What's the move you want to see before the season starts?

Hooman was a STARTER at the end of last season. He IS the TE #2 on the depth chart. He is well versed in the offense and familiar with Brady.Bill Belechick is NOT going to trade a 2nd round draft pick for a third string roster cut. Why this seems so hard to understand I just cannot fathom. In all likelihood,Housler will be a cut, at most a 7th round pick, perhaps if a team has 2 sevens with one to burn. Otherwise,he gets an invite to camp for NOTHING but the $ cost of a free agent signing.

The Giants need a TE with the departure of Ballard. SB Nation has a blurb about Housler and a team with an APPARENT NEED.

http://www.bigblueview.com/2014/5/2...umors-rob-housler-ny-giants-arizona-cardinals


Would the Giants trade for Housler? Maybe, but I can't see them offering much more than a conditional pick, probably a seventh-rounder based on whether or not Housler actually makes the 53-man roster.

More likely than surrendering a pick for a guy like this I would think the Giants will wait and assess what they have as the offseason, preseason and training camp proceed. If they think they need additional help my expectation would be that they wait and see what falls from the NFL roster-cut tree as we get closer to the season.

but yeah, trade a 2nd round pick for him before the Giants beat us to it, so he can sit on the bench. Makes all the sense in the world.

BB has often traded a 4th or 5th for a vet player he feels fills a needed hole in the roster. His trade for the 2003 season to shore up a porous run D resulted in a ring.

patfanken said:

People have now officially gone completely insane with this off season. A first ballot HOFer like Randy Moss was gotten for a 4th rounder. A more than solid veteran like Anquain Boldin could be had for a 6th round pick. Even a proven vet like Stevie Johnson was available for a "conditional" 4th round pick

Yet the mental giants who have never seen a WR or TE who WASN'T better than anyone we have on the roster, seem more than willing to part with a 2nd or 3rd round pick for a TE who seems to have managed 3 years in the league still can't seem to master the fundamentals of basic blocking. A guy you would hope to be a key element of your GL offense yet who has managed just ONE TD in 3 years.

He's a guy SOOOOOO talented that after seeing him start for most of the last 2 years, he has been passed on the Cardinal depth cart by a solid JAG FA, a rookie who hasn't played a snap in the NFL, and a guy (Ballard) who is lucky to walking without a limp. Yeah, THAT sounds like a guy I want to to spend a 2nd day draft pick on.

Just so I make sure I got this straight. Our guys suck. Everyone else is much better and easily worth whatever it takes to get them here. The fact that we already have not only the best TE ALREADY on the roster, bu he's the most impactful non-QB offensive player in the league; is NOT a factor. That's because the Geniuses on this board have already decreed that its a given that injuries will keep him from being a factor. Its like they have a direct pipeline from God.RIght?!

Hey I'm all for increasing the competition level at the TE group this TC. Go sign Finley, Keller, or Gonselez. Go sign Houstler after he's cut for all I care. The more the merrier. But BB should lose his GM card if he ever gave up please anything other than a 2016 7th round pick for him. Just listen to what you write before you keep writing the same drivel over and over. Because basically this is what you are saying.

" The Cardnals have a guy who has been starting for them for 2 years. They like him SOOOOO much that they signed a FA to replace him, drafted a 2nd round pick to replace him, and many think a slow ponderous gimp from last season can replace him on the roster. This SAME guy the Cards have gone out of their way to replace is the same one who it has been suggested we spend 2nd day draft capital to acquire."

Yeah, that makes just SOOOOOOOO much sense.

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Ken, you seem increasingly intolerant of any point of view that's not your own. Not sure why.

BB traded a 3rd and a 5th for 31 year old Derrick Burgess in 2009, and traded 5th round picks and more for Albet Haynesworth and Chad Johnson. All were terrible trades, but you don't always get Randy Moss or Aqib Talib for a 4th round pick. I can understand you disagreeing, but referring to people with a different point of view disparagingly as "mental giants" and saying that "BB should lose his GM card if he ever gave up anything other than a 2016 7th round pick" for a guy who hasn't been completely unproductive and has a lot of talent is rather condescending.

mayoclinic said:

you seem increasingly intolerant of any point of view that's not your own. Not sure why.

BB traded a 3rd and a 5th for 31 year old Derrick Burgess in 2009, and traded 5th round picks and more for Albet Haynesworth and Chad Johnson. All were terrible trades, but you don't always get Randy Moss or Aqib Talib for a 4th round pick. .

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It's just what we do as we get older, Grasshopper. Don't deprive us of our few remaining pleasures.

Joker said:

Stop the insanity. Use the ignore feature.

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I did not think you were talking about me at first. Then in your response to Mayo you said – Already the board "expert" has posted four posts in a row trumpeting this JAG so I guess it must be almost certain. Like Amendola being cut in March.

I was the poster who posted 4 straight times about Housler. So clearly, it was directed at me.

I do not like Amendola very much, but why I am caught up in the discussions is I find it to be fascinating the defensive unit he has on this board. I try to understand the motivation behind people believing a player who entered the NFL in 2008 is going to make the leap in 2014. Ian asked me to layoff the Amendola subject, and he did so politely and logically, so I have, if you or anyone else had asked the same way I would have done it sooner, but when you berate me, the logic in what you are trying to convey is lost and I just become defensive.

I do not see how my approach to Amendola and his fan club is much different from your approach to Tim Tebow and his fan club, you went on, and on with those discussions the same way I get caught up in the Amendola discussions.

Profanity laced replies; there you go making stuff up again, I said Sticky ****, nothing else, no profanity, and for the record, I apologized to Sticky in PM because I was out of line and I recognize that.

I do not hate you Joker, I actually used to like you, then you went on this freaking crusade against me and when I attempted to talk to you in PM, you could not even take the time to try to sort out our differences. I never claim to be the perfect poster, I get caught up in dumb discussions and should let things go, I know that, I am excessive in my posting at times, but I have made an effort to correct some of those things, and I do not have any malice intent to you or anyone on this board. So as I said I do not hate you, I do not even know you, I hate the crusade you have against me and I would really like to get passed it and try and find some even ground but that is going to require you wanting the same thing. I am not going to take issue with you saying something about my grammar, it is poor at times, I am not a writer that is for sure.

Back to the subject of football, I like Housler; I agree that the team would not give up a high pick for him but if we could swing the Mallett trade or a mid-round pick. I think he could be a 40 catch, 500 yard, 3-4 touchdown player for us, which with a healthy Gronkowski and the developing WR group would be more than enough. I do not expect him to be Hernandez on the field, but I do not think we need that with Dobson, Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, and Boyce.

I never said trade a second. If he is that good I said they may ask for a second in fear he breaks out and they get the raw end if they trade him for a fourth. Why would we want a guy if he was as worthless as that suggests. I don't even want to discuss Housler really. I would much rather have Jermichael. He is a proven pass catcher and blocker. He lays it all on the line and is a very intense player. He runs routes precisely as he can and takes pride. He Also takes it personal being physical and winning 50/50 balls. At 6'5 250 and 35" arms he brings talent and an attitude we need against Seattle in the Super Bowl.

Let me clarify something. Yes its super bowl or failure. We have the best qb ever. And we should expect to win the championship. Now when Grapps takes over his first year if he plays well and throws 4000 yards 25 TDs and we make afccg his first season starting I would be very happy and excited. But Brady presents a rare opportunity and Luxury other teams don't have including SF Seattle and even Denver or Green Bay. Yep them to! No qb has been able to carve up the NFL like Brady with handicapped WRs. If we were to trade Brady, that team would Expect to win a championship without any afterthoughts.

I suspect that your thinking that Amendola and Tebow are somehow similar in quality is an illustration why many have such problems with some of your analysis.

Brady6 said:

I do not see how my approach to Amendola and his fan club is much different from your approach to Tim Tebow and his fan club, you went on, and on with those discussions the same way I get caught up in the Amendola discussions.

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Deus Irae said:

What the hell are you talking about? Mayo's a "standout" lb who's bigger than 230-240.

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Mayo's 250 and so is Jamie Collins. Apparently BB didn't get the memo about drafting 230 lb linebackers for his system. When is the last time they started a LB who was under 240, except for injury?

I think the list of starters for any reason under that weight is small and includes the likes of Larry Izzo (EDIT, probably not, he did get snaps, tackles and an INT though.

The point is, BB hasn't ever used small LBs as starters given a choice. He's usually had a backup role player for coverage, like Don Davis.

PatFanCraig said:

I never said trade a second. If he is that good I said they may ask for a second in fear he breaks out and they get the raw end if they trade him for a fourth. Why would we want a guy if he was as worthless as that suggests. I don't even want to discuss Housler really. I would much rather have Jermichael. He is a proven pass catcher and blocker. He lays it all on the line and is a very intense player. He runs routes precisely as he can and takes pride. He Also takes it personal being physical and winning 50/50 balls. At 6'5 250 and 35" arms he brings talent and an attitude we need against Seattle in the Super Bowl.

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so, you understand I was referring to your posts earlier in the thread. I thought you would. You are an intelligent person with a ton of enthusiasm. I don't share your views on either player because they seem out of the realm for a Pats team that already has two veterans at TE.BB will cut Hooman to add Finley when the team already HAS Rob Gronkowski? Time will tell Craig, and I hope you're right and the Pats win the Super bowl THIS year, but if they don't I hope you stick around for the 2015 season as disappointing as 2014 might be.

Cut or trade Connolly before TC. If he gets hurts in TC and has to go on IR, the Pats will be on the hook for his 3 million salary.

Mayo was 240 when drafted. He also isn't the impact player Bowman/Willis are. Since he added weight his coverage skills have declined. Collins is nearly 6'4 at 250. Besides I would rather have Collins blitzing with his length and explosiveness. Mayo is closer to the play size of the forementioned impact players. This isn't about Mayo its about Hightower and his vast limitations due to lack of burst/agility. I listed impact LBs and how none are near 270. How in today's NFL burst/explosion/agility is a must in an increasingly pass happy league that's getting faster and more and more explosive everywhere.

camp is going to very revealing this season as far as the O line is concerned.I agree Miguel, a cut is looming between Wendell and Connolly. Not sure which one has the more expensive cap hit.

mayoclinic said:

Ken, you seem increasingly intolerant of any point of view that's not your own. Not sure why.

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Oh that's just Bull Spit, Mayo. There are no rules which state you have to ignore utter stupidity simply for the sake of not offending..... the overly sensitive

I might have been mildly hyperbolic in my rant, but I didn't neglect any of the the pertinent facts in this case. Nor was I intolerant on anyone's' position. Nothing I said was untrue. The Cardinals DID make 3 moves SPECIFICALLY designed to move on from Housler. My God Mayo they went out and signed the "immortal" John Carlson to be his replacehment. They used a top 50 draft pick to be his replacement. They kept a guy on the roster roster who hasn't been healthy since 2011.

He's a TE who flat out can't block. He supposedly has all these freakish combine times that sound sexy, but has only ONE TD catch in his career and averages only 10ypc. Not exactly standout stats for a guy you want as the "flex" TE Certainly not what would cause you to relinquish a 2nd day pick.

The Trades you mentioned DID end up being horrible, even though they were widely hailed at the time. And even though they all failed miserably, they were all solid examples of reasonable risks that simply didn't work out. The proposed trade of Rob Housley for a 2nd or 3rd round pick(or a 4th or 5th or 6th) doesn't even come close to that level of risk/reward.

And as for me being "condescending" Moi????? Sh!T Mayo I was going for a lot stronger than that in my rant. . I have reached my off season limit of the myriad of posts from those who think all problems are solved by adding Receivers. Somehow the fact that the VAST majority of great WR's never see the playoffs doesn't seem to register with the resident geniuses. If you draft/sign/trade for a #1 WR all your troubles will be over and life will go on happily ever after.

BTW- since you have seemed to set yourself up as the moral arbiter of what is the correct level or sarcasm or disdain for a position, please be careful. That first step is a long way down from that "high horse". Besides we generally agree on so much. And who knows. You could end up being right about Hightower.

mgteich said:

I suspect that your thinking that Amendola and Tebow are somehow similar in quality is an illustration why many have such problems with some of your analysis.

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Your inability to interpret posts properly is illustrated here. I did not compare Amendola and Tebow as players; I compared their fan clubs reaction to criticism of the player to each other. Two very different things.

RayClay said:

Mayo's 250 and so is Jamie Collins. Apparently BB didn't get the memo about drafting 230 lb linebackers for his system. When is the last time they started a LB who was under 240, except for injury?

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As far as I can tell, the lightest full-season starter for the Patriots under Belichick was Gary Guyton at 245. Only Don Davis has started any games under 240.

patfanken said:

People have now officially gone completely insane with this off season. A first ballot HOFer like Randy Moss was gotten for a 4th rounder. A more than solid veteran like Anquain Boldin could be had for a 6th round pick. Even a proven vet like Stevie Johnson was available for a "conditional" 4th round pick

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You are not considering the salary cap implications for these players. In all 3 cases you named here (Moss, Boldin, and Johnson) the team that traded them did so to unload a big contract.

patfanken said:

Yet the mental giants who have never seen a WR or TE who WASN'T better than anyone we have on the roster, seem more than willing to part with a 2nd or 3rd round pick for a TE who seems to have managed 3 years in the league still can't seem to master the fundamentals of basic blocking. A guy you would hope to be a key element of your GL offense yet who has managed just ONE TD in 3 years.

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Entering 2013 Housler was more productive than Jordan Cameron was, and they both have similar shortcomings as blockers. I can tell you without question I would take Housler over Tavon Wilson, Jake Bequette, Ras-I Dowling, Jermaine Cunningham, Taylor Price, Pat Chung, Ron Brace, Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, and Tyrone McKenzie who were second or third round selections in the past 5 drafts.

patfanken said:

He's a guy SOOOOOO talented that after seeing him start for most of the last 2 years, he has been passed on the Cardinal depth cart by a solid JAG FA, a rookie who hasn't played a snap in the NFL, and a guy (Ballard) who is lucky to walking without a limp. Yeah, THAT sounds like a guy I want to to spend a 2nd day draft pick on.

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Umm what are you talking about, Housler caught 39 passes (13 games) in 2013, and 45 passes (15 games) in 2012, he has not been passed over by anyone. The Cardinals used Ballard as a blocker because Housler is not a Y-TE he is more of a Joker-TE.

patfanken said:

Just so I make sure I got this straight. Our guys suck. Everyone else is much better and easily worth whatever it takes to get them here. The fact that we already have not only the best TE ALREADY on the roster, bu he's the most impactful non-QB offensive player in the league; is NOT a factor. That's because the Geniuses on this board have already decreed that its a given that injuries will keep him from being a factor. Its like they have a direct pipeline from God.RIght?! :rolleyes

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Who are our guys? Outside of Gronkowski we have practice squad players at the position. Housler had more catches last season in 13 games than Hoomanawanui has in his career, DJ Williams has 9 catches in his career, and Watson and Jones are UDFAs.

I think what you need to realize is that we have a significant need for depth at the TE position, so we may have to pay a premium if we want to fill it. I do not think anybody is advocating trading a second for Housler but if you would not give up a fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh for a player that fills a need and has proven that he can get open and catch the football at the NFL level I disagree with you completely.

Joker said:

so, you understand I was referring to your posts earlier in the thread. I thought you would. You are an intelligent person with a ton of enthusiasm. I don't share your views on either player because they seem out of the realm for a Pats team that already has two veterans at TE.BB will cut Hooman to add Finley when the team already HAS Rob Gronkowski? Time will tell Craig, and I hope you're right and the Pats win the Super bowl THIS year, but if they don't I hope you stick around for the 2015 season as disappointing as 2014 might be.

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There are lots of knowledgeable people here. We all have different opinions. Of course I want to win in 2015 as well lol. I want to add Finley not just to win but squash every team along the way. I think we could use him to reboot our successful 2TE set. With Dobson/Thompkins/Boyce we have a deep threat offense to compliment the 2TE sets. Also Jermichael brings attitude we will need to punch the legion of boom back in their mouth in the Superbowl. That's also why I like Halapio to play center so we can have a center who can punch a NT and drive block like no other center. Reports from camp say he was very powerful and more impressive than hoped for. I mean what would you expect. The guy played with a torn pec. Many scouts recommended converting him to center. Then power RTs Fleming/Cannon can compete for RG. That would make a powerful interior triad. Mankins can set the tone and train them to play nast and dirty when they have to. But reports from camp say Halapio already knows how to play nasty. So there is method to my madness. Right or wrong I wasn't to score lots of points with precision/finesse/explosiveness and attitude while the OLine and TEs setting a physical nasty tone. I like Vereen as a serious weapon. If he can stay healthy as a feature back. I like Dobsons size And explosiveness and I really like Kenbrell and his quickness and burst on cuts and out of breaks. Most fans don't realize how long and hard he is working every day to get faster/more fluid/more explosive and unmatched endurance. He wants to match or exceed his cousins production very badly. He is the modern day Jerry Rice. I respect him, he really appreciates the opportunity he has. He is doing some very modern training routines 8-12 hours a day

I would like to trade for a young talented WR who is underachieving on a bad team/coach/QB as much as Johnson.Dobson/Kenbrell/Boyce/Denarius or Quick gives us the most formidable group of young WR talent in the NFL. I agree if we could get Johnson it would be better than another prospect but I just get really excited the idea of developing our own 1200 yard WRs that nobody else saw coming. I want Brady to outproduce Manning with unknown WRs racking up 100 yard games as fast as his established playmakers. Its also very Exciting the young explosive pass rush talent that either one can emerge as double digit sack artists. We have Collins/Buchanan/Easley/Moore that can step up to compliment Jones. On offense though Jermichael Finley reboots our 2TE sets,adds attitude and completes the offenses dominance.

Joker said:

camp is going to very revealing this season as far as the O line is concerned.I agree Miguel, a cut is looming between Wendell and Connolly. Not sure which one has the more expensive cap hit.

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From Miguel's page (if we can trust him & me keeping the columns straight)
Cut Connolly saves cap $2.5 million
Cutting Wendell only saves $705K and leaves 2015 with a dead cap hit of $425K

PatsWickedPissah said:

From Miguel's page (if we can trust him & me keeping the columns straight)
Cut Connolly saves cap $2.5 million
Cutting Wendell only saves $705K and leaves 2015 with a dead cap hit of $425K

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Realistically they are both likely to end up as shadow roster candidates even if they were cut, Connolly is a 33-year-old OG, and Wendell received about as much interest this offseason as Aaron Hernandez on the UFA market.

I would not be surprised to see Belichick move on from both of them and run with this as a depth chart.

LT – Solder, Vollmer, Cannon
LG – Mankins, Halapio, Kline
OC – Stork, Mankins
RG – Cannon, Halapio, Kline
RT – Vollmer, Cannon, Fleming

The concern would be OC not having a true backup but if they can retain Braxton Cave on the practice squad, it could give them the confidence to move on.

Craig, bringing Finley in means you have to subtract an offensive player somewhere else. Who is THAT player? Hooman? That would be hard to fathom considering the high praise he gets from the staff and the fact that he was just signed again this March. BB is going to cut Hooman and sign a player for significantly more money that has zero understanding of the offense? Not likely.

OK, then it has to be a WR then. You are effusive about all three young WR's, so who goes, LaFell? You don't even mention the Patriots leading receiver, Edelman or Amendola , why is THAT? They aren't dynamic enough?

Finley had controversial blowups in 2012 with Rodgers that are well documented.You think for even a millisecond he could come here and pull that kind of crap? Look, the guy can still play somewhere in this league but the Pats are about the worst fit when all the factors, scheme, price, need etc. are considered.

The one mitigating element that could come into play is injury. If Gronk can't go I guess Finley would be an option, Otherwise, I just don't see the fit.