Tight end Shuffle: Hartsock, Maneri, Terrence Miller in; Jones, Watson, RB Houston out

Bruins29 said:

You can contradict me if you want but I did change my wording on Gronks performance. Regardless, of his difference making abilities I think we are ok at backup TE.

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The Patriots are clearly not ok at backup TE. More accurately, they're not ok at TE2. Ohoh is acceptable as a TE3.

Bruins29 said:

Could it be better? Sure...but again we have 3 weeks until opening day. Lots can happen. You could also look at Edelman's and Amendola's injury histories and do the same thing BTW.

I am not playing that game. You can if you want.

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Not looking at Edelman and Amendola for their injury history would be stupidity of the worst kind.

Deus Irae said:

The Patriots are clearly not ok at backup TE. More accurately, they're not ok at TE2. Ohoh is acceptable as a TE3.



Not looking at Edelman and Amendola for their injury history would be stupidity of the worst kind.

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That is my point. You can do it there too since between the two of them they have one healthy season between them in 7 years combined or something.

Again, I am not worried about the backup TE situation as its 3 weeks until opening day and lots of bodies are going to be moving around over the next 3 weeks. I am not happy they dont have have a Keller or Finley or whomever in there but obviously there is either no way to get those guys, not worth getting them, no better options now, or a better option is on the horizon. Or maybe BB wants to keep it this way to piss off some fans.

Also, I still believe that Gronk with Hoo and Mulligan would have been fine. They were still #3 with all the other problems without Gronk for half of the year.. Is it perfect? No, but I am assuming Gronk is going to be healthy just as I assume DA and JE will.

Would Gronk have been the difference in last years AFCCG? Not sure....With the injuries they had on D I think it would have not mattered. I am glad they are putting some money into the D. If that means they have to be a little thin at a couple BU positions, I am fine with it.

D wins championships.

Bruins29 said:

Also, I still believe that Gronk with Hoo and Mulligan would have been fine.

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That confuses having a great TE with having a good TE corps. They are not the same. This is a lesson that everyone who's ever seen BB's A Football Life was taught, if they didn't already know, when BB pointed out that if you shut down Moss and Welker, you shut down the Patriots.

Bruins29 said:

D wins championships.

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No, teams win championships.

Deus Irae said:

No, teams win championships.

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You know what I mean.

Florio (predictably) throws cold water on Gronk's odds of playing in week one. While I don't think it's a lock, I think it's probably much higher than 50/50.

Gronk far from a sure thing to play Week One | ProFootballTalk

I think we will sign Keller the same day that we get Tony Gonzalez to come out of retirment

meatface said:

I think we will sign Keller the same day that we get Tony Gonzalez to come out of retirment

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Schrodinger's cat...again??????????

Joker said:

Hartsock is a quintessential blocking TE and has made a career out of it. Maneri is an OL primarily but can also fill in as a blocking TE. Seems pretty obvious what BB is looking at here. Perhaps Hooman is a little more dinged up than anyone realizes.

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If nothing else, BB looked at his OL performance last week and his available TEs and decided that he wouldn't get in any decent live reps in the running game, if he didn't sign some capable blocking TEs for pre-season. Still, I expect that there will be a 3rd TE on the week 1 roster who is a better blocker than Hooman, even if he is not the Gronk backup that everyone wants.

AndyJohnson said:

Not to mention that Keller wouldn't even be seeing the field much because we are a 1 TE offense now.
If we had Keller and Hooman, Hooman would probably get more snaps because Keller is an atrocious blocker and the only time we will use 2 TEs is to block.

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While agree with your overall point, the 1 TE offense tautology is a bit much. The offense is what the players allow it to be. The Pats have lots of depth at WR this year and limited depth at TE, so the coaches have developed a 1 TE offense. Last year, we anticipated limited depth at WR and two All Pro TEs, so the Pats would have had a 2 TE offense, until they found that they didn't have enough capable TEs. If BB signed Findley tomorrow (not that I'm advocating that), the Pats would then have a 2 TE offense much of the time.

Joker said:

Schrodinger's cat...again??????????

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Technically it's not beating a dead horse if you don't know if it's actually dead or not.

pencilneckgeek said:

If nothing else, BB looked at his OL performance last week and his available TEs and decided that he wouldn't get in any decent live reps in the running game, if he didn't sign some capable blocking TEs for pre-season. Still, I expect that there will be a 3rd TE on the week 1 roster who is a better blocker than Hooman, even if he is not the Gronk backup that everyone wants.



While agree with your overall point, the 1 TE offense tautology is a bit much. The offense is what the players allow it to be. The Pats have lots of depth at WR this year and limited depth at TE, so the coaches have developed a 1 TE offense. Last year, we anticipated limited depth at WR and two All Pro TEs, so the Pats would have had a 2 TE offense, until they found that they didn't have enough capable TEs. If BB signed Findley tomorrow (not that I'm advocating that), the Pats would then have a 2 TE offense much of the time.

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I wasn't saying anything different than that. They are a 1 TE offense because of personnel and there was no personnel available that would have made a 2 TE offense a better route to go. Therefore the second TE is a much less valuable spot because rather than being a starter that role is a back who will not see the field much at all. The mediocre players that were trotted out in this thread as "starting quality backups" wouldn't have changed that.

I'm now resigned to the fact that there is NO available TE2 out there so we go with Maneri as a blocking TE/reserve OT and Develin as FB/TE3/4 potential receiver. These other TE bodies are just that. I'm less depressed than last year because I think Dobson returns and we'll have our 2-3 taller WRs for Red Zone targets.

PatsWickedPissah said:

I'm now resigned to the fact that there is NO available TE2 out there so we go with Maneri as a blocking TE/reserve OT and Develin as FB/TE3/4 potential receiver. These other TE bodies are just that. I'm less depressed than last year because I think Dobson returns and we'll have our 2-3 taller WRs for Red Zone targets.

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The new rules (a/k/a emphasis) should make things better with taller receivers, as breathing on them while trying to defend lob passes will now be a penalty.

Miller: Done already.

In order to make room for newly acquired defensive lineman Jerel Worthy on their roster, the Patriots have waived/injured tight end Terrence Miller, signed on Monday, according to a league source.

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Source: Pats waive injured TE Terrence Miller - espnBoston

Deus Irae said:

Miller: Done already.



Source: Pats waive injured TE Terrence Miller - espnBoston

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Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyedNESN 1m
The Patriots waived/injured Terrence Miller. If he goes unclaimed, he'll revert to injured reserve.

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Off to the trainer's waters of Lourdes.

Stephen Houston went to the Steelers. Didn't like the fact he was cut so quick, but oh well I suppose.

All the TE discussion, where's Lee Smith when you need him

Deus Irae said:

That confuses having a great TE with having a good TE corps. They are not the same. This is a lesson that everyone who's ever seen BB's A Football Life was taught, if they didn't already know, when BB pointed out that if you shut down Moss and Welker, you shut down the Patriots.

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Yes, the offense needs to have more than 2 options. The passing offense needs to have more than 2 options. Our 2nd TE is likely to be the last option of the eligible receivers, if he is even on the field. The 4th WR is likely to be more important as a receiver threat. So, I have the 2nd TE as the 8th receiving threat, after Gronk, 4 WR's and 2 RB's.

Would I like to have a #2 TE who is a solid receiver and a great blocker? Sure I would. We all would. I'm not sure why that is relevant. If there is an issue, it is whether to spend resources on a backup for Gronk, if that is even possible. If Gronk is healthy, we are fine with Gronk, Hooman and an offensive lineman or RB as a blocker when we need three "TE's".

If we don't spend the resources, Hooman and a JAG will be our TE's if Gronk is injured. That actually worked OK last year. Maybe we can reasonably expect more production from the WR and RB positions if Gronk is injured this year.

Bruins29 said:

You know what I mean.

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And I mean that your premise is wrong. It's not offense or defense that wins championships. It's the combination, along with getting hot/lucky at the right time.

The Ravens won their latest Super Bowl when their offense was higher rated than their defense, for example..

mgteich said:

If we don't spend the resources, Hooman and a JAG will be our TE's if Gronk is injured. That actually worked OK last year. Maybe we can reasonably expect more production from the WR and RB positions if Gronk is injured this year.

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No, it didn't. It didn't come close to working OK.

Deus Irae said:

No, it didn't. It didn't come close to working OK.

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OK, we didn't win the Super Bowl and the offense wasn't the #1 offense in the NFL, even with major injuries in key positions. We NEED to do much, much better. I understand the position that anything less than than the Super Bowl is a failure, and that we should be able to be the best in the league when our #2 player is injured. I just disagree.

I would expect a #2 TE to be the #7 or #8 receiver on the team. Do you disagree?

The team is likely to be a 3 WR team more often than a 2 TE team. Is that unacceptable to you?

We might run more 2 RB or 1 RB/1 FB sets. Is that unacceptable?

YES, I would feel more comfortable with a better backup for Gronk. However, a DT was probably a better choice. Would you have drafted a TE in the first round?