THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread

Snake Eyes · Aug 2, 2014

BelichickFan said:
Yes you can. Accuracy is largely mechanics. Bad mechanics = bad accuracy.

I haven't seen any practices, I read one time it looked like he was throwing from a higher arm slot than in college, I don't know if it's true. But if it is he's working on a new arm slot and also working on his foot mechanics (read that he's been doing that with Josh to the side).

If he is indeed changing where his arm and feet are one should expect shoddy accuracy for a while, everything you change is a moving part and it's going to take time to integrate those changes into the body. IMO the most important thing is that he have the faith in those changes to stick with them rather than revert back to his previous motion because he's frustrated with the immediate results.

Mack Herron · Aug 2, 2014

Mike Reiss ‏@MikeReiss 11m
Patriots announce the release of rookie WR Cole Stanford, who was longshot for roster spot. Roster now at 89 players.

Spot #90 is open again.

Bourne Again Christian · Aug 2, 2014

Here comes our new Brady?

Sfpat · Aug 2, 2014

Is his lack of accuracy because he's throwing to the wrong spot or because his receivers are running to the wrong spot?

But I agree, it's a concern that he has yet to be named first team all pro. Clearly high bust potential

RayClay · Aug 2, 2014

I'm old enough to remember when the rule of thumb was five years to develop a starting quarterback. You would think, looking at all the 1st round draft choices who have crashed and burned over the last decade or so, that people would look to coaches like Belichick who have developed 7th round picks and UDFAs through patient and consistent coaching, while other teams threw first rounders to the wolves and wrecked them.

I don't think I have to mention all the 1st rounders wrecked by the instant hero mentality.

Garoppolo is a division 2 QB. They want him to hold a clipboard for a year and learn from Brady and Mallet. If they like him, I wouldn't be surprised if they pick up a vet next year to replace Mallet, so the kid can learn without pressure.

Is it just me, or should this stuff really be obvious in a way?

Deus Irae · Aug 2, 2014

RayClay said:
I'm old enough to remember when the rule of thumb was five years to develop a starting quarterback. You would think, looking at all the 1st round draft choices who have crashed and burned over the last decade or so, that people would look to coaches like Belichick who have developed 7th round picks and UDFAs through patient and consistent coaching, while other teams threw first rounders to the wolves and wrecked them.

I don't think I have to mention all the 1st rounders wrecked by the instant hero mentality.

Garoppolo is a division 2 QB. They want him to hold a clipboard for a year and learn from Brady and Mallet. If they like him, I wouldn't be surprised if they pick up a vet next year to replace Mallet, so the kid can learn without pressure.

Is it just me, or should this stuff really be obvious in a way?

Take a look around the league. You'll find that it's pretty much just you.

Joker · Aug 2, 2014

we had nuns to cure our ADHD when we were young, RC...no more nuns = extinction of the obvious

RayClay · Aug 2, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Take a look around the league. You'll find that it's pretty much just you.

I don't think so. A high first round pick should be a sure thing, when it's a quarterback it should be like caring for your own child as far as avoiding risk.

Andrew Luck is a good looking quarterback and there are some others, but the rate that teams have burned high picks on QBs is horrendous. And by burned, I mean not nurtured. There's a hell of a lot more to learn at QB than there used to be, when QBs mostly served some apprenticeship period.

AzPatsFan · Aug 2, 2014

RayClay said:
I'm old enough to remember when the rule of thumb was five years to develop a starting quarterback. You would think, looking at all the 1st round draft choices who have crashed and burned over the last decade or so, that people would look to coaches like Belichick who have developed 7th round picks and UDFAs through patient and consistent coaching, while other teams threw first rounders to the wolves and wrecked them.

I don't think I have to mention all the 1st rounders wrecked by the instant hero mentality.

Garoppolo is a division 2 QB. They want him to hold a clipboard for a year and learn from Brady and Mallet. If they like him, I wouldn't be surprised if they pick up a vet next year to replace Mallet, so the kid can learn without pressure.

Is it just me, or should this stuff really be obvious in a way?

I think you can do it sooner, if the QB candidate is a product of a big time college program, and stayed in college learning his craft for 4 years. But no one has patience these days,

Hell, we have the obvious case of the Mental Midget. He never even ran a lemonade stand before selecting him to control of the largest organization in America. Is it any wonder he is doing so poorly.

Deus Irae · Aug 2, 2014

RayClay said:
I don't think so. A high first round pick should be a sure thing, when it's a quarterback it should be like caring for your own child as far as avoiding risk.

Andrew Luck is a good looking quarterback and there are some others, but the rate that teams have burned high picks on QBs is horrendous. And by burned, I mean not nurtured. There's a hell of a lot more to learn at QB than there used to be, when QBs mostly served some apprenticeship period.

No offense, but you can "Don't think so" all you want and it's not going to change what's happened in the league. It's a fact of life in todays NFL. As I said, take a look around the league. Today's QBs are generally coming in more prepared than at any time in the past. It's pretty easy to see who's got it faster, as a result. Here are your long-term (a/k/a 5 years) development QBs in positions to be starters, or to at least 'legitimately' compete for the starting position:

Hoyer
Cassel
Fitzpatrick
Schaub

That's it.

RayClay · Aug 2, 2014

Deus Irae said:
"Don't think so" all you want. It's a fact of life in todays NFL. As I said, take a look around the league. Today's QBs are generally coming in more prepared than at any time in the past. It's pretty easy to see who's got it faster, as a result. Here are your long-term (a/k/a 5 years) development QBs in positions to be starters, or to at least 'legitimately' compete for the starting position:

Hoyer
Cassel

That's it.

Aaron Rodgers has done pretty well. Just because more teams are rolling the dice and we have a lot of 1-2 year QBs who got thrown in, only means teams are going with QBs with no experience. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. David Carr started five years for Houston, which is a lot longer than many of the QBs your talking about. Did that make him a top QB?

It's a high stakes gamble. The Brady's, Aaron Rodgers and Carson Palmer's (to a lesser extent) are offset by the Manning's, Rothburgers and Luck's, but the discard pile is bigger than both those, and at least some could have been decent starters, given the chance to learn without the ultimate pressure.

Deus Irae · Aug 2, 2014

RayClay said:
Aaron Rodgers has done pretty well. Just because more teams are rolling the dice and we have a lot of 1-2 year QBs who got thrown in, only means teams are going with QBs with no experience. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. David Carr started five years for Houston, which is a lot longer than many of the QBs your talking about. Did that make him a top QB?

It's a high stakes gamble. The Brady's, Aaron Rodgers and Carson Palmer's (to a lesser extent) are offset by the Manning's, Rothburgers and Luck's, but the discard pile is bigger than both those, and at least some could have been decent starters, given the chance to learn without the ultimate pressure.

Rodgers was a 1st round pick, and he only sat because Favre was in front of him. Palmer sat for 1 year, which is nowhere near a 5 year development. Brady also only sat for one year. In short, none of your examples really work.

RayClay · Aug 2, 2014

Deus Irae said:
No offense, but you can "Don't think so" all you want and it's not going to change what's happened in the league. It's a fact of life in todays NFL. As I said, take a look around the league. Today's QBs are generally coming in more prepared than at any time in the past. It's pretty easy to see who's got it faster, as a result. Here are your long-term (a/k/a 5 years) development QBs in positions to be starters, or to at least 'legitimately' compete for the starting position:

Hoyer
Cassel
Fitzpatrick
Schaub

That's it.

You're saying because nobody develops quarterbacks, there are no developmental quarterbacks. That's a tautology.

Deus Irae · Aug 2, 2014

RayClay said:
You're saying because nobody develops quarterbacks, there are no developmental quarterbacks. That's a tautology.

That's not what I'm saying, at all. Why are you going to quote a post if you aren't going to bother to actually read it?

Today's QBs are generally coming in more prepared than at any time in the past. It's pretty easy to see who's got it faster, as a result.

is a far cry from "Nobody's developing QBs". The time table on QBs has sped up because they're coming into the league more advanced, in terms of preparation, than they ever have. That's just a fact of the current state of the game.

AzPatsFan · Aug 2, 2014

Deus Irae said:
"Don't think so" all you want. It's a fact of life in todays NFL. As I said, take a look around the league. Today's QBs are generally coming in more prepared than at any time in the past. It's pretty easy to see who's got it faster, as a result. Here are your long-term (a/k/a 5 years) development QBs in positions to be starters, or to at least 'legitimately' compete for the starting position:

Hoyer
Cassel
Fitzpatrick

That's it.

You forgot to include Aaron Rodgers and Kurt Warner

RayClay · Aug 2, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Rodgers was a 1st round pick, and he only sat because Favre was in front of him. Palmer sat for 1 year, which is nowhere near a 5 year development. Brady also only sat for one year. In short, none of your examples really work.

As in, my entire argument.

You would think, looking at all the 1st round draft choices who have crashed and burned

Look, if you're not even going to read what you're responding to, why bother?

The five year was an axiom, and idealist notion to make a point, it included playing behind someone for a while, then progressing from a good to great starter. It was never adhered to .

Deus Irae · Aug 2, 2014

RayClay said:
As in, my entire argument.

Look, if you're not even going to read what you're responding to, why bother?

The five year was an axiom, and idealist notion to make a point, it included playing behind someone for a while, then progressing from a good to great starter. It was never adhered to .

So your whole point was pointless, and you're blaming me for not reading when I actually read your point and responded specifically to it?

Interesting way of posting nothingness you have there.

Deus Irae · Aug 2, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
You forgot to include Aaron Rodgers and Kurt Warner

I didn't forget Rodgers, at all, and Warner's out of the league.

RayClay · Aug 2, 2014

Deus Irae said:
That's not what I'm saying, at all. Why are you going to quote a post if you aren't going to bother to actually read it?

is a far cry from "Nobody's developing QBs". The time table on QBs has sped up because they're coming into the league more advanced, in terms of preparation, than they ever have. That's just a fact of the current state of the game.

You mentioned four QBs for some reason. I'm not really sure why, since my argument was about burning 1st round QBs.

Secondary point was, that given time, even seemingly mediocre QBs stayed in the league while #1 picks flamed out in a matter of years. You seem to be saying hardly anyone develops QBs because hardly anyone develops QBs. Don't know what your point was, other than that. So many drafted and thrown in, some are successful, at least so far.

RayClay · Aug 2, 2014

Deus Irae said:
So your whole point was pointless, and you're blaming me for not reading when I actually read your point and responded specifically to it?

Interesting way of posting nothingness you have there.

You remarked that it was significant that Aaron Rodgers was a 1st round pick responding to my argument that many 1st round picks flamed out because they were thrown right in.

But Rodgers was hardly thrown right in and was a 1st round pick. So, you gave back an example of the positive side of my argument, for some odd reason.

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