7/27 - practus interuptus

Snake Eyes said:

You're calling it BS with nothing to back it up. Also, you do know most medicines come from some type of plant or herb, so why is it radical quackery to give someone herbs instead of pharmaceuticals?

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"Pharmaceuticals" cannot be prescribed without FDA approval that comes after a long and arduous clinical trial process proving safety and efficacy. The process includes isolation, purification and concentration of active compounds into a deliverable format which ensures proper dosing. Eating "herbs" does none of this. Saying something like "most medicines come from plants, therefore just eat the plants to get the effect" is like saying "steel comes from ore in the ground, therefore just use the ore to build skyscrapers, don't bother refining it."

Also note that traditional Chinese medicine is widely known as one of the primary culprits driving the de-population of species like tigers and elephants (among many others, I'm sure) by providing markets for poachers.

If you want to lose weight, eat well and exercise. Some of you may be the special unique snowflake this does not apply to, but don't count on it.

If it's not working, chances are you not eating well enough or haven't waited long enough. I guarantee anyone here who can't lose weight would lose weight fast if they adhered to a strict vegetarian diet for a few months. Do you need to go full vegetarian to lose weight? No, but it's a good place to start before adding back lean healthy meats and will substantially expand your pallet.

DocHoliday said:

I'm a medical student. There is never a reason a 'blocked spleen' will cause anything like his symptoms. A 'blocked spleen' (doesn't exist, but let's say the Eastern docs English was bad and he meant enlarged spleen) indicates an infection and at worse a page maybe to the Heme/Onc doc.

If a real medicine was derived from the herb it was because the actual herb was too weak to make a difference without concentration. If the actual herb worked fine and was actually cheaper we would use that. The insurance company certainly would love to save the cash.

There is only one known natural statin (cholesterol lowering medication) but it's pretty distinctive and he did not mention it. It's certainly not found in bark though.

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Just to add, if there was such thing as a 'blocked spleen' then that could be a vascular problem leading to necrosis or death of the spleen, which would need to be removed

KontradictioN said:

Why is this a weight loss thread? If you want to lose weight, cardio your ass off at the gym (the big 3: treadmill for at least 2 miles, bike at least 15 minutes, elliptical at least 15 minutes) and eat a lot of salad every single day without things like bacon bits, cheese, and ranch dressing. Do that and your ass will drop weight before you know it.

EDIT: Playing sports helps the most. Start playing pick up games of basketball after work and you'll see more immediate results.

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I don't know why.

I find that short HIIT is much more effective for weight loss than jogging and biking. I seem to get more out of 10-16 minutes of hell than an hour of jogging.

Plus I see a lot of fat joggers in my town.

JR4 said:

It's really not that complicated. Remove the shovel aimed at your face.

Your response indicates you are a believer of the misleading media promoted concept that
to lose weight balance the equation "calories in = calories out"

The metabolic process involves many many stimulated and feed back hormone production.
A disruption inany part of this process can cause weight gain.
Such as the case of a marathon runner who had a very healthy diet and course had plenty of exercise
but still gained weight. It is a complicated process.

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Complicated, no doubt. But there are still some simple facts. The general population in the U.S. and the U.K. have a very similar genetic make-up to what was there a generation or two back. Yet obesity has rocketed. It's hard to believe that the fact that people are filling their faces with rubbish isn't the major factor.

DocHoliday said:

If you want to lose weight, eat well and exercise. Some of you may be the special unique snowflake this does not apply to, but don't count on it.

If it's not working, chances are you not eating well enough or haven't waited long enough. I guarantee anyone here who can't lose weight would lose weight fast if they adhered to a strict vegetarian diet for a few months. Do you need to go full vegetarian to lose weight? No, but it's a good place to start before adding back lean healthy meats and will substantially expand your pallet.

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Vegetarian diets high in bread/carb/starches will make you gain weight almost every time. Lots of people go down the wrong road with those kids of diets. Of course if by "full vegetarian" you meant almost only vegetables, then I agree with you.

Patjew said:

Vegetarian diets high in bread/carb/starches will make you gain weight almost every time. Lots of people go down the wrong road with those kids of diets. Of course if by "full vegetarian" you meant almost only vegetables, then I agree with you.

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Bagels, doughnuts, pizza, quesedillas and egg sandwiches can be staples of a vegetarian diet, and won't get you any weight loss.

Patjew said:

Vegetarian diets high in bread/carb/starches will make you gain weight almost every time. Lots of people go down the wrong road with those kids of diets. Of course if by "full vegetarian" you meant almost only vegetables, then I agree with you.

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Yeah that's where I was going. A diet I actually agree with (and practice myself) is a loose interpretation of the 'caveman diet'. It's not actually superior because it's what cavemen actually ate, it's just a good diet because it emphasizes non-processed food and encourages you to think about what your putting into your mouth.

Minimize the amount of steps that go between the food's origin and packaging!

Patjew said:

I don't know why.

I find that short HIIT is much more effective for weight loss than jogging and biking. I seem to get more out of 10-16 minutes of hell than an hour of jogging.

Plus I see a lot of fat joggers in my town.

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I personally hate jogging and running on a treadmill and will make every effort to get away from it if I can. After work most days, I'll go and play a couple of hours of basketball and that will be my cardio. I lift in the mornings before work. But if it's raining out or we can't get numbers on the court, I'll run and bike at the gym. I've found that if I ever wanted to drop a quick 5-10 pounds, sticking with my normal routine and simply switching my meals over the nothing but salad and veggies is the way to go. So long as I don't begin eating like a pig after ward and stuffing my face with burgers and pizza, it's typically easy to keep it off. If I quit drinking alcohol, I could probably be an Abercrombie model.

AndyJohnson said:

Your response indicates you are a believer of the misleading media promoted concept that
to lose weight balance the equation "calories in = calories out"

The metabolic process involves many many stimulated and feed back hormone production.
A disruption inany part of this process can cause weight gain.
Such as the case of a marathon runner who had a very healthy diet and course had plenty of exercise
but still gained weight. It is a complicated process.

Click to expand...

It is still calories in/calories out. The point you are making though is that people have different levels of metabolism so calories out vary from person to person, and you and I could eat the same diet and do the same exercise and have different weight results.
But aren't we really just talking about people who are overweight dropping some pounds?
There is no arguing that eating healthier and eating the right foods is clearly the way to do it.
My doctor tells patients to ignore the impact of exercise on losing weight because he has seen too many people eat poorly under the excuse that they work it off at the gym.[/QUOTE]

" calories in/calories out" is misleading because it makes A LOT of assumptions. If you have
a healthy body and no metabolic path way issues then yes it is a good approach to losing weight.
In 2010 CDC indicated 70% of Adults in US are over weight or obese. New science indicates this is
a symptom of an underlying medical issue, metabolic issues. More alarming is by 2020 indications are
that 60% of US adults will have either a pre-diabetes or diabetes condition.

People are so programmed to believe "calories in/calories out" concept that they see a fat person
and often automatically believe the person has no will power and is just a glutton when they have a
medical condition and should be seen as a person suffering with a disease.

I'm not saying all this because I am obese.
( I do BB 6 nights a week and also run 2-440s most nights and am not a young man at all).
It's just that I know people who suffer with this affliction and there may be some people
here feeling really guilty about their weight condition and they should know there most likely
is a medical reason and there is hope.

KontradictioN said:

If I quit drinking alcohol, I could probably be an Abercrombie model.

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Haha, same here. Especially if I wasn't so ugly.

DocHoliday said:

I'm a medical student. There is never a reason a 'blocked spleen' will cause anything like his symptoms. A 'blocked spleen' (doesn't exist, but let's say the Eastern docs English was bad and he meant enlarged spleen) indicates an infection and at worse a page maybe to the Heme/Onc doc.

If a real medicine was derived from the herb it was because the actual herb was too weak to make a difference without concentration. If the actual herb worked fine and was actually cheaper we would use that. The insurance company certainly would love to save the cash.

There is only one known natural statin (cholesterol lowering medication) but it's pretty distinctive and he did not mention it. It's certainly not found in bark though.

Click to expand...

So-called "modern", or "western" medicine has been discovering that some of what it used to laugh off is, in fact right, and that some of what it "knows", it doesn't. This isn't new, and it's not likely to stop happening any time soon. The arrogance of the American medical profession is often badly misplaced.

If you want to learn about some quackery from western medicine, just ask all those Americans who had ulcers back when western science was completely dropping the ball on them.

Hell, have some real fun. Look at the history of idiocy regarding dietary recommendations. They're still screwing that up to this day.

Mike the Brit said:

Complicated, no doubt. But there are still some simple facts. The general population in the U.S. and the U.K. have a very similar genetic make-up to what was there a generation or two back. Yet obesity has rocketed. It's hard to believe that the fact that people are filling their faces with rubbish isn't the major factor.

Click to expand...

The fact there are now a lot of foods with a high glycemic index available is certainly not helping. Also the
more sedentary life style many live is a factor different from years ago.
Generations ago this medical condition did exist. Today it is just exacerbated buy factors mentioned above. Hundreds of years ago people suffered from over weight issues.

JR4 said:

It is still calories in/calories out. The point you are making though is that people have different levels of metabolism so calories out vary from person to person, and you and I could eat the same diet and do the same exercise and have different weight results.
But aren't we really just talking about people who are overweight dropping some pounds?
There is no arguing that eating healthier and eating the right foods is clearly the way to do it.
My doctor tells patients to ignore the impact of exercise on losing weight because he has seen too many people eat poorly under the excuse that they work it off at the gym.

" calories in/calories out" is misleading because it makes A LOT of assumptions. If you have
a healthy body and no metabolic path way issues then yes it is a good approach to losing weight.
In 2010 CDC indicated 70% of Adults in US are over weight or obese. New science indicates this is
a symptom of an underlying medical issue, metabolic issues. More alarming is by 2020 indications are
that 60% of US adults will have either a pre-diabetes or diabetes condition.

People are so programmed to believe "calories in/calories out" concept that they see a fat person
and often automatically believe the person has no will power and is just a glutton when they have a
medical condition and should be seen as a person suffering with a disease.

I'm not saying all this because I am obese.
( I do BB 6 nights a week and also run 2-440s most nights and am not a young man at all).
It's just that I know people who suffer with this affliction and there may be some people
here feeling really guilty about their weight condition and they should know there most likely
is a medical reason and there is hope.

Click to expand...

Understood, but that is the exception. Fat people are mostly fat because of diet and exercise.
When you cite the percentages of Americans that are overweight, it doesn't mean its destiny, and all you have to look at is how crowded McDonalds, the local ice cream stand, and the high calories aisles of the grocery store are.

Hmmm, anyone hungry?

My input ........ eat to stabilize your blood sugar levels and you’ll never have a weight issue.

When you over-indulge in a meal you’ll see your blood sugar spike (above 120 mg/dl) and your body will store fat. Avoid this.

When you refrain from eating for an extended period of time you’ll see your blood sugar drop (below 80 mg/dl) and your body will burn lean muscle (for fuel in place of fat) and slow down your metabolism. Avoid this.

You want your body in a state of balance (homeostasis) which will allow it to ignite its metabolism so that stored body fat is released and lean muscle is conserved.

The best way I know to do this is to adopt a meal pattern that has you eating small portion sized meals, of the right combo of proteins/fats/carbs, every 4 hours (during awake time). Do this and you’ll stabilize (between 80 and 120 mg/dl throughout the day) your blood glucose/sugar levels and you’ll reach such a balance.

ForThoseAboutToRock said:

"Pharmaceuticals" cannot be prescribed without FDA approval that comes after a long and arduous clinical trial process proving safety and efficacy. The process includes isolation, purification and concentration of active compounds into a deliverable format which ensures proper dosing. Eating "herbs" does none of this. Saying something like "most medicines come from plants, therefore just eat the plants to get the effect" is like saying "steel comes from ore in the ground, therefore just use the ore to build skyscrapers, don't bother refining it."

Click to expand...

Exactly what do you know about the refinement and concentration of the herb he was given, or what Chinese practitioners give people? My guess is 'not a damned thing'.

DocHoliday said:

I'm a medical student. There is never a reason a 'blocked spleen' will cause anything like his symptoms. A 'blocked spleen' (doesn't exist, but let's say the Eastern docs English was bad and he meant enlarged spleen) indicates an infection and at worse a page maybe to the Heme/Onc doc.

If a real medicine was derived from the herb it was because the actual herb was too weak to make a difference without concentration. If the actual herb worked fine and was actually cheaper we would use that. The insurance company certainly would love to save the cash.

There is only one known natural statin (cholesterol lowering medication) but it's pretty distinctive and he did not mention it. It's certainly not found in bark though.

Click to expand...

He might have meant "weak" spleen, and there are plenty of herbs and foods which can help with that.

Also, how can pharmaceutical companies make money on a naturally occurring plant?

I have no idea how this thread got to being about weight loss. But I might as well throw in my opinion here. In my opinion portion control is the most important thing coupled with eating good stuff. I'm not talking about only eating salads and ultra healthy stuff. Just keep away from eating fast food every week. I eat pasta almost every day with various sauces. But I only eat 350 grams.

The second thing is working out. I started going to the gym 4-5 times a week. But I lost weight even if I wasn't working out.

By doing this I have lost 58lbs. I have followed no funky diet methods where you only eat soup or stuff like that. I've only started working out more, but most importantly I started controling my portions to 350g.

Joker spends so much time venting his spleen about the jets and Commissioner Blockhead that I was having a hard time understanding how it might have gotten blocked in the first place.

AndyJohnson said:

Understood, but that is the exception. Fat people are mostly fat because of diet and exercise.
When you cite the percentages of Americans that are overweight, it doesn't mean its destiny, and all you have to look at is how crowded McDonalds, the local ice cream stand, and the high calories aisles of the grocery store are.

Click to expand...

Wrong! You think most people want to be fat? Do you realize there are many many people that would
love to exercise but they have no energy! Yet they eat and eat all those high calories foods trying to
get energy. Some feel good for a little while and others still feel hungry after a big mac with fries and high sugar drink. They feel starved because they have a metabolic pathway disruption.

One such disruption could be body cells falsely indicating they do not need more energy when they do so the over insulin production causes that energy to be stored as white fat. You should read the two books I mentioned above.