Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

ausbacker said:

I'm jumping on the Amendola train this season. It is my hope that he puts up a monster plus 100 catch plus 1000 yard season just to piss off all the haters.

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I haven't given up on him yet, that's for sure. I still think he's got obvious talent, and the kind of attitude and fire that we like to see on this team.

It sucked seeing him with that early season injury that obviously had some lingering effect on his ability last year, on top of the fact that it proved all of his doubters correct. I think Danny A could have a nice season.....as long as he can stay healthy, of course

supafly said:

I haven't given up on him yet, that's for sure. I still think he's got obvious talent, and the kind of attitude and fire that we like to see on this team.

It sucked seeing him with that early season injury that obviously had some lingering effect on his ability last year, on top of the fact that it proved all of his doubters correct. I think Danny A could have a nice season.....as long as he can stay healthy, of course

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Given his history, I doubt he's gonna get through 16 games. At the same time, I don't think that it's a certainty that he's gonna be dogged with something as bad or as nagging as a groin tear. Still, I hope for, and expect a better year from him. If it doesn't work out, then we move on. If it does, then all the better. I look forward to seeing how we use Danny A this season.

Efstratios said:

Given his history, I doubt he's gonna get through 16 games. At the same time, I don't think that it's a certainty that he's gonna be dogged with something as bad or as nagging as a groin tear. Still, I hope for, and expect a better year from him. If it doesn't work out, then we move on. If it does, then all the better. I look forward to seeing how we use Danny A this season.

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I understand and share many of your concerns. I'm not sure about how I feel regarding the odds of a player such as Amendola or Gronk (for example) continuing to see problems in random areas every single year, so it's possible that we may see a Julian Edelman kind of situation just the same. He too, was a guy who had injury concerns in more of a random nature, yet luck finally went his way last year and he appeared in all of the games.

While I understand that the odds are likely higher due to past patterns, I am not as personally concerned unless it's more of a chronic type of re-occurring injury. A guy like Aqib Talib actually worries me more than Danny Amendola--just based on the fact that it's one certain area that hasn't been able to heal properly and seems to keep getting aggravated.

You may be right that Amendola doesn't play in all 16 (hopefully 16+) games, but I do think that his scrappy nature and tougher image can quickly get overlooked due to what has developed to be a poor reputation. If he does play in 14-15+ games in his 2nd year, we may see some nice production.

supafly said:

]A guy like Aqib Talib actually worries me more than Danny Amendola--just based on the fact that it's one certain area that hasn't been able to heal properly and seems to keep getting aggravated.

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Completely agree on this. I'd also mention that a guy like Talib worries me more due to how he allegedly quit on the team during a crucial moment (In light of his "bone bruise" comment, it might actually be true). Guys like Gronk or Amendola would never do that.

Efstratios said:

Completely agree on this. I'd also mention that a guy like Talib worries me more due to how he allegedly quit on the team during a crucial moment (In light of his "bone bruise" comment, it might actually be true). Guys like Gronk or Amendola would never do that.

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You are preaching to the choir on that issue, Efstratios. I couldn't stand the sight of Talib standing on the sidelines in the first AFCCG, let alone in back to back ones...uughhh. That truly disgusted me, and I undervalued his market to the 7.5 to 8m dollar per year AAV mark due to some of those concerns. I still have some serious doubts as to how much DEN gets out of that insane contract, since I still believe that he only plays at the top of his game in a relatively small amount of games every year. We'll have to see.

supafly said:

You are preaching to the choir on that issue, Efstratios. I couldn't stand the sight of Talib standing on the sidelines in the first AFCCG, let alone in back to back ones...uughhh. That truly disgusted me, and I undervalued his market to the 7.5 to 8m dollar per year AAV mark due to some of those concerns. I still have some serious doubts as to how much DEN gets out of that insane contract, since I still believe that he only plays at the top of his game in a relatively small amount of games every year. We'll have to see.

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Way I see it, the contract that Denver gave Talib was clearly one that they wouldn't give out UNLESS it was for the purpose of robbing their biggest competitor of an asset. Elway's thought process was "I've likely got one more year with Peyton, and I gotta get rid of my biggest threat". So he offers Talib this ludicrous contract, which theoretically creates an addition for the Broncos and subtraction for the Patriots kinda thing... Similar to what he did with Welker... Of course, he failed to account for the fact that BB would IMPROVE the situation at CB.

I doubt he plays up to that contract. I think he'll have 6-7 games where he's dominant, but come playoff time, I don't think he's gonna be the guy that we saw early last season.

ausbacker said:

I'm jumping on the Amendola train this season. It is my hope that he puts up a monster plus 100 catch plus 1000 yard season just to piss off all the haters.

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In my opinion, it'd be even more amusing (and satisfying if you're pro-Amendola), if DA has a relatively quiet first 10-13 weeks, only for him to suddenly morph into this force of nature late into the year, and help spark a successful SB campaign .

chasa said:

Hey Deus, your right i have not been paying attention AT all for the last three years. I just started watching football today.. here let me do some research so i can be an expert like you

Based on points scored/points allowed
2013 offensive rank:3
2012 offensive rank:1
2011 offensive rank:3

2013 defensive rank:10
2012 defensive rank:9
2011 defensive rank:15

Yep. top 3 offense the last three years. Better add MORE offense.

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That can be misleading. No pun intended here but we laughed at Manning's regular season success and playoff failure. Our offense in playoffs has consistently stalled Including at home vs Baltimore shut out in second half. Going back to 2009 the offense has stalled. Smoke and mirrors and Brady overachieving with talent surrounding him can only go so far. In post season when all the cream puff teams our limited offensive weapons worked on all disappeared our offense has struggled. I am confident our young WRs step up. I would rather trade for another young talented WR that's underachieving due to a bad team/QB/coach/motivation like Denarius Moore or Brian Quick than Andre Johnson. However that's my preference because I love developing our own impact WRs while I acknowledge Johnson is probably the better option.

Allen gets good separation. I don't know what everybody is talking about. He has great burst in his breaks. His play speed far exceeds his 40. He was coming off injury running the 40.

You have to trust your playmakers to catch 50/50 balls because on many plays nobody is open and up is only spot not covered. If you don't trust your WRs it doesn't say much for them. I can see our short guys not trusting them . also if the WR works on his routes it includes not tipping the DB that the basil is coming and the wr makes an adjustment or leap at last second. If ball is thrown accurate and WR and QB have timing down they are actually high percent completions, just look around the league. Another reason tall athletic WRs thrive. Its not just jump balls but they have wider catching radius to haul in intermediate passes over the middle. Manning had like 9 ints and doesn't worry making those kinds of throws.

Efstratios said:

Completely agree on this. I'd also mention that a guy like Talib worries me more due to how he allegedly quit on the team during a crucial moment (In light of his "bone bruise" comment, it might actually be true). Guys like Gronk or Amendola would never do that.

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Talib covering Gronk would make for an interesting match-up (no it wouldn't ) in the AFC Championship game.

Man, I hope Gronk stays fit this year and reminds the wider NFL community who the top dog is.

Efstratios said:

Way I see it, the contract that Denver gave Talib was clearly one that they wouldn't give out UNLESS it was for the purpose of robbing their biggest competitor of an asset. Elway's thought process was "I've likely got one more year with Peyton, and I gotta get rid of my biggest threat". So he offers Talib this ludicrous contract, which theoretically creates an addition for the Broncos and subtraction for the Patriots kinda thing... Similar to what he did with Welker... Of course, he failed to account for the fact that BB would IMPROVE the situation at CB.

I doubt he plays up to that contract. I think he'll have 6-7 games where he's dominant, but come playoff time, I don't think he's gonna be the guy that we saw early last season.

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Even if we never signed Revis this off season, I believe Browner and Talib could be a wash. Talib, when healthy is better, but we all know he will never stay healthy. Both matchup better with bigger receivers, and struggle with shorter, shiftier ones.

The only downside to Browner is the 4 game suspension. And if I can be honest, I do have concerns about how much of his success in Seattle had to do with PED's, but if he brings here what he brought in Seattle, that would be awesome, especially considering Revis will be on the other side!

AzorianPats said:

Even if we never signed Revis this off season, I believe Browner and Talib could be a wash. Talib, when healthy is better, but we all know he will never stay healthy. Both matchup better with bigger receivers, and struggle with shorter, shiftier ones.

The only downside to Browner is the 4 game suspension. And if I can be honest, I do have concerns about how much of his success in Seattle had to do with PED's, but if he brings here what he brought in Seattle, that would be awesome, especially considering Revis will be on the other side!

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I think that it is "a bit of a stretch" to say Browner and Talib are a wash. At least based on the last few seasons I don't see a way to put the two on the same level.

All that being said, the NFL is about what can you do for me now so let see how both of them fare this season.

luuked said:

I think that it is "a bit of a stretch" to say Browner and Talib are a wash. At least based on the last few seasons I don't see a way to put the two on the same level.

All that being said, the NFL is about what can you do for me now so let see how both of them fare this season.

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Why not? Most of Talib's success came when he was here. And that was only for a season and a half. His resume before Foxboro was nothing special.

PatFanCraig said:

That can be misleading. No pun intended here but we laughed at Manning's regular season success and playoff failure. Our offense in playoffs has consistently stalled Including at home vs Baltimore shut out in second half. Going back to 2009 the offense has stalled. Smoke and mirrors and Brady overachieving with talent surrounding him can only go so far. In post season when all the cream puff teams our limited offensive weapons worked on all disappeared our offense has struggled. I am confident our young WRs step up. I would rather trade for another young talented WR that's underachieving due to a bad team/QB/coach/motivation like Denarius Moore or Brian Quick than Andre Johnson. However that's my preference because I love developing our own impact WRs while I acknowledge Johnson is probably the better option.

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You know when else our offense stalled? when we had Moss and Welker. Moss was a better Receiver then, than Andre Johnson is now.

You know what would help our offense immensely? Not having to put up 25-30 points to win a game. Take some of the pressure off the offense, give them some shorter fracking fields to work with(average starting position vs the broncos was the 20 yard line), get some turn overs, and let Brady do his thing, the thing hes been doing since he became the starter, the thing he did that brought titles in, HINT it wasn't throwing a bunch of "50/50 jump balls" that only a big receiver can make.

chasa said:

You know when else our offense stalled? when we had Moss and Welker. Moss was a better Receiver then, than Andre Johnson is now.

You know what would help our offense immensely? Not having to put up 25-30 points to win a game. Take some of the pressure off the offense, give them some shorter fracking fields to work with(average starting position vs the broncos was the 20 yard line), get some turn overs, and let Brady do his thing, the thing hes been doing since he became the starter, the thing he did that brought titles in, HINT it wasn't throwing a bunch of "50/50 jump balls" that only a big receiver can make.

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Absolutely agree with the top defense being a more of a need and gives a better chance of winning a championship the last team who won a Superbowl with a predominately offensive strength and a weaker defense was the Colts.
Now of course the defense was going against Rex Grossman so I don't think we can count that.
Now when it comes to the get the ball on short drives not throwing 50 50 jump balls.
If you are facing a offensive juggernaut like the Broncos or in the NFC the Saints the Lions or Packers Bears or Eagles they will get their points regardless the Defense 9 out of 10 times.
I feel much Better with countering a Calvin Johnson or Brandon Marshall with Andre Johnson and Aaron Dobson combo.
Their are games when throwing a 50 50 ball and Completing it is the difference of winning and losing.
Continuing a drive or turning the ball over.
Again If the compensation and money is feasible and doesn't hold us back then you make the move.

Giving up a high draft pick for an aging WR with a huge cap hit is bad for business.

A better defense is the answer and they appear to have the pieces in place to have a much better defense than they have had in a good while. There is a long history of great offenses running into trouble against great defenses in the play-offs and Super Bowl and it isn't limited to the Patriots and adding another WR is generally not the cure for it.

I expect the Patriots offense and defense to both be top 5 in points scored and fewest allowed, and imo that's what really matters. If they are scoring over 25 and allowing under 18 they should have a great season and the play-offs will simply come down to who is healthy and who isn't.

PatFanCraig said:

Allen gets good separation. I don't know what everybody is talking about. He has great burst in his breaks. His play speed far exceeds his 40. He was coming off injury running the 40.

You have to trust your playmakers to catch 50/50 balls because on many plays nobody is open and up is only spot not covered. If you don't trust your WRs it doesn't say much for them. I can see our short guys not trusting them . also if the WR works on his routes it includes not tipping the DB that the basil is coming and the wr makes an adjustment or leap at last second. If ball is thrown accurate and WR and QB have timing down they are actually high percent completions, just look around the league. Another reason tall athletic WRs thrive. Its not just jump balls but they have wider catching radius to haul in intermediate passes over the middle. Manning had like 9 ints and doesn't worry making those kinds of throws.

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For some reason i trust Tom Brady's judgement on who to throw to and when to throw to them more than i do your view of just throw it up there and hope for the best. Brady doesn't throw jump balls, he throws to receivers who are open or breaking open, and that's why Belichick trusts him to run his offense.

Regarding Bethel Johnson, he was one of the better failed WR picks by BB. He ran back KOs well, even for TDs and he scored a game critical long TD in the cold playoff game vs Tenn that got us to the SB and our 2nd ring. The Chads at WR were the really bad decisions.

chasa said:

You know when else our offense stalled? when we had Moss and Welker. Moss was a better Receiver then, than Andre Johnson is now.

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Stop with the silliness.

In 2007, the Patriots played one game.....

ONE

where they scored fewer than 20 points. They had faced the same team that held them to that season low, just a few weeks earlier, and they'd hung 38 on them. In the rematch, yes, the offense let the team down, but there were reasons for that. Brady could barely move because of his ankle, which meant that QB who was considered the best pocket mover in the NFL was relegated to being a statue. In that same rematch, the team's starting RG was lost early on, and his replacement was already banged up. In that same rematch, the team's TEs were all hurt, meaning they weren't much help. In that same rematch, the CB2 was playing with a serious groin injury.

Despite all that, the Patriots had the lead late in the 4th, before the team's heralded CB1 wandered off from his assignment, and the team's heralded S1 failed to jar a ball loose from a lousy player on a catch with a helmet..

No team in NFL history has ever gone 19-0 in a season, so *****ing about the 2007 offense as being something not to strive for again, because the bad game and loss came at the end, is just stupid. It's the product of emotion instead of reason.