.

Personal preference

Click to expand...

IMO the long term IR is more of a benefit to middle to low tier players. If a major contributor gets hurt you would likely keep him on the 53 with or without the temporary IR. A lesser player gets hurt and you debate the value of the roster spot vs the return of the middle or low tier player.
Also you can only use it once and likely you aren't saving the hurt player but rather the 53rd player you would cut to make room for injured's sub. So player A might be a pro bowler and player B might be a fringe starter but short term IR for either saves player 53 from being cut in essence the short term IR saves the integrity of the roster the same regardless of the player assigned the tag.

I think more important than skill level of the injured player would be length of injury and available healthy bodies at said position.

@Off The Grid My man I'm just curious what you disagree with? I'm an amateur football fan so I maybe missing something in my observations.

Efstratios said:

Nice write up, B6.

The passing game is going to be very good, provided that Gronk, Dobson, and the Pygmies stay healthy. The running game, I have a few more doubts about, but I think it will be solid by seasons end.

My big concert on the offensive side of the ball (aside from depth at TE), has to be this line. I swear, if this team makes a deep run in the playoffs, only to fall due to the play of our o-line, I will throw a piece of furniture into a television, especially if the team that beats us happens to be one like the Broncos, who have improved their pass rush this season (presumably, provided that Ware recovers from his down year, and that Miller comes back from his injury at at least 80%).

Click to expand...

Funny, but I am not convinced about the receiving corps. Lots of potential there, but Gronk's and Amendola's inability to stay on the field, lack of a backup pass-catching TE, unknowns about Lafell and White, and lingering questions about Dobson and Thompkins as reliable receivers leaves me with confidence in only Julian Edelman and Shane Vereen in their roles.

Besides wanting to see Revis take the field in a Patriots uniform, I am most interested to see how the starters look in the passing game on Friday night. If it looks like Brady is in synch with Lafell, White and Thompkins, they could be formidable.

The offensive line will be fine, I think. The veterans are solid across the line, Hooman is a sound blocking TE, and the rookies provide lots of depth.

I'm a believer in DeGuglielmo as a replacement for Scarnecchia (who I believe should be elected to the football HOF as the best ever line coach for his body of work.) DeGuglielmo comes with 9 years as an NFL offensive line coach with teams that have had good to excellent offensive lines, and was handpicked by Belichick and Scarnecchia to come to New England. He is very different than other guys on the staff who rose through the ranks and had no previous experience at key coaching positions. I wish him all the success in the world.

Just like I never understood your animosity about DA, I can't disagree more with your assessment on Boyce. I've been to most of the open practices and if there has been one consistent event at every one its been Josh Boyce beating coverage deep. Even in the few games he played in last season, Boyce consistently beat coverages deep. He's continued to do it this TC and has improved his inside routes as well. I would agree that he's behind Edelman, DA, LaFell, and Thomkins on the imaginary depth chart, but at this point his chances of being on being on the final roster are good (at least to these eyes)

I do agree with your assessment of LaFell. With every practice he seems to be more comfortable, smother and quicker. As long as our expectations remain reasonable, I think LaFell can fill them. He's just another solid NFL receiver on a team loaded with them. No one elite, but solid depth from one to 6.

I remain in the "the jury's still out on Amendola" camp. I remember during last year's camp, he breaking ankles during the Tampa Bay practices and Buffalo game. After that though.......

OFFENSE
1) As of now, I still have 3 quarterbacks (giving us 24 on offense plus Tyms)
2) We could use a kick returner, but perhaps this isn't worth a roster spot for Boyce.
3) Wendell is still inexpensive insurance. I'm not sure that Belichick is ready to count on Stork if Connolly were to be injured.
4) I suspect that Bolden may not have a roster spot on the 53.

DEFENSE
4) I have Smith beating out Moore, who isn't ready for prime time. Worthy might be our backup DE in the base.
5) With regard to the DT's, the list is fine, IFF players are healthy. I suspect that Vellano will make the team.
6) We play 2.2 LB on average, and almost all of us have gone from rosters of 4 LB's to those of 6 LB's. I'm not sure why. I'm OK with 15 on the front 7 (and 6 LB's as long as all the backups are STer's. I suspect that 5 may be a better number, especially given the injury situation at DT.
7) Your safeties from earlier in the preseason are cut (Wilson and Swanson) and yet you still want us to keep 6 safeties, while most of us keep 4 or 5. Again, I'm not sure why.

BOTTOM LINE
Our differences, as always, are about veteran backups and developmental players. I lean toward guys like Smith and Wendell. You like players like Moore, and Thomas. You also take a risk at QB that I wouldn't take. So, for me Mallett and Smith instead of Thomas and Moore (plus understanding that Wendell and Vellano are likely to make the 53, but not if everyone is healthy and performing.

Brady6 said:

This is my roster based on what I saw yesterday.

QB (2) Brady, Garoppolo
RB (4) Ridley, Vereen, White, Bolden
WR (6) Edelman, Dobson, Amendola, LaFell, Thompkins, Tyms
TE (3) Gronkowski, Hoomanawanui, Develin
C (2) Connolly, Stork
G (4) Mankins, Cannon, Halapio, Kline
T (3) Solder, Vollmer, Fleming
DE (4) Jones, Ninkovich, Buchanan, Moore
DT (5) Wilfork, Kelly, Easley, Worthy, Siliga
ILB(2) Mayo, Beauharnais
OLB(4) Collins, Hightower, Anderson, Fleming
CB (6) Revis, Browner, Dennard, Ryan, Arrington, Butler
SS (4) Harmon, Wilson, Chung, Ebner
FS (2) McCourty, Thomas
ST (4) Gostkowski, Allen, Aiken, Slater

It is 55 players because Browner and Tyms do not count for the first 4 weeks. I have Chris Jones going on injured reserve designated to return. I went with just 4 DEs because I think they can use Easley and Worthy to go big and Hightower and Fleming to go small if need be. Mallett is either going to get traded or end up on injured reserve with the knee injury in my opinion.

Players to keep an eye on as dark horses in my opinion are:

Taylor McCullers - FB/LB
Jake Bequette - DE/LB
Jordan Devey - OL

If they can trust him with the football they may consider keeping Finch as a KR/PR but that seems like a long shot. I expect that James White will be the primary KR this season because Boyce is on the outside and I mean way outside right now.

Click to expand...