Kraft stumping for London team (say it ain't so, Bob)

SB39 · Jul 18, 2014

chasa said:
no it wouldn't

the team would be an AFC east team, the dolphins would move to the NFC/Afc south, and Tampa/Jax would move to london

first off their schedule wouldn't be the same as a normal schedule. at the start of a season that would have a string of road games vs AFC east division opponents, this would be accomplished by having the team stay stateside, for those weeks.

If you think a team living out of hotels for weeks at a time solves the problem, you are sadly mistaken.

chasa said:
Flights from the East coast are a smidge longer to london, then flights from the west coast to the east coast.

And look how much complaining we see when the Patriots have to go west 3 times in a single season. Now imagine 8 trips where that is the shortest distance.

chasa said:
It's easily doable, there would need to be some minor concessions made scheduling wise, but people that act like this is impossible clearly are just too sheltered.

People who think a team based 3,000 miles away from the closest opponent can succeed are clearly just too naïve.

All of the above says nothing of the fact that not a single free agent would ever choose to go to London if they had a similar offer in the U.S. Any team based in London would have to significantly overpay any free agent it wanted. How do you propose to solve that? Give London a higher cap number than everyone else?

SB39 · Jul 18, 2014

unoriginal said:
Sixty years ago multiple-day train and bus trips were not unheard of, especially for West Coast college and professional teams.

The whole point is one of a competitive disadvantage. If everyone was doing it, there would be no competitive disadvantage. But having one single team travel an average of 4,000 miles per road game (and 5 time zones least) when everyone else travels less than 25% of that amount puts that team at an extreme disadvantage.

SB39 · Jul 18, 2014

Froob said:
**** London, why aren't we expanding to Canada? Toronto is absolutely ****ing nuts about the Toronto Raptors. They could definitely support an NFL team.

I think the NFL feels there are already enough teams packed into that part of continent. I don't see any way they throw another team in there. IMHO, the only chance Toronto gets a team is if Buffalo relocates.

Ivan · Jul 18, 2014

Unmitigated greed. Much as i respect Kraft and what he did to keep the Patriots in NE and save football from the lockout he falls right in line with the rest of the greedy bastards when it comes to expansion and more play-offs and games. And what really sucks about it is that he definitely knows the fans are not on board with this but tires to pretend it's what they really want.

mgteich · Jul 18, 2014

SB39 said:
I think the NFL is doing just fine in their current, mostly-not-global model.

And what percentage of an NFL team do you own?

The OWNERS are decided whether they would likely make more money, and at what risk.

In the end, the business must expand or die. This expansion need not mean more teams (I don't htink that it will). The business wants to increase their revenue, and they see the European market as the way to do so. Perhaps, they have learned from the last debacle in Europe.

I agree that the team(s) in England and the teams on the West coast would be at a disadvantage. Trips between England and the West coast would need to be coordinated with bye weeks.

Scheduling would be a challenge, but not really that difficult one. I would see the English team(s) being home for 4 weeks at a time. They should not play both West coast divisions in a given year.
========

I find it interesting that we have so much financial expertise on this board. So many seem to know that this will be a financial disaster and that Kraft must be getting senile to support such an idea. Personally, I believe that Kraft and his advisors know a bit more about the economics of the NFL than we do. And yes, there may be an initial cost, hopefully offset by future gains.

The reality is that the NFL will eventually expand to Europe and Canada. I don't a move to Canada anytime soon because of the effect on the CFL. London is a logical place to play. Mexico City might also be a logical place to play, but that is another story entirely.

Ivan · Jul 18, 2014

mgteich said:
And what percentage of an NFL team do you own?

The OWNERS are decided whether they would likely make more money, and at what risk.

In the end, the business must expand or die. This expansion need not mean more teams (I don't htink that it will). The business wants to increase their revenue, and they see the European market as the way to do so. Perhaps, they have learned from the last debacle in Europe.

I agree that the team(s) in England and the teams on the West coast would be at a disadvantage. Trips between England and the West coast would need to be coordinated with bye weeks.

Scheduling would be a challenge, but not really that difficult one. I would see the English team(s) being home for 4 weeks at a time. They should not play both West coast divisions in a given year.
========

I find it interesting that we have so much financial expertise on this board. So many seem to know that this will be a financial disaster and that Kraft must be getting senile to support such an idea. Personally, I believe that Kraft and his advisors know a bit more about the economics of the NFL than we do. And yes, there may be an initial cost, hopefully offset by future gains.

The reality is that the NFL will eventually expand to Europe and Canada. I don't a move to Canada anytime soon because of the effect on the CFL. London is a logical place to play. Mexico City might also be a logical place to play, but that is another story entirely.

Disagree completely, they are not in an expand or die situation by any means, they are one of the most lucrative moneymakers there is. More more more is actually what will kill the league and interest in it imo. i know the 18 game season and expanded play-offs are going to start diluting my interest in it and i won't be that surprised if hockey becomes my primary interest in the future.

mgteich · Jul 18, 2014

ALL businesses must grow or die. That is the nature of business. I agree that the NFL is very, very successful. That is precisely because owners, led by guys like Kraft, take the long view and make changes before they are absolutely needed. IMHO, the time to try a London team is when the NFL is doing well, not when they NEED the revenue to survive.

BTW, the current idea would not increase the number of teams. I would be surprised if a London team didn't bring in additional net revenues compared to having a team in Jacksonville.

BTW, has the increase to a 16 game season hurt the league? It is difficult to economically defend having 16 season games and 4 preseason games. If the NFL does not increase the number of regular season games, it will need to adjust ticket prices (up for regular season and down for preseason).

Ivan said:
Disagree completely, they are not in an expand or die situation by any means, they are one of the most lucrative moneymakers there is. More more more is actually what will kill the league and interest in it imo. i know the 18 game season and expanded play-offs are going to start diluting my interest in it and i won't be that surprised if hockey becomes my primary interest in the future.

Big-T · Jul 18, 2014

Every home game for them would be like a road game.

Who's going to switch teams at this point? I doubt anyone outside of London will have any affiliation with a team called "London".

If there's a New England @ London game the stadium would be full of Patriots fans - the same goes if they played Chicago, Dallas, Denver, San Fran or Miami.

Terrible idea.

+ Good luck finding players wanting to pay British taxes at 40%+

Gronkandez · Jul 18, 2014

How about putting a team in Los Angeles instead of London. Nah, that would never work.

PatsFanSince74 · Jul 18, 2014

ausbacker said:
Soccer has as much chance of overtaking the NFL in the USA as it does overtaking AFL in Australia. Sweet **** all.

A team in London is nonsensical. This isn't Canada, this is an 11 hour fight from the West Coast to the UK. IMO, it's plain silly.

I agree that it's highly unlikely (to the point of virtual impossibility) that soccer would ever be more popular than american football in the US, but the popularity gap is shrinking. What's more, in the most recent fifa rankings, the us soccer team is now more highly ranked (15) than england's (20). Ten years ago, that would have been unimaginable.

Ivan · Jul 18, 2014

mgteich said:
ALL businesses must grow or die. That is the nature of business. I agree that the NFL is very, very successful. That is precisely because owners, led by guys like Kraft, take the long view and make changes before they are absolutely needed. IMHO, the time to try a London team is when the NFL is doing well, not when they NEED the revenue to survive.

BTW, the current idea would not increase the number of teams. I would be surprised if a London team didn't bring in additional net revenues compared to having a team in Jacksonville.

BTW, has the increase to a 16 game season hurt the league? It is difficult to economically defend having 16 season games and 4 preseason games. If the NFL does not increase the number of regular season games, it will need to adjust ticket prices (up for regular season and down for preseason).

We disagree, i don't believe they need to continue expanding infinitely and you do, and i think and 18 game schedule and expanded play-offs will ultimately harm viewer interest not help it, i know it will diminish my interest. I have been a hard core football fan for all of my life and i still find it the most interesting sport to follow in terms of the offseason and team building, however hockey has overtaken it as my favorite sport to watch games, and i find the NHL Play-offs far more exciting to watch than the NFL play-offs, and i wouldn't be surprised if that trend is happening with other fans as well.

Joker · Jul 18, 2014

what a complete Pollyanna viewpoint...totally unreal.

Put a team in Mexico City????????? yeah, go out for a taco and your QB gets kidnapped and held for ransom...over and over and over. Terrific. Growth!!!!!

London is much closer to the Al Qaeda presence in Europe and sports a burgeoning middle eastern population. What an inviting target for a terrorist strike of massive proportions. An American NFL game targeted for the annihilation of an entire team and thousands of innocent patrons. "Forward thinking!!! Growth!!!".

You want growth because you fear a total collapse of the sport if they don't expand? OK...L.A. Alabama ...Nevada...there's plenty of room to expand RIGHT HERE.

Mexico City...still can't believe THAT one.

Wheelman · Jul 18, 2014

fnordcircle said:
"Computers will never need more than 640k of RAM" -Bill Gates.

"I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time." Later in the column, he added, "I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again." - Bill Gates

Ivan · Jul 18, 2014

mgteich said:
ALL businesses must grow or die. That is the nature of business. I agree that the NFL is very, very successful. That is precisely because owners, led by guys like Kraft, take the long view and make changes before they are absolutely needed. IMHO, the time to try a London team is when the NFL is doing well, not when they NEED the revenue to survive.

Mg, I am well aware that there is a contingent of poster's here who believe that the NFL owners can do whatever they want anytime they want and are always right, period, and there is also a contingent of posters here who disagree with that and believe some of their planned moves are bad for the game, period, nothing is going to change that and both sides are simply going to continue to see that differently, period.

Wheelman · Jul 18, 2014

AzorianPats said:
Is the CFL really that popular in Canada?

Yes

dales804 · Jul 18, 2014

Will they have to change the name of the NFL? It's National now; would it become the IFL (international)? Because if a team is based outside the US, the NFL name just doesn't make sense.

moosekill · Jul 18, 2014

It is all about the TV revenue and growning that. A team in LA or a team in Alabama, isn't going to expand that at all. The NFL has to find a new market and they are looking at Europe. England is the only place that makes sense. Economics 101 is grow or die for any business, if the NFL doesn't grow it will stagnate and die.

A lot of people here keep equating teams in new cities to expansion in the NFL, but all that does is reshuffle the same deck, not make it bigger. The NFL wants to make it a much bigger deck.

Anyone that thinks the NFL isn't worried about soccer is crazy. Have you seen how many kids are playing soccer, it is huge! At the same time, the media is driving home the dangers for your kids playing football. Soon there will be more kids playing soccer than football,if there aren't already, and when those kids grow up, what are they going to be watching? NFL or FIFA? That is why the NFL has to grow, a smaller percentage of a much larger pie is better that a smaller percentage of a smaller pie.

moosekill · Jul 18, 2014

Popularity[edit]
As of 2006, over 24 million Americans play soccer. There are 4.2 million players (2.5 million men and 1.7 million women) registered with U.S. Soccer.[19] Thirty percent of American households contain someone playing soccer, a figure second only to baseball.[20] Increasing numbers of Americans, having played the game in their youth, are now avid spectators. A 2011 ESPN sports poll ranked soccer as the fourth most popular team sport in the United States, with 8.2% of Americans ranking soccer as their favorite sport (compared to 3.8% for hockey).[21] A 2011 ESPN sports poll ranked soccer as the second most popular sport in the country for 12-24-year-olds.[22] In 2013,Lionel Messi became the first soccer player ever to rank among the Top 10 most popular athletes in the U.S.[23]

DaBruinz · Jul 18, 2014

SB39 said:
There's nothing "easy" about playing a grueling football schedule where your shortest trip is over 3,000 miles and 5 time zones.

It may work financially, but it would be a disaster competitively.

Unless they are planning on bringing back the Concorde so the trip can be done in 3 hours, it's really not feasible. Furthermore, I just don't believe that there is really enough interest to sell out 8 games a year. They sell out the one game because it's a novelty, in my honest opinion.

dales804 · Jul 18, 2014

moosekill said:
It is all about the TV revenue and growning that. A team in LA or a team in Alabama, isn't going to expand that at all. The NFL has to find a new market and they are looking at Europe. England is the only place that makes sense. Economics 101 is grow or die for any business, if the NFL doesn't grow it will stagnate and die.

A lot of people here keep equating teams in new cities to expansion in the NFL, but all that does is reshuffle the same deck, not make it bigger. The NFL wants to make it a much bigger deck.

Anyone that thinks the NFL isn't worried about soccer is crazy. Have you seen how many kids are playing soccer, it is huge! At the same time, the media is driving home the dangers for your kids playing football. Soon there will be more kids playing soccer than football,if there aren't already, and when those kids grow up, what are they going to be watching? NFL or FIFA? That is why the NFL has to grow, a smaller percentage of a much larger pie is better that a smaller percentage of a smaller pie.

When you say kids what age are you referring to?

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