Interesting college evalution of Buchanan

I already hoped Buchanan stepped up as an impact passrusher this year because he has immense raw talent. He is explosive, can bend,has long arms and has some moves for how raw he is. But I just found out his raw talent is on another level. The sporting news talks to many NFL scouts to put their issues together for the draft and college player projections entering the season. And from the data they gathered,they had Michael Buchanan rated #1 as the most talented and explosive DEs entering the college season that NFL teams will covet in the draft following the season. They had him a pinch ahead of Mingo who was their very close #2. Obviously they didn't project his injury derailments. They had him projected as a top 10 pick. The Scouts said they really liked Mercilus but most scouts said Buchanan was a more explosive,athletic and talented player. A whole different animal than Mercilus. I knew some teams said he was more fearsome than Mercilus at times but I had no idea scouts rated his raw talent that high. Sporting news gathered info from scouts and ranked Buchanan as college footballs most explosive edge rusher entering the season and the most coveted entering the draft.

This is WOW ENCOURAGING considering we need an edge rusher to step up. This defense can be very special this season. I just hope bill gives him opportunity and makes it a priority to co as coach him up and get him ready mentally and technically. Because with Jones Easley Collins blitzing and Buchanan our passrush SHOULD be something special. With our improved coverage and blossoming ferocious passrush talent this could be the best defense in the NFL. Wouldn't it be so awesome Buchanan stepping up terrorizing QBs at a faster rate than Denver's high priced Demarcus Ware. With Jones Easley Buchanan Collins and Wilfork/Kelly freeing them up, the defense could savagely harrass QBs this season.

PatFanCraig said:

I already hoped Buchanan stepped up as an impact passrusher this year because he has immense raw talent. He is explosive, can bend,has long arms and has some moves for how raw he is. But I just found out his raw talent is on another level. The sporting news talks to many NFL scouts to put their issues together for the draft and college player projections entering the season. And from the data they gathered,they had Michael Buchanan rated #1 as the most talented and explosive DEs entering the college season that NFL teams will covet in the draft following the season. They had him a pinch ahead of Mingo who was their very close #2. Obviously they didn't project his injury derailments. They had him projected as a top 10 pick. The Scouts said they really liked Mercilus but most scouts said Buchanan was a more explosive,athletic and talented player. A whole different animal than Mercilus. I knew some teams said he was more fearsome than Mercilus at times but I had no idea scouts rated his raw talent that high. Sporting news gathered info from scouts and ranked Buchanan as college footballs most explosive edge rusher entering the season and the most coveted entering the draft.

This is WOW ENCOURAGING considering we need an edge rusher to step up. This defense can be very special this season. I just hope bill gives him opportunity and makes it a priority to co as coach him up and get him ready mentally and technically. Because with Jones Easley Collins blitzing and Buchanan our passrush SHOULD be something special. With our improved coverage and blossoming ferocious passrush talent this could be the best defense in the NFL. Wouldn't it be so awesome Buchanan stepping up terrorizing QBs at a faster rate than Denver's high priced Demarcus Ware. With Jones Easley Buchanan Collins and Wilfork/Kelly freeing them up, the defense could savagely harrass QBs this season.

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Do you have a link?

Give me a sec

My tablets being difficult. But key in sportingnews.com 2012\ 2013 draft-defensive ends -Michael Buchanan. It should come up. I will get exact link in a couple mins. article was by Russ Lande

PatFanCraig said:

I already hoped Buchanan stepped up as an impact passrusher this year because he has immense raw talent. He is explosive, can bend,has long arms and has some moves for how raw he is. But I just found out his raw talent is on another level. The sporting news talks to many NFL scouts to put their issues together for the draft and college player projections entering the season. And from the data they gathered,they had Michael Buchanan rated #1 as the most talented and explosive DEs entering the college season that NFL teams will covet in the draft following the season. They had him a pinch ahead of Mingo who was their very close #2. Obviously they didn't project his injury derailments. They had him projected as a top 10 pick. The Scouts said they really liked Mercilus but most scouts said Buchanan was a more explosive,athletic and talented player. A whole different animal than Mercilus. I knew some teams said he was more fearsome than Mercilus at times but I had no idea scouts rated his raw talent that high. Sporting news gathered info from scouts and ranked Buchanan as college footballs most explosive edge rusher entering the season and the most coveted entering the draft.

This is WOW ENCOURAGING considering we need an edge rusher to step up. This defense can be very special this season. I just hope bill gives him opportunity and makes it a priority to co as coach him up and get him ready mentally and technically. Because with Jones Easley Collins blitzing and Buchanan our passrush SHOULD be something special. With our improved coverage and blossoming ferocious passrush talent this could be the best defense in the NFL. Wouldn't it be so awesome Buchanan stepping up terrorizing QBs at a faster rate than Denver's high priced Demarcus Ware. With Jones Easley Buchanan Collins and Wilfork/Kelly freeing them up, the defense could savagely harrass QBs this season.

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Craig,

I appreciate the enthusiasm which you bring, but sometimes it's really hard to figure out your point. As far as I can tell, you are excited because you found a Sporting News article from 2012 predicting that Michael Buchanan, who you are high on, would be a top 10 pick - is that right? If so, a simple link to the article and statement to that effect would have been clearer.

FWIW, guys are hyped as 1st round draft picks all the time, sometimes within a month of the draft. We've seen highly hyped prospects go undrafted. Injuries, off-field issues, inconsistent play, poor measurables, poor interviews - all of these things factor in to the draft process.

There is no doubt that Buchanan and many other late round/UDFA prospects have the skill sets to excel in the NFL. That skill set is probably only a small fraction of what it takes to succeed. I'm personally hopeful about Buchanan, but the fact that the Sporting News (a site known for its odd player evaluations) had him hyped up 2 years ago is essentially irrelevant at this point. But if it excites you even more, then more power to you. I don't mean to rain on your parade.

MC

xlcjw72 said:

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...ds-rankings-michael-buchanan-barkevious-mingo

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Thanks for the link. I knew he had dropped due to having his jaw wired and losing weight, but didn't know he was considered that promising (at least according to SN). I liked him from the start, but it's more than athleticism in the NFL.

Troubling he had the job, then lost it because of mistakes, but not that troubling, it's a learning experience. Encouraging that he worked hard at teams after his demotion and he's had an offseason to build his weight and strength back.

I don't get too high about athletic projects, it's consistent performance that counts, but i've always been a fan of his potential.

Vernon Gholston was once the #6 overall pick based on his raw talent and measurables.

Aaron Maybin went #11 one year based on his raw talent and measurables.


Not saying that Buchanan will end up like them, but he's not going to be a stud based on raw potential either.

mayoclinic said:

There is no doubt that Buchanan and many other late round/UDFA prospects have the skill sets to excel in the NFL. That skill set is probably only a small fraction of what it takes to succeed. I'm personally hopeful about Buchanan, but the fact that the Sporting News (a site known for its odd player evaluations) had him hyped up 2 years ago is essentially irrelevant at this point.

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I have to agree. Buchanan was a draft favorite of mine, precisely because he seemed like an "undervalued stock" after his disastrous college season, but his draft status and college evals no longer matter now. (You're new to the site, but Buchanan's history as a hot prospect turned ice-cold after his fight/injury/weight loss/dreadful senior season was much discussed during his draft year.)

patchick said:

I have to agree. Buchanan was a draft favorite of mine, precisely because he seemed like an "undervalued stock" after his disastrous college season, but his draft status and college evals no longer matter now.

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Andy Johnson said it best, over 4 years ago:

AndyJohnson said:

When all is said and done, every draft choice is simply a work in progress who must progress astronomically beyond where they are on the day they are drafted in many areas, including:

-Working out to become bigger,stronger, and faster
-Improving techniques because top picks can get by in college on ability and weak technique, but can't in the pros
-Being a professional football player, including staying out of trouble, nutrition, lifestyle, dedication, etc Again a top player can party all night in college and still get by on talent, but will flop in the NFL
-Adapting to the differences between the college and pro game
-Dealing with the fact that it is much harder in the NFL, that you have a battle against everyone you line up against. In college maybe 10% of the guys you face are good enough to make it to the NFL and they are 20 now you are facing 27 year olds who are 7 years bigger, stronger and technically sound

In the end, you need a crystal ball to know what the raw product you draft will evolve into.Thats why half the picks bust, not because their ability was poorly assessed, but because they did not progress (or progress enough) AFTER being drafted. If it were possible to determine commitment, discipline and will before the draft, players would end up performing in the order they were drafted and there would be no busts.

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http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/do-we-really-know-a-short-excerpt.339920/

Buchanan has the raw tools and skill set to succeed, and he was a good bargain in the 7th round. Whether he can do all of the things Andy lists to take advantage of those raw tools and skills is another matter, and still an open question.

mayoclinic said:

That skill set is probably only a small fraction of what it takes to succeed. I'm personally hopeful about Buchanan, but the fact that the Sporting News (a site known for its odd player evaluations) had him hyped up 2 years ago is essentially irrelevant at this point.

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So true.

There's so many players that show up in the "next year's top 10 category" at the back of the draft magazine's who fall off the earth the next year. There's even guys we've seen as sure first rounders who drop off the face of the earth right before the draft. And disproportionately, these guys are pass rushers.

My guess is that this is due to the disparity in the consistency of quality OL play between pro and college. Edge rusher becomes the easiest position to most easily dominate misleadingly.

Whatever it is, we know how fleeting a grade on a pass rusher is, we've seen them, George Selvie, Ricky Saap, Sergio Kindle, etc., etc. We've seen where edge guys are graded way too high and get picked by the Jets. Sometimes, a guy's stock drops but it turns out a mistake, ie, Michael Johnson.

I'd be curious to see what a pro scout would say, but my guess is it's as volatile a position as there is when it comes to scouting.

mayoclinic said:

Craig,

I appreciate the enthusiasm which you bring, but sometimes it's really hard to figure out your point. As far as I can tell, you are excited because you found a Sporting News article from 2012 predicting that Michael Buchanan, who you are high on, would be a top 10 pick - is that right? If so, a simple link to the article and statement to that effect would have been clearer.

FWIW, guys are hyped as 1st round draft picks all the time, sometimes within a month of the draft. We've seen highly hyped prospects go undrafted. Injuries, off-field issues, inconsistent play, poor measurables, poor interviews - all of these things factor in to the draft process.

There is no doubt that Buchanan and many other late round/UDFA prospects have the skill sets to excel in the NFL. That skill set is probably only a small fraction of what it takes to succeed. I'm personally hopeful about Buchanan, but the fact that the Sporting News (a site known for its odd player evaluations) had him hyped up 2 years ago is essentially irrelevant at this point. But if it excites you even more, then more power to you. I don't mean to rain on your parade.

MC

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Mayo didn't you notice I said talent to develop. And said I would like coaching staff to make him a hot project and have him work hard to improve mentally and physically. I'm excited because for a change we have the kind if prototype talent teams covet to develop into an impact passrusher. You don't think the browns and phins knew Mingo and Jordan had some developing to do mentally and physically before being impact pass rushers. Here's the thing they were drafted in the top 6 picks because they havewhat it takes to excel as an impact passrusher. Its nice to know we got a dude with equal talent and movement skills at a bargain. The scouting report never said future pro bowler. It simply was rating their ability and movement skills. And their statements were made from feedback they got from various scMingo

Yes Buchanan could have been overrated but I don't think he was. He was given his grade on raw talent and movement skills. Burst/bend,flexibility/closing speed/power. Most pass rushers fall due elite college production. After further evaluation scouts see that his production was at college level and scheme produced. They realize he doesn't have the raw movement skills and talent to make an impact in the NFL and stock plummets. Other players with pedestrian production skyrocket because they possess the raw talent be an impact passrusher in the NFL. Of course provided they work hard to fill out their frame and develop mentally for the more complex NFL. Jordan and Mingo didn't have 10 sacks combined. They were top6. Trent Murphy had elite production but many teams would not have touched him til round4. Mercilus had astronomical production but moderately exciting talent for the NFL. Teammate Buchanan had good production but scouts,coaches,opponents agreed he had far better skills to make an impact in the NFL. Mercilus was closer to his ceiling,he had moves and his frame was matured. Michael Johnson was my favorite in 09 draft. I thought for sure we would draft him. His stock plummeted because his lean frame was overpowered and washed at times. I believed his frame would mature.

Buchanan Like all explosive thin edge rushers including mingo/Barr I know has work to do. But in an ever increasing pass happy league, raw talent like mingo/Buchanan will be drafted and made Hot projects and micro managed. Of course there is no garuntee. But doesn't it make sense to want to develop impact pass rushers and be excited you have a player that can step up and make an impact like Michael Johnson,Olivier vernon or aldon smith/Gazelle? Who wants to stay with players who are consistent but stagnant? Because unless you won the Superbowl, in my opinion you need to be looking to improve. Players like Bills good Buddy Ninkovich and Harbaughs good friend Jarret Johnson are solid and very assignment sound players but unfortunately vanilla and will never make that impact to get to the next level. Consistent is good but consistent at what? Just being solid?
I'm a sore loser I want to improve our weaknesses to finally win that trophy. AND I GET VERY EXCITED OVER PLAYERS WHO CAN MAKE AN IMPACT IMPROVING OUR WEAKNESSES. I KNOW I get very excited! But its been a while since we could get excited over a player who can make that passrush impact. Our passrush has been anemic and we haven't had anybody to get excited over being that impact. Crable and Cunningham were nothing to ever write home about. We finally have some players to get excited about their impact potential. Jones/Easley/Buchanan/Collins/Moore!

Im usually very good at projecting lineman's NFL impact potential. Offense and defense. Side note BTW I never thought Melvin Ingram or Courtney Upshaw would amount to a hill of beans. And I still don't think they will. They suck! I was worried we would draft one of them. But I been wrong on occasion so maybe Ingram will see a pro bowl. Of course there are other variables other than judging just movement skills and power. Like how hard they work to mature their frames and maximize game time conditioning/working hard to master the mental aspects and craft of their position. I really like Buchanan a lot before those articles. Love his burst/flexibility/length/closing speed. I even like his power for a guy who needs to mature his frame. He reminds me a little of jason taylor/Michael Johnson and shades of Charles Haley. He validated my opinion of him some when given opportunity. He had 2 sacks in 3 weeks in limited snaps.He gave D'Brickashaw a fit to where he needed some XTRA edge help and Buchanan still ended up beating him for a sack. Not bad for a raw rookie! But i imagine he can't take to many of Ninkovich's snaps just yet.

BTW had Buchanan not have been injured and progressed instead of losing weight/explosion he may have been a top 20 or so. Important thing is he is back to physically progressing. BTW popus keep inserting in my posts.this one had no X delete.

Michael's skillset is similar to that of a Bruce Irvin, who went top 20.

I don't think Irvin was worthy of that spot, and think he would struggle similarly to Buchanan if placed in our system.

For a player with obvious deficiencies, Mike never put up huge pass-rushing stats, either... maxing out with 7.5 sacks in a season.

Talking about draft spots is essentially useless at this point, over a year after he entered the L.

To make my point a little more clear, at this point Buchanan is nothing more than a niche player who still has to carve out his own role and prove that he can be relied upon to do the basics. He can get all the sacks in the world, but if he can't ever set the edge, he's gonna get yanked.

BTW I'm extremely optimistic about him. But there are a lot of things behind the scenes that I am not privy to that will determine if he can become a capable starter at any point.

That's my point. This is an ever increasing pass happy league and players with the raw skills elite rushers show are drafted ahead of pure production. 2013 drafts top 3 edge rushers combined for less sacks Ryan Trent Murphy had last season. Because they have what it takes to possibly become impact pass rushers in the NFL. A player who lacks the gifted talent will never be a feared passrusher. The player with the upside and high ceiling at least they have a good chance. The player lacking the talent has little to no chance of ever becoming a feared passrusher. Players like Mingo/Buchanan/Barr if the coaching staff does its job coaching and motivating these players to work hard and reach their high ceiling will reward the coaches for their time and effort. Its a matter of coaches working and doing their jobs to be sure these immensely talented players reach their potential. The polished Murphy is ready and easy to coach but that he has to offer. While the NFL ready player is playing solid ball for you right away and makes the coaching job easier, by the end of the season the raw Anthony Barr who took work and effort to coach up is now making an impact and has become a game changer. While Trent Murphys is still just playing good fundamental football. Which is why Mingo and his 7 college sacks will be drafted over polished Murphy and his 15 sacks every time!