THE OFFICIAL 2014 New England Patriots training camp thread

Ring 6 · Jul 24, 2014

Brady6 said:
I think in this scheme it would be –

E – Ninkovich
T – Easley
N – Wilfork
E – Jones
S – Hightower
B – Mayo
W – Collins
C – Revis
C – Browner/Dennard
$ - Harmon/Wilson
S – McCourty

This would put Hightower in a downhill position to either stuff the run or blitz, the $ safety would take the TE 1on1, and McCourty would play centerfield.

Or we play zone, which we do an awful lot of in the base.

supafly · Jul 24, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
Well, that is what we have done for years.
The news is that in the base, we are playing Mayo in the middle, which is his best spot, Hightower at SAM, also his best spot, and Collins at WILL where he can use his speed and athleticism.
I kind of thought this alignment was a no-brainer, but good to see confirmation.
As far as who comes off the most in nickle and dime, that is to be seen. It could well be Collins and Hightower sharing the 2nd LB next to Mayo.

Yep, you called this alignment way back in the off season when many had Hightower at MLB.

Brady6 · Jul 24, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
Or we play zone, which we do an awful lot of in the base.

I think you make a great point, alignment does not always dictate coverage. Good call on the LBs - you were ahead of the game with the alignment; you have been suggesting this alignment for months.

On a side note, I have never been this excited about a Patriots defense.

supafly · Jul 24, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
Before we read settled science into these position lineups, BB has said that camp is where he gives players reps at different positions so that game context match ups in season and injuries requiring playing out of position as a fill in are not devastating. If player plays position P most of camp, THEN we can make conclusions.

Very good point, PWP, and likely why we're seeing a guy like Cannon receive looks at both LT and RG as well as his usual RT.

That said, I have a strong feeling that Mayo will be the MLB. He has more experience there, and better instincts.

Brady6 · Jul 24, 2014

supafly said:
Yep, you called this alignment way back in the off season when many had Hightower at MLB.

I just posted the same thing almost simultaneously…

Brady6 · Jul 24, 2014

supafly said:
Very good point, PWP, and likely why we're seeing a guy like Cannon receive looks at both LT and RG as well as his usual RT./QUOTE]

I think there is a specific reason for Cannon at LT, my thinking is the Patriots are going to use a lot of unbalanced lines designed for power running on the right side of the line with Solder lining up as a TE next to Vollmer. I also think given Solder suffered multiple concussions last season and Vollmer missed half the season it is important that we have depth at OT.

supafly · Jul 24, 2014

Brady6 said:
I just posted the same thing almost simultaneously…

I just pointed it out because AJ was pretty adamant about it, and his comments made a lot of sense.

I think Mayo is the better choice for MLB + Hightower on the strong side, although so many were bringing up the possibility of Collins playing there (SAM), that it was making me doubt how to feel. I really wasn't sure to be honest with you, but I do think that today's alignment makes best use of everyone's talents.

Ring 6 · Jul 24, 2014

supafly said:
Yep, you called this alignment way back in the off season when many had Hightower at MLB.

It is also going to be interesting to see the sub pacakge DL, and how the rotations go.
For example, I would like to see Ninkovich on the field less. I see two ways of doing this. One is to use Smith more in the base, where he would be a stronger run defender, and another would be to use someone else in sub, whether that is Buchanan, or a LB.
Cannon at RG today is also interesting.
And of course, how the safety spot and rotation pans out will be interesting to watch too.

Ring 6 · Jul 24, 2014

Brady6 said:
I think you make a great point, alignment does not always dictate coverage. Good call on the LBs - you were ahead of the game with the alignment; you have been suggesting this alignment for months.

On a side note, I have never been this excited about a Patriots defense.

Never? 2001 post season? 2003? 2004 before the secondary injuries?
Hell last year when everyone was healthy was pretty exciting even though we clearly have upgraded the talent now.

Deus Irae · Jul 24, 2014

supafly said:
I just pointed it out because AJ was pretty adamant about it, and his comments made a lot of sense.

I think Mayo is the better choice for MLB + Hightower on the strong side, although so many were bringing up the possibility of Collins playing there (SAM), that it was making me doubt how to feel. I really wasn't sure to be honest with you, but I do think that today's alignment makes best use of everyone's talents.

I love Mayo in the middle, but I figured the Patriots would essentially use Hightower as the Spikes replacement.

Brady6 · Jul 24, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
Never? 2001 post season? 2003? 2004 before the secondary injuries?
Hell last year when everyone was healthy was pretty exciting even though we clearly have upgraded the talent now.

I was overseas for most of 2000-2005 so I was more of a casual fan. I was excited for 2012 and 2013 defensive units but not to this level. I thought Talib was a very good CB but I didn't have confidence in him being on the field. Having Revis is a game changer.

Marinlik · Jul 24, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
If we are in man a safety is covering the TE, not a LB.

True, but really you have a base D with LB and one comes off the field in nickel/dime.
Depending on the opponent (and score of the game) that 3rd LB could play 10% to 80% of the snaps.

I think you are going to see a lot of complaining about LB coverage this year on this board. The secondary is so much better, that QBs are going to have to throw at the LBs more. No matter how well they do, giving up one completion equals someone around here concluding you suck. Given that RB vs LB is a mismatch with almost any LB there will no doubt be some big plays vs LBs. It happens all over the league, but is unacceptable here.

I wouldn't be so sure that we won't see a LB in coverage on a tight end. Look at how they played Collins at the end of last year. They let him follow the tight end all over the field. I wouldn't be surprised if they continued that this year against better tight ends.

Collins is very athletic and I see no reason why he wouldn't have man coverage against tight ends as that as something he showed last year that he can do.

Ring 6 · Jul 24, 2014

Marinlik said:
I wouldn't be so sure that we won't see a LB in coverage on a tight end. Look at how they played Collins at the end of last year. They let him follow the tight end all over the field. I wouldn't be surprised if they continued that this year against better tight ends.

No they didn't. Collins is very active in coverage, does well playing under the routes, and moves well in the zone, but its a total misrepresentation of the scheme to say he was manned up on the TE all day.
Who do you think the safeties were covering?

Collins is very athletic and I see no reason why he wouldn't have man coverage against tight ends as that as something he showed last year that he can do.

Of course it will happen on occassion, mostly in blitz packages, but there is no reason to play a LB man on man with a TE regularly. Certainly there can be combo coverage but that is a different story.

patfanken · Jul 24, 2014

I know we are all hungry for information, but WTF guys. I can't BELIEVE the amount of speculation, prognostication, and supposition that is being made based SOLEY on very haphazard impressions of what amounted to a walk through non-contact practice...... and the very first one to boot.

I'm as information starved as the next guy and have been following this thread all day, on and off, but to have about a dozen guys making roster decisions based on what we've heard today is kinda over the top wouldn't you say.

That being said, I'm going Saturday for the first padded practice, armed with a brand new pair of binoculars. I'll be taking notes and making a report....BUT what we see then will have very little to do with what will determine what we will see when they put out the final product in September because there will be something like 40 practices that will be dissected by the staff over many hours over the next 6 weeks that will determine who starts the season. Who finishes it is a WHOLE 'nother matter altogether.

I know among the things I will be watching closely is who is playing where. I think the placement of the LB's is among the more compelling issues of TC. I will also be interested to see who is getting snaps at the "other" safety slot. Even though I know its almost meaningless at this point of camp. I have a feeling that BB is going to let them all have opportunities at some point during camp.

I can't wait. I might even go tomorrow just to practice using the binocs and familiarizing myself with the numbers.

FlyboyPatsFan · Jul 24, 2014

> Will any site live stream from training camp on open practices? Want to see how the team looks. But sadly camp is a bit too far from Sweden.

I'm in the process of uploading about 40 minutes of video from today's camp. The gears turn slowly at YouTube ... I'll likely post it in a few hours.

Ring 6 · Jul 24, 2014

Marinlik said:
I wouldn't be so sure that we won't see a LB in coverage on a tight end. Look at how they played Collins at the end of last year. They let him follow the tight end all over the field. I wouldn't be surprised if they continued that this year against better tight ends.

Collins is very athletic and I see no reason why he wouldn't have man coverage against tight ends as that as something he showed last year that he can do.

By the way, if your theory of the scheme were correct, that would be reason to not want Collins manned up on TEs since in the last 4 games of the reg season and 2 playoff games where Collins played alot opponent TEs caught:

Cleveland 11-160-2TDs
Miami 4-37
Baltimore 8-78
Buffalo 3-55
Colts 7-81
Denver 10-109 and a TD

Thats 43-520-3 in 6 games, which would be, over a 16 game schedule 115-1386-8 allowed to TEs.
Lets hope for Collins sake I am right and he was 'following the TE all over the field' or we will need to convert him to a pass rusher.

Danger Zone · Jul 24, 2014

Deus Irae said:
To me, the biggest news of the day is that Mayo's in the middle.

Mayo in the middle for maximum mayo-spreading goodness.. its the only way to roll.

Marinlik · Jul 24, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
No they didn't. Collins is very active in coverage, does well playing under the routes, and moves well in the zone, but its a total misrepresentation of the scheme to say he was manned up on the TE all day.
Who do you think the safeties were covering?

Of course it will happen on occassion, mostly in blitz packages, but there is no reason to play a LB man on man with a TE regularly. Certainly there can be combo coverage but that is a different story.

Not saying all day. But they did have Collins cover tight ends in man coverage, both at the line and outside the numbers. Look mainly for the colts game where he had some man coverage on the tight end and did very well doing so. To say that a safety has to cover a tight end in man coverage is old/stiff thinking.

There is a reason to play a very athletic large linebacker against a tight end. I believe that linebackers like Collins can be the answer to the new wave of big and very athletic tight ends. He is big, he is fast and he can move well.

Ring 6 · Jul 24, 2014

patfanken said:
I know we are all hungry for information, but WTF guys. I can't BELIEVE the amount of speculation, prognostication, and supposition that is being made based SOLEY on very haphazard impressions of what amounted to a walk through non-contact practice...... and the very first one to boot.

I'm as information starved as the next guy and have been following this thread all day, on and off, but to have about a dozen guys making roster decisions based on what we've heard today is kinda over the top wouldn't you say.

I dont think that is happening. Who suggested a roster decision based on todays practice?
I think what you are seeing is people having an opportunity to apply what they expected to what happened on the first day. Why is that a bad thing?
Should we change the board to only allow discussing what happened in the past and not talk about the upcoming season because it requires speculation?
Don't we all understand that any projection is based upon the knowledge you have today and it can changed 180 degrees tomorrow if more information is available?

Deus Irae · Jul 24, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
Before we read settled science into these position lineups, BB has said that camp is where he gives players reps at different positions so that game context match ups in season and injuries requiring playing out of position as a fill in are not devastating. If player plays position P most of camp, THEN we can make conclusions.

I find Cannon at guard on day 1 to be interesting in light of last year's struggles at IOL, the contracts of Wendell and Connolly, and the addition of 3 rookies.

I find Mayo at MLB to be more interesting because Zolak said that's what he's expecting to see during the regular season.

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