Tyms Suspended 4 games

Marinlik said:

In one way I see what he means. We can keep him after training camp and doesn't have to make the choice then. If a WR gets injured during those 4 weeks and is set to miss games after those weeks then Tyms chance of making the roster increases.

But on the other hand he will miss 4 weeks of practise. Time that someone else like Boyce can use to improve. Unless a WR gets injured for the season we will have to make the choice between Tyms and someone else. I don't think that it is the blessing some people claim it to be for Tyms because the choice will have to be made. But now that choice has to be made when the other receivers have gotten 4 more weeks to improve.

Sure Tyms can be in the meetings, lift weights and do all that stuff(according to ESPN), but he can't practise football with the team. But it does give him 4 extra weeks to learn the playbook and show that he is a pro in the meeting room. So it kind of goes both ways.

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With an Offseason under his belt 4 weeks should be nothing for Tyms, the guy who might suffer in all this if he cannot get out there in the next two weeks is Dobson. Right now I think Tyms is way ahead of him because he is actually getting reps and getting a feel for the game. There is some notion around here *hope I'm proven wrong* that Dobson is just going to step right in whenever he's cleared. I am one who beg to differ I just don't see him clicking with Brady after missing all the time he has. I think IF Dobson is not cleared by next week he's a definite PUP candidate at the begining of the season.

Rob0729 said:

I think Tyms is this year's Bam Childress. Everyone will fall in love with him because he looks like a stud against the scrubs in the preseason and will never see the field.

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What if he becomes the next Victor Cruz?

Hazy said:

What if he becomes the next Victor Cruz?

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The guy has been on four different teams in the last three years. I don't buy him being the next Victor Cruz. He could be a find like say Ninkovich was who bounced around or David Patten back in the day, but odds are against him. The guy has two receptions for 12 yards for his career.

Victor Cruz was an undrafted free agent signed by the Giants. He was not highly thought of because he went to UMass. Different situation.

Rob0729 said:

The guy has been on four different teams in the last three years. I don't buy him being the next Victor Cruz. He could be a find like say Ninkovich was who bounced around or David Patten back in the day, but odds are against him. The guy has two receptions for 12 yards for his career.

Victor Cruz was an undrafted free agent signed by the Giants. He was not highly thought of because he went to UMass. Different situation.

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Rob - While New England is Tyms 4th team, you are not really being fair to him. He was on San Fran's practice squad in 2012 until the Phins decided to sign him. While he was on the Phins 52, he wasn't activated for any games. In 2013, he signed with Cleveland and was on their practice squad before making their team.

Neither Miami in 2012 (Tannehill's rookie season) nor Cleveland (3 different QBs) in 2013 were great bastions of WR development. Not saying that he'll be Victor Cruz, but it's not like he has been cut a 1st tier cut at each of his stops either. This is a kid who hasn't found the right situation and he may have found that here in New England.

As a general rule of thumb, anytime someone claims that they're suspended for a positive adderall test I just assume that they're lying. As long as the NFL doesn't disclose what they tested positive for, the best possible PR spin will always be to claim that it was for the most innocuous drug possible... and that's adderall.

Any player who actually needs it should have no trouble properly getting prescribed and notifying the league. If there are any guys out there who screw that up and get suspended for it, I'd be willing to bet that they're outnumbered at least 10 to 1 by guys who get suspended for other substances and use that as their cover story.

Also, re: the Pats being Tyms' fourth team, they were Ninkovich's third (fourth if you count his two stints with the Saints separately). While I agree that it's prudent to assume that it was a flash in the pan against scrubs until/unless he proves he can do it against better competition, there is recent precedent for Belichick finding these types of diamonds in the rough. He's also the same age that Kenbrell was last year. No harm in holding out slim hope that there might be something real there.

I've heard enough. Lets string him up!

Rob0729 said:

The guy has been on four different teams in the last three years. I don't buy him being the next Victor Cruz. He could be a find like say Ninkovich was who bounced around or David Patten back in the day, but odds are against him. The guy has two receptions for 12 yards for his career.

Victor Cruz was an undrafted free agent signed by the Giants. He was not highly thought of because he went to UMass. Different situation.

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Rob, you being the #1 Patriot optimistic homer, I cannot believe you're so Meh! on Tyms. IF he outplays Lafell and Boyce when it's all said and done you have to wonder. There are guys in this league that do well who seem to come out of nowhere...here's hoping Tyms is one of them.

DaBruinz said:

Rob - While New England is Tyms 4th team, you are not really being fair to him. He was on San Fran's practice squad in 2012 until the Phins decided to sign him. While he was on the Phins 52, he wasn't activated for any games. In 2013, he signed with Cleveland and was on their practice squad before making their team.

Neither Miami in 2012 (Tannehill's rookie season) nor Cleveland (3 different QBs) in 2013 were great bastions of WR development. Not saying that he'll be Victor Cruz, but it's not like he has been cut a 1st tier cut at each of his stops either. This is a kid who hasn't found the right situation and he may have found that here in New England.

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That is why I am comparing him to Patten and Ninkovich more than Cruz. If he does become a legitimate NFL player, he was a journeyman who just never found the right system/opportunity like Patten and Nink. Not a player who no one gave a chance out of college because he went to a school that typically doesn't produce NFL players.

PatsFan2 said:

Rob you being the #1 Patriot oitimistic homer I cannot believe you're so Meh! on Tyms. IF he outplays Lafell and Boyce when its all said and done you have to wonder. They are guys in this league that do well who seem to come out of nowhere...here's hoping Tyms is one of them.

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I am far more of a realist than you and other gives me credit for.

He isn't outplaying LaFell by all reports. LaFell struggled the first week of camp, but excelled against the Redskins in joint sessions. LaFell is playing against the 1s in a lot drills. Tyms is playing against the 2s and 3s. LaFell is going to see a lot of time on the field especially in the red zone.

Boyce on the other hand needs to step up or he is going to be out of a job. That said, just because Tyms looks great vs. guys who won't be in the NFL in three weeks doesn't mean he is good enough to make the roster. He may be. I haven't been to practices and seen what the coaches seen.

I have just seen far too many preseason studs who look like Calvin Johnson or Adrian Peterson against the 2s and 3s never make it much farther than this team's practice squad during the regular season. One preseason game against the back ups of a team that had a mediocre defense last year isn't going to win me over on the Tyms bandwagon. He was very good on Thursday night, but he needs to show more.

I'm not sure where all of the Boyce is in trouble stuff is coming from, by all accounts he got off to a strong start and had a good offseason, in general people are being way too reactive, and that includes me because i started the Gropp thread because of my reaction to his first outing. We are always surprised and wrong about the final 53 and this season will be no different.

Ivan said:

I'm not sure where all of the Boyce is in trouble stuff is coming from, by all accounts he got off to a strong start and had a good offseason, in general people are being way too reactive, and that includes me because i started the Gropp thread because of my reaction to his first outing. We are always surprised and wrong about the final 53 and this season will be no different.

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I expect Boyce to make the 53 man roster, but I think he is on the roster bubble. His special teams contribution may be enough to make him get on the roster though.

Rob0729 said:

I expect Boyce to make the 53 man roster, but I think he is on the roster bubble. His special teams contribution may be enough to make him get on the roster though.

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I wasn't so much singling you out Rob as i generally think you are one of the more reasonable people here, I just have been hearing a lot more Boyce won't make the roster talk and it is in striking contrast to the earlier camp reports which had him excelling. Ultimately it is all guess work as none of us really has any idea how Belichick reaches the decisions on his back of the roster guys other than that ST's play a big role. even in the seasons where we thought the end of the roster guys were obvious the final roster always varies significantly from what we believe it will be. Dobson has now practiced and is ineligible for PUP so i have it Edelman, Amendola, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins, and Lafell with Slater as the ST player on the "WR" unit. The rest are battling for PS and with Tyms going on suspension they will likely release and re-sign if the other PS guys don't work out.

DaBruinz said:

Rob - While New England is Tyms 4th team, you are not really being fair to him. He was on San Fran's practice squad in 2012 until the Phins decided to sign him. While he was on the Phins 52, he wasn't activated for any games. In 2013, he signed with Cleveland and was on their practice squad before making their team.

Neither Miami in 2012 (Tannehill's rookie season) nor Cleveland (3 different QBs) in 2013 were great bastions of WR development. Not saying that he'll be Victor Cruz, but it's not like he has been cut a 1st tier cut at each of his stops either. This is a kid who hasn't found the right situation and he may have found that here in New England.

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Not being good enough to get on the field for bad teams is not a calling card to be proud of or a harbinger of great things to come.

PatsFan2 said:

Rob, you being the #1 Patriot optimistic homer, I cannot believe you're so Meh! on Tyms. IF he outplays Lafell and Boyce when it's all said and done you have to wonder. There are guys in this league that do well who seem to come out of nowhere...here's hoping Tyms is one of them.

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We all 'hope' but the reality is that one preseason game against guys who wont be in the league doesn't trump 2 years of struggling to be good enough to make it on the field.

Since Tyms is being compared to previous long-shots, here's how he stacks up so far stat-wise in the preseason:


Also note that not one of these players had a Week 1 anything like Tyms'. With the exception of Thompkins' 8 rec. Week 3 last year, most of the above came in the Week 4 scrub bowl.

His production in other words is not similar to previous camp binkies. He's ahead of them.

Dominating amongst the 2nd and 3rd team is a good start. Dominating against the 1st squad/string players is a little bit different. Same goes for Jim G. Until I see them with the 1s I'd temper my expectations. And even then it's hard to tell what you got because some of the defenses that are run in preseason are more of just a lets see if this works type of night.

He has definitely shown flashes. It will be interesting how the rest of preseason pans out. Especially if Dobson returns any time soon.

unoriginal said:

Since Tyms is being compared to previous long-shots, here's how he stacks up so far stat-wise in the preseason:

Code:

Player        Season    Games    Rec    Yards    TDs
Tyms        2014    1    5    119    1
Thompkins    2013    4    15    166    0
Sims        2013    4    4    86    2
Jenkins        2010    4    6    145    1
Nunn        2009    4    8    133    0
CJ Jones    2008    4    9    134    1
Bam        2007    4    7    82    1
Bam        2006    4    11    214    0

Also note that not one of these players had a Week 1 anything like Tyms'. With the exception of Thompkins' 8 rec. Week 3 last year, most of the above came in the Week 4 scrub bowl.

His production in other words is not similar to previous camp binkies. He's ahead of them.

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In other words, most seasons most teams have guys who are excellent players against a level of competition that is below what they would face in the NFL, and end up not being good enough to produce against starting NFL caliber players.

The Ol adderal excuse is getting old. If it was a legit prescription why WOULDNT you advise the league of it before hand? I'll tell you why, it's because players use it as a masking agent for STEROIDS.

Don't get me wrong. I don't give two squirrel turds if a player juices up or not. What annoys me is that so many people by into these lame excuses. Can you imagine the excuses this board would be churning out if Gronk gets popped? Lol

That said I'm rooting for the kid. Hope he's more Victor Cruz than Bam Childress.

I think this suspension is a bunch of crap, yes he tested positive but really beat up your wife and get 2 games. But you fail one drug test and get 4 games. I do think he should be suspended he did fail the test but really I'm gonna say beating up your wife is a lot worse then failing on drug test. The NFL need to learn how to hand out suspensions this is getting ridiculous.

pats4life12 said:

I think this suspension is a bunch of crap, yes he tested positive but really beat up your wife and get 2 games. But you fail one drug test and get 4 games. I do think he should be suspended he did fail the test but really I'm gonna say beating up your wife is a lot worse then failing on drug test. The NFL need to learn how to hand out suspensions this is getting ridiculous.

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From a standpoint of the severity of the crime, I agree, but that's a naive view. The substance abuse policy is intended as a deterrent. If you leave room to debate a failed PED test, you leave room to cheat. If you test for illegal drugs, you must have a severe penalty because your intent is to keep players from taking illegal drugs.

While smoking weed or taking adderal is not as bad an offense as beating up your wife, I find it hard to consider potential suspensions as a deterrent to beating up a woman. (Like saying they better suspend Hernandez for a long time so players will think twice about committing execution style murders).

All that said the Rice suspension was a joke, especially in light of Roethlisberger but comparing Rice to a substance abuse suspension is apples to oranges because of the deterrent nature of substance abuse suspensions.