Let's talk about the lines: OFFENSE

Brady6 said:

I followed this draft very closely, I followed the prospects and read the majority of scouting reports, and I know the talent level that was in this draft. I seldom saw you in the draft part of this board. It was a deep draft. Halapio was a starter since midway into his freshman season, he practiced against Dominique Easley, Sharrif Floyd, and he started next Maurkice Pouncey and Mike Pouncey.

Halapio is a talented player, and if you watched his tape from college, you would not question if he will make the roster.

Click to expand...

Who he was on a team with has nothing to do with his ability to make it in the NFL.
You can read as much as you want, but when you make a comment that the draft was so deep players drafted in the 6th round would be 3rd rounders in other seasons, you lose all credibility.

If there was no question he would make the team, he wouldn't have lasted until the 6th round. Doesn't mean he can't but does mean as of now he is borderline to ever see an NFL field in real action.

Brady6 said:

I think the message was Easley a top 15 talent in round 1, Garopollo a potential starting QB in round 2, and then OL.

Click to expand...

I thought the message was he hates last years OL and its proven by using day 3 picks on OL?

Brady6 said:

I followed this draft very closely, I followed the prospects and read the majority of scouting reports, and I know the talent level that was in this draft. I seldom saw you in the draft part of this board. It was a deep draft. Halapio was a starter since midway into his freshman season, he practiced against Dominique Easley, Sharrif Floyd, and he started next Maurkice Pouncey and Mike Pouncey.

Halapio is a talented player, and if you watched his tape from college, you would not question if he will make the roster.

Click to expand...

Wait, aren't you the guy who used all of that draft study to say Halapio was a terrible pick and had no chance to make the team as soon as he was drafted?

AndyJohnson said:

Wait, aren't you the guy who used all of that draft study to say Halapio was a terrible pick and had no chance to make the team as soon as he was drafted?

Click to expand...

He is, if the posts haven't been deleted there's a lot that essentially called Halapio useless not a scheme fit etc etc.

AndyJohnson said:

Who he was on a team with has nothing to do with his ability to make it in the NFL.
You can read as much as you want, but when you make a comment that the draft was so deep players drafted in the 6th round would be 3rd rounders in other seasons, you lose all credibility.

If there was no question he would make the team, he wouldn't have lasted until the 6th round. Doesn't mean he can't but does mean as of now he is borderline to ever see an NFL field in real action.

Click to expand...

I am not that worried about my creditability, Zach Mettenberger who was talked about as a first or second round pick leading up to the draft was taken the pick before Halapio, our #30 pick in the sixth round had a pre-draft grade of round 3-4, as did many others taken in the sixth and seventh round.

AndyJohnson said:

Wait, aren't you the guy who used all of that draft study to say Halapio was a terrible pick and had no chance to make the team as soon as he was drafted?

Click to expand...

I am that poster, that was my initial reaction but I went back, watched his college tape, and read his scouting reports, and I changed my view. I formed the initial view based on his athletic metrics being slower than what we normally would look for. On the field, though he plays quick and is violent especially with his hands.

Big-T said:

He is, if the posts haven't been deleted there's a lot that essentially called Halapio useless not a scheme fit etc etc.

Click to expand...

I did not think he was a good fit initially, I admit that but that initial view was built primarily on ignorance of looking just at his workout numbers. He is a good player, with a lot of upside, the view against him right now is based on ignorance of where he was selected in the draft, which for the record was 30 picks higher than Tom Brady.

Brady6 said:

Wendell allowed 37 QB disruptions last season, Connolly allowed 33, a combined 70 disruptions. I am not sure if they are disasters, or if it was the offense being so inexperienced that inflated these disruptions.

Click to expand...

Or in other words over 95% of the times Tom Brady dropped back to pass, he was unsacked, unhiit or unhurried because of the efforts of Wendell, and Connolly.

And off course that makes the very large assumption that the amateur grader who rated those players knew enough of the Pats line calls and adjustments to correctly assign blame or even determine if Brady was hurried or not. I can only hope that you are graded equally as subjectively and as held at as high a level of success in your life.

I want to throw a few things out there. I could be very wrong but I expect wendell to be safe while connoly gets the ax. Here's the thing, I don't believe cannon is quick enough to be a guard. I like his power but he is overrated. After watching the saints game about 5x Cannon consistently struggled in pass blocking. My early prediction is rg will come down to kline/halapio. I think the biggest wild card is Flemming, who to my amateur eyes seems like a beast.

patfanken said:

Or in other words over 95% of the times Tom Brady dropped back to pass, he was unsacked, unhiit or unhurried because of the efforts of Wendell, and Connolly.

And off course that makes the very large assumption that the amateur grader who rated those players knew enough of the Pats line calls and adjustments to correctly assign blame or even determine if Brady was hurried or not. I can only hope that you are graded equally as subjectively and as held at as high a level of success in your life.

Click to expand...

Do we even know where those numbers come from?

Ivan said:

You seem to be having a very hard time understanding that Carl Nicks is not available.

Click to expand...

Actually he is available, Tampa back after the season toyed around to see if they could get anything for him if they were to trade him. Besides almost anybody other than elite qbs,/WRs/pass rushers are available if a team made the right offer. Even then with the right offer an elite QB/wr/passrusher could be dealt. A top guard is always available. And great teams pick their spots in trading for/signing talent. As in underrated talent and talent with pro bowl breakout ability on bad teams/poorly coached/bad system/ bad motivation and work habits. I can't think of a player in the NFL more underrated than Carl Nicks. Larry Allen is a total legend. He intimidated all pro Defensive Lineman with his legandary power. He to could play LT and he actually dominated there as he was more athletic than credited. He was already strong and athletic when drafted but like the rest of the cowboy wall his power suddenly rocketed into the stratosphere. Carl Nicks plays with similar power and aggression as well as the athleticism to play LT. Greg Robinson was the #2 pick in the draft because of similar rare power and even more rare athleticism to go with that kind of power. We can obtain a player with similar ability of Larry Allen and this years draft #2 overall pick. Like I said pick our spots acquiring impact talent or talent costing more than $6 mil a year. If we can get Greg Robinson ability for the cap hit of Wendall/Connolly combined WHO WOULDNT DO THAT! A game changer who makes other around him better including our OLine and Tom Brady. I bet Brady would choose elite pass protection over adding Andre Johnson. Brady would carve up defenses like a thanksgiving turkey. Consider our OLine that would be the best in the NFL and maybe NFL history.

LT SOLDER
LG MANKINS
C CONNOLLY/HALAPIO/STORK COMPETE
RG NICKS
RT VOLLMER

IF SOLDER OR VOLLMER WERE INJURED NICKS FILLS IN WHILE CANNON OR FLEMING COMPETE TO FILL IN NICKS RG SPOT AND OLINE IS STILL DOMINANT. CONNOLLY IS ACTUALLY DECENT AT CENTER ALTHOUGH NOTHING TO WRITE HOME ABOUT. AT GUARD HE IS TERRIBLE. WOULD BE NICE TO SEE HALAPIO OR STORK OUTPLAY HIM AT CENTER AND BE AT LEAST SOMEWHAT OF A STANDOUT.

Carl Nicks turns an embarrassing weakness into a weapon.he can be obtained cheap considering he is the most dominant guard in the NFL and really a top 20 player in the NFL. Guys like yanda ,Grubbs, prime MANKINS are fine NFL guards but Carl Nicks is on a whole different level. He strikes fear into pro bowl defensive lineman known for striking fear into offenses. A rare game changer from the guard position. And because he is so underrated and returning from injury we can realistically make him a New England Patriot. We can be leaders in innovation and brilliant bold moves that makes fans of 31 NFL teams envious when our OLine shuts down those menacing defenses on the way to a championship trophy. Every analyst in the country will be raving at how we outsmarted the rest of the league while breaking down our dominance over those defenses just like they jocked and raved Pete Carrolls defense that dominated and countered the highlight reel offense. Our offensive lines dominance paving the for Bradys precision high octane scoring will be this years Legion of Boom talk and place in the pop culture spotlight. While Richard Sherman is at a loss for words after he was torched while his teams passrush faked injuries to get out of being mauled by the patriot OLine.

PatFanCraig said:

Actually he is available, Tampa back after the season toyed around to see if they could get anything for him if they were to trade him. Besides almost anybody other than elite qbs,/WRs/pass rushers are available if a team made the right offer. Even then with the right offer an elite QB/wr/passrusher could be dealt. A top guard is always available. .

Click to expand...

What they need to do is trade Malllett for Suh and give the Rams their 2018 5th rounder for Robert Quinn, then they would be stacked........................Belichick loves Suh, he fishes with him and my friend puts the ice in their cooler and says he would trade Mallett for Suh in a heartbeat and will offer him a contract next offseason whether he is under contract or not. And the guy who mows my neighbors lawn is from the same town that Robert Quinn's grandmother is from and he says that Quinn wants to be a Patriot and will pay the Rams a million dollars to deal him to NE for that draft pick, and John Halapio's roommate, whoever that ends up being.

Carl Nicks has been a good player. We don't need multiple books written in the thread to tell us that. However, Carl Nicks is not here. He's not likely to be here, either.

It's a numbers game.

Solder
Mankins
Wendell
Connolly
Vollmer
Cannon
Kline
Fleming
Stork
Halapio
Barker
Cave
Martin

That's where we're at now. That doesn't include any current roster spot holder that I may have forgotten, and it doesn't include any late additions which may come in the relatively near future. And, yes, it's true: it doesn't include Carl Nicks.

Somewhere between 8-10 are likely to make the team. If it's 8, at least two of the talked about players will be axed. If it's 9, at least one of them will. Unless the Patriots are carrying 10 or more offensive linemen, someone of 'importance' is getting axed.*

Beyond that, there's nothing new since OTAs.





*Injury situations not included

PatFanCraig said:

We can be leaders in innovation and brilliant bold moves that makes fans of 31 NFL teams envious when our OLine shuts down those menacing defenses on the way to a championship trophy. Every analyst in the country will be raving at how we outsmarted the rest of the league while breaking down our dominance over those defenses just like they jocked and raved Pete Carrolls defense that dominated and countered the highlight reel offense. Our offensive lines dominance paving the for Bradys precision high octane scoring will be this years Legion of Boom talk and place in the pop culture spotlight. While Richard Sherman is at a loss for words after he was torched while his teams passrush faked injuries to get out of being mauled by the patriot OLine.

Click to expand...

I agree completely, the Patriots can get way out ahead of the curve and build a great OL that demolishezs their opponents and leaves D Coords in a sweaty panic as they watch our Monsters of the Fenway OL destroy their weak pitiful defenses. Greg Robinson and Carl Nicks and Tony Mandarich out of retirement will Maul and obliterate the unsuspecting defenses who mistakenly get in their way, and Brady's laserlike precision will give Josh Boyce a 2,000 yard season with 30 Td's. Their 6 man OL will set new trends and revolutionize the game.



OT-Vollmer/Jason Peters

RG-Greg Robinson/ Marshall Yanda

Extra Guard/Demolisher set-Carl nicks

C-The Guy from Cleveland

LG-Mankins/ Larry Allen

OT-Solder/Mandarich

AndyJohnson said:

Who he was on a team with has nothing to do with his ability to make it in the NFL.
You can read as much as you want, but when you make a comment that the draft was so deep players drafted in the 6th round would be 3rd rounders in other seasons, you lose all credibility.

If there was no question he would make the team, he wouldn't have lasted until the 6th round. Doesn't mean he can't but does mean as of now he is borderline to ever see an NFL field in real action.

Click to expand...

Coaches weren't just encouraged by what they saw in mini camp they were impressed borderline shocked at the power and natural comfort HALAPIO displayed. He didn't look like a rookie. Players fall through the cracks and are underrated all the time. Carl Nicks the most dominant guard in the NFL was a round5 pick. OLineman fall through the cracks more than other positions. The dude played weigh a torn pec. Players sit out for pulled pec muscles. For starters the injury pain kept him from recoiling his punch which is very powerful. At this point he is far ahead of Stork who felt overwhelmed to the point he couldn't hike the football as part of his various other mental errors. Ironic for a guy drafted even though he lacked some physical power/skill due to his flawless fundamentals and technical skills. HALAPIO practiced at center for Florida and they were confident he could play if necessary. They actually considered moving him to center for a while at least last season when their center struggled for a stretch including routinely rag dolled by Tim Jernigan. But the center rebounded somewhat and there wasn't anybody to replace Halapio at guard. Why would they expose him to the practice squad. They were very impressed in mini camp. Consider HALAPIO had moved to center and displayed his power to man up guards. He could have been a Second rounder or higher especially if he played center and was healthy. Considering a torn pec Halapio impressed many scouts.

Ivan said:

I agree completely, the Patriots can get way out ahead of the curve and build a great OL that demolishezs their opponents and leaves D Coords in a sweaty panic as they watch our Monsters of the Fenway OL destroy their weak pitiful defenses. Greg Robinson and Carl Nicks and Tony Mandarich out of retirement will Maul and obliterate the unsuspecting defenses who mistakenly get in their way, and Brady's laserlike precision will give Josh Boyce a 2,000 yard season with 30 Td's. Their 6 man OL will set new trends and revolutionize the game.



OT-Vollmer/Jason Peters

RG-Greg Robinson/ Marshall Yanda

Extra Guard/Demolisher set-Carl nicks

C-The Guy from Cleveland

LG-Mankins/ Larry Allen

OT-Solder/Mandarich

Click to expand...

Lmao does mandarich have any kids lol. Really Nicks with our current guys I'll take that. I thought Cannon could be our nicks but he lost some size and power from his college 358lbs. He still could maybe be a pro bowl guard. But Nicks is on another level of other top guards.

Craig, what the coaches saw in MINI-CAMP mean little to what the coaches WILL SEE in Training Camp. You seem to have this mental block about mini-camp equating with FULL PADS training camp. Anybody can LOOK good in shorts and a helmet, it's when the pads go on that the REAL analysis starts to take place.

Per the CBA, all teams can hold one mandatory veteran minicamp with three days of practice to be held on Tuesday through Thursday. Players are to report on Monday for physicals, and they cannot work Friday. Players can wear helmets, but no pads, and contact drills are not allowed. Teams can hold two-a-day practices on 2-of-3 minicamp days, but they can’t practice for more than a total of 3.5 hours, and one practice has to be a walk-through. Overall, teams can’t work players for more than 10 hours in any of the minicamp days.

No pads, no contact drills.I see that you are excited by these new players but dial it back a notch until the actual padded practices and preseason games.

I know its just minicamp but come on cut some slack here that's all the football play going on til preseason. We could say he mauled a near 300lb bouncer at the club last week and rag dolled him then jarred him backwards with so much thrust he fell through a table. He is going get at least 16 sacks this year. A near 300 lb bouncer looked peerless and you could see the look on his face that huge bouncer knew he was overwhelmed and dominated.then it took 2 more nearly 300 lb bouncers to contain our second round draft selection. He is going to be a beast as a rookie

Not cool ivan. I really liked Quinn in 2011. I felt he was the best playet in that whole draft. Carl Nicks is very realistic to trade for. Underrated/coming back from injury means bargain.

PatFanCraig said:

I know its just minicamp but come on cut some slack here that's all the football play going on til preseason. We could say he mauled a near 300lb bouncer at the club last week and rag dolled him then jarred him backwards with so much thrust he fell through a table. He is going get at least 16 sacks this year. A near 300 lb bouncer looked peerless and you could see the look on his face that huge bouncer knew he was overwhelmed and dominated.then it took 2 more nearly 300 lb bouncers to contain our second round draft selection. He is going to be a beast as a rookie

Click to expand...

I wondered if you were trolling or just batsh.t crazy, and now i know the answer is both.