Let's talk about the lines: OFFENSE

Deus Irae said:

We haven't seen a single snap even from training camp, never mind from one of the exhibition games, so we have basically nothing to evaluate the rookies on. There's not much more to say until these guys get on the field.

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PatFanCraig said:

Since were talking OLine I recently gave some thought to improving our passing,especially red zone offense. With The Broncos having the pieces in place for a possible terrorizing defense so they can fight fire with fire after their buttkucking,was their method of choice t combat teams like SF and Seattle. I'm for taking a different approach to dethrone the champs and dominant defenses sprouting up. Let's hit them at their source. Let's front an offensive line capable of sending the champ back to his stool in between rounds patching up his wounds of his own. Instead of all dishing it out like these bully explosive KO artists defenses do using both fast hands and thudding power to eventually brutalize the limited ability technician. Like these destructive defenses do to precision high scoring offenses. And we have to hear over and over how defense beats offense. Let's get to the root of the problem, they aren't directly shutting Brady/Manning/Rodgers down directly. They are destroying the line of scrimmage and brutalizing these so so OLines and exposing them as limited. Which doesn't allow the QBs and playmakers to do their thing. Denver's first instinct was to fight fire with fire and build a dominating defense of their own.

Instead let's fight fire with fire a different way. Let's put some smashmouth,powerful yet athletic Offensive lineman in front of these defensive bully's and explosive pass rushers who can breathe some fire of their own back at them. And land some haymakers of their own and handle these defensive standouts one on one. That was actually my first thought as I glanced at the super bowl. Since we weren't playing in it I didn't watch much of it. Just enough to see the hawks overwhelming passrush. All these high flying offenses who were overwhelmed by terrifying defenses never had OLines worth writing home about. Maybe a good athletic LT, but mostly Lineman who were technicians who blocked just well enough for the offense to do their magic. They play smart and make correct calls/blocks and double blocks where needed. This works against most teams til they run into a ferocious defense with more monsters than they can handle. You can't double team block more than one for the most part. Its what prevented our trophy#4 and the NFLs only 19-0 record. The offense lines technicians work well enough so that the offense can function week in and out and leave their mark in record books. On the surface fans see big plays and 45 points every week. But in the trenches the OLine is treading water just barely well enough to allow the offense to headline sports center. Then they run into that defense with 3\4 of those kind of players the OLine usually double team blocks all game and throws multiple blocking combinations at him to slow him down.

Let's focus on countering these BadA$$ defenses with an OLine that can punch them back in the mouth and contain their explosive edge rushers one on one. If we can trade for Carl Nicks or another powerful athletic interior Guard or Center I believe it will have an impact on our offense similar to Andre Johnson. We already have bookend LT/RT as good as any. Our weakness lies at RG/C that are below average.MANKINS may not be upper level player at LG but he is at least solid who would benefit from his linemates not crumbling. If we turned a glaring handicapping weakness into not just a strength but a weapon it would have a rippling effect on the whole OLine and offense. Nicks at RG crashes his whole side of the DLine and creates his own line of scrimmage. It gives Brady more time to throw in a clean pocket. Its almost unpredictable how good the offense would be. Edelman/Amendola have more time which really benefits their technician style. Gronk and Vereen are able to be consistent pass catcher's with the OLine taking care of defenses and needing no help blocking. Its rare for an OLineman to be a gamechanger but that's what Carl Nicks is. He is the closest thing to Larry Allen. He strikes fear into feared Defensive Lineman! Sean Payton raves on and on about Carl Nicks how strong and fearsome he is but how nobody has any idea how athletic he is. He can block a LB in space as quick as pancaking a NT. Payton went on how he could be a dominant LT if needed and is the most dominant player he has coached.I remember Jake Long saying how impressive he was at the combine. He gained 15 unwanted LBs between his bowl game and combine which is one reason he dropped in the draft and still ran a stunning 3cone.Payton calls him an all time draft steal. They replaced him with a pro bowl guard but still seriously missed Nicks. That's impressive, especially considering how we would jump for joy to have the guard that replaced him considering the garbage bill has out there protecting Brady

If we do pull a trade to improve and it is an OLineman I say let's do it right and get the best. Sure a solid OLineman is an upgrade which isn't saying much and helps week to week but let's also be prepared to stick it back to the menacing defenses. Because remember we are thinking super bowl here. Not 13-3 and thrashed in the playoffs again by a dominant defense.Denver's for with fire idea was improve their own defense. Let our fire with fire be fronting an OLine that scares those defenses. Let's get right to the source of dealing with menacing defenses.It will be interesting to see how these bully's react when the OLine of a precision offense is punching them back in the mouth even harder. Wouldn't sports center be so fun to watch after the afccg and Superbowl talking how the patriot OLine and offense tamed the defensive beasts. And continually point out how we outsmarted the league again by making key moves to tame the monsters and how these monster defenses never contended with a high flying offense that had the ability to punch them back in the mouth til now. And how we set a new trend and how ingenius it was to draft Fleming and Halapio and making the bold and brilliant play to bring in Carl Nicks to prepare for war with the blitzkrieg defenses. And talking bout how Denver's and Seattle's passrush was a non factor as Brady outplayed manning with our no name WRs and carved up the monster defenses on his way to a record tying 4t super bowl ring.

Sounds nice huh? But really we are the patriots let's outsmart these teams boasting their menacing passrushes and have a menacing Offensive Line waiting for them. Of course Nicks is the ultimate but I would also be for acquiring any G/C who plays with power/athleticism and can handle a feared Defensive lineman one on one. If we could acquire a prime Larry Allen for minimal price and restructure his Contract to be cap friendly who wouldn't be for that? Carl Nicks is not far from Allen AT ALL. Like I said he strikes fear in pro bowl Defensive lineman and has athleticism to play LT. Although he is respected as a top guard he is one of the NFL s most underrated players which favors us acquiring him. He has the ability of #2 overall draft pick Greg Robinson. Who wouldn't want to add him to our OLine I'm always for bringing in a difference maker who makes others around him better than a combined8/9 million on multiple washed up has beens and scrubs.

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Deus Irae said:

I'm starting to hope that Halapio gets cut early in training camp.

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supafly said:

I think things looked much different in the first meeting, when we scored 30+ on the Broncos, with a healthy Gronk.

While I certainly can't disagree with the problems with the middle/right middle of the interior line in Wendell/Connelly, I do think the lack of capable receiving options for the majority of the season played quite a part in helping to expose and even exaggerate that weakness.

I think we're all hoping to bolster that middle/right middle of the OL, as well as have some better options for Brady with more cohesion in the passing game. If the running game and RB screens/flat passes get going as well, this offense should continue to be top 3-5, and that could take us pretty far.

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Ivan said:

A really odd post. You just got done saying we have no idea what these guys have to offer and in the next breath want one of them cut before we find out.

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mgteich said:

I too would rather have Hilapio on the Practice Squad than have some of the rosters I've seen. For me, this is a more likely scenario than those where both Connolly and Wendell are cut, without signing a veteran replacement.

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mayoclinic said:

I'm guessing it is very unlikely that Halapio would make it through to the PS if cut.

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PatsWickedPissah said:

Agree NOT because I'm a typical homer over valuing our guys but mainly because he's got size and college credentials and as a rook he is a very cheap no risk signing by any club (Hello Miami!) desperate for OL help.

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PatFanCraig said:

Since were talking OLine I recently gave some thought to improving our passing,especially red zone offense. With The Broncos having the pieces in place for a possible terrorizing defense so they can fight fire with fire after their buttkucking,was their method of choice t combat teams like SF and Seattle. I'm for taking a different approach to dethrone the champs and dominant defenses sprouting up. Let's hit them at their source. Let's front an offensive line capable of sending the champ back to his stool in between rounds patching up his wounds of his own. Instead of all dishing it out like these bully explosive KO artists defenses do using both fast hands and thudding power to eventually brutalize the limited ability technician. Like these destructive defenses do to precision high scoring offenses. And we have to hear over and over how defense beats offense. Let's get to the root of the problem, they aren't directly shutting Brady/Manning/Rodgers down directly. They are destroying the line of scrimmage and brutalizing these so so OLines and exposing them as limited. Which doesn't allow the QBs and playmakers to do their thing. Denver's first instinct was to fight fire with fire and build a dominating defense of their own.

Instead let's fight fire with fire a different way. Let's put some smashmouth,powerful yet athletic Offensive lineman in front of these defensive bully's and explosive pass rushers who can breathe some fire of their own back at them. And land some haymakers of their own and handle these defensive standouts one on one. That was actually my first thought as I glanced at the super bowl. Since we weren't playing in it I didn't watch much of it. Just enough to see the hawks overwhelming passrush. All these high flying offenses who were overwhelmed by terrifying defenses never had OLines worth writing home about. Maybe a good athletic LT, but mostly Lineman who were technicians who blocked just well enough for the offense to do their magic. They play smart and make correct calls/blocks and double blocks where needed. This works against most teams til they run into a ferocious defense with more monsters than they can handle. You can't double team block more than one for the most part. Its what prevented our trophy#4 and the NFLs only 19-0 record. The offense lines technicians work well enough so that the offense can function week in and out and leave their mark in record books. On the surface fans see big plays and 45 points every week. But in the trenches the OLine is treading water just barely well enough to allow the offense to headline sports center. Then they run into that defense with 3\4 of those kind of players the OLine usually double team blocks all game and throws multiple blocking combinations at him to slow him down.

Let's focus on countering these BadA$$ defenses with an OLine that can punch them back in the mouth and contain their explosive edge rushers one on one. If we can trade for Carl Nicks or another powerful athletic interior Guard or Center I believe it will have an impact on our offense similar to Andre Johnson. We already have bookend LT/RT as good as any. Our weakness lies at RG/C that are below average.MANKINS may not be upper level player at LG but he is at least solid who would benefit from his linemates not crumbling. If we turned a glaring handicapping weakness into not just a strength but a weapon it would have a rippling effect on the whole OLine and offense. Nicks at RG crashes his whole side of the DLine and creates his own line of scrimmage. It gives Brady more time to throw in a clean pocket. Its almost unpredictable how good the offense would be. Edelman/Amendola have more time which really benefits their technician style. Gronk and Vereen are able to be consistent pass catcher's with the OLine taking care of defenses and needing no help blocking. Its rare for an OLineman to be a gamechanger but that's what Carl Nicks is. He is the closest thing to Larry Allen. He strikes fear into feared Defensive Lineman! Sean Payton raves on and on about Carl Nicks how strong and fearsome he is but how nobody has any idea how athletic he is. He can block a LB in space as quick as pancaking a NT. Payton went on how he could be a dominant LT if needed and is the most dominant player he has coached.I remember Jake Long saying how impressive he was at the combine. He gained 15 unwanted LBs between his bowl game and combine which is one reason he dropped in the draft and still ran a stunning 3cone.Payton calls him an all time draft steal. They replaced him with a pro bowl guard but still seriously missed Nicks. That's impressive, especially considering how we would jump for joy to have the guard that replaced him considering the garbage bill has out there protecting Brady

If we do pull a trade to improve and it is an OLineman I say let's do it right and get the best. Sure a solid OLineman is an upgrade which isn't saying much and helps week to week but let's also be prepared to stick it back to the menacing defenses. Because remember we are thinking super bowl here. Not 13-3 and thrashed in the playoffs again by a dominant defense.Denver's for with fire idea was improve their own defense. Let our fire with fire be fronting an OLine that scares those defenses. Let's get right to the source of dealing with menacing defenses.It will be interesting to see how these bully's react when the OLine of a precision offense is punching them back in the mouth even harder. Wouldn't sports center be so fun to watch after the afccg and Superbowl talking how the patriot OLine and offense tamed the defensive beasts. And continually point out how we outsmarted the league again by making key moves to tame the monsters and how these monster defenses never contended with a high flying offense that had the ability to punch them back in the mouth til now. And how we set a new trend and how ingenius it was to draft Fleming and Halapio and making the bold and brilliant play to bring in Carl Nicks to prepare for war with the blitzkrieg defenses. And talking bout how Denver's and Seattle's passrush was a non factor as Brady outplayed manning with our no name WRs and carved up the monster defenses on his way to a record tying 4t super bowl ring.

Sounds nice huh? But really we are the patriots let's outsmart these teams boasting their menacing passrushes and have a menacing Offensive Line waiting for them. Of course Nicks is the ultimate but I would also be for acquiring any G/C who plays with power/athleticism and can handle a feared Defensive lineman one on one. If we could acquire a prime Larry Allen for minimal price and restructure his Contract to be cap friendly who wouldn't be for that? Carl Nicks is not far from Allen AT ALL. Like I said he strikes fear in pro bowl Defensive lineman and has athleticism to play LT. Although he is respected as a top guard he is one of the NFL s most underrated players which favors us acquiring him. He has the ability of #2 overall draft pick Greg Robinson. Who wouldn't want to add him to our OLine I'm always for bringing in a difference maker who makes others around him better than a combined8/9 million on multiple washed up has beens and scrubs.

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mgteich said:

I too would rather have Hilapio on the Practice Squad than have some of the rosters I've seen. For me, this is a more likely scenario than those where both Connolly and Wendell are cut, without signing a veteran replacement. So, we now have at least 3 of us OK with this odd idea of having one of the rookies on the Practice Squad (DI, me and andy).

Don't get me wrong. I hope all 3 make the 53. But I also don't expect Belichick to cut Wendell and Connolly except if a solid veteran is brought in as a replacement (not likely).

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Ivan said:

A really odd post. You just got done saying we have no idea what these guys have to offer and in the next breath want one of them cut before we find out.

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Ivan said:

My only point was that we don't even know if he is any good yet, they should let it play out and see who wins the jobs imo. If Halapio isn't better than the others then release him and see if you want to bring him back on the PS. So far the only reason for cutting him appears to be draft position because none of us has any idea how good or bad he really is.

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