Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

Brady_to_Moss said:

I have a source in the jets front office. He told me Tuesdays are Hawaiian shirt days and Thursdays are suck days

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that the suck days were on sundays?

what people are forgeting is can he learn the playbook as quick as moss did? on all accounts of the people who knew moss they called him one of the smartest football minds.

The Patriots have 52 players signed thru 16.
14 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork, Arrington, Ninkovich, Edelman, Browner,Vollmer, Lafell, Easley, Collins) have average cap value of over 1M for the 2014/2015/2016 seasons
12 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork, Arrington, Ninkovich, Edelman, Browner,Vollmer, Lafell) have an average cap value of over 3 million
9 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork, Arrington, Vollmer, Browner) have an average cap value of over 4 Million
6 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork) have an average cap value of over 5 million
5 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Wilfork) have an average cap value of over 6 million
3 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins) have an average cap value of over 9M
Brady has an average cap value of $13.933,333

Andre Johnson is due in new money an average of $11.5 million in 2014/2015/2016.

Pats have 19 players who will become free agents after this year, 22 after 2015. Some of the upcoming free agents (Ridley, Vereen, McCourty, Revis, Gostkowski, Solder) are key contributors.Plus, the Patriots have to decide by May 3, 2015 if they want to pick up the 2016 options (7 to 9 million) for Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower.

Summary, only if you believe in Felger's simplistic "cap is crap" nonsense should anyone believe that acquiring Andre Johnson as long as he expects to receive $34.5 million in new money over a 3-year period will not affect the Patriots' ability to retain all of their young talent.

Which Miguel brings up a interesting point of discussion, there will be a lot of tough decisions over the next 2 seasons.
Luckily there is no one I trust more to make these decisions than BB and co.
Tough decisions loom for Mankins, Ninkovich, Wilfork, Gronkowski, Mccourty, Revis, and yes even Brady.
I have already accepted the fact BB isn't afraid to completely revamp the running game on the fly.
Which doesn't bode well for Ridley, Vareen to earn big paydays from the Pats.
White,Houston, and Finch will be given every opportunity to show they have a future In the Patriots backfield.
That being said if either of Ridley or Vareen is retained my money would be on Vareen for his skill set to the passing game.
That being said I fully expect for a big season for Ridley pricing him out of the Patriots perceived value and watching a team like Arizona snatching him up.

ChrisR2223 said:

Which Miguel brings up a interesting point of discussion, there will be a lot of tough decisions over the next 2 seasons.
Luckily there is no one I trust more to make these decisions than BB and co.
Tough decisions loom for Mankins, Ninkovich, Wilfork, Gronkowski, Mccourty, Revis, and yes even Brady.
I have already accepted the fact BB isn't afraid to completely revamp the running game on the fly.
Which doesn't bode well for Ridley, Vareen to earn big paydays from the Pats.
White,Houston, and Finch will be given every opportunity to show they have a future In the Patriots backfield.
That being said if either of Ridley or Vareen is retained my money would be on Vareen for his skill set to the passing game.
That being said I fully expect for a big season for Ridley pricing him out of the Patriots perceived value and watching a team like Arizona snatching him up.

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That's why you go all in now and get AJ

MossWelkowski said:

That's why you go all in now and get AJ

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How does that evidence lead to that conclusion?

MossWelkowski said:

That's why you go all in now and get AJ

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Disagree
Randy Moss @ Pats > AJ
What did we win?
Rather have a strong D rather than relying on Brady playing lights out through the playoffs

Miguel said:

The Patriots have 52 players signed thru 16.
14 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork, Arrington, Ninkovich, Edelman, Browner,Vollmer, Lafell, Easley, Collins) have average cap value of over 1M for the 2014/2015/2016 seasons
12 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork, Arrington, Ninkovich, Edelman, Browner,Vollmer, Lafell) have an average cap value of over 3 million
9 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork, Arrington, Vollmer, Browner) have an average cap value of over 4 Million
6 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Amendola, Wilfork) have an average cap value of over 5 million
5 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins, Gronkowski, Wilfork) have an average cap value of over 6 million
3 (Brady, Mayo, Mankins) have an average cap value of over 9M
Brady has an average cap value of $13.933,333

Andre Johnson is due in new money an average of $11.5 million in 2014/2015/2016.

Pats have 19 players who will become free agents after this year, 22 after 2015. Some of the upcoming free agents (Ridley, Vereen, McCourty, Revis, Gostkowski, Solder) are key contributors.Plus, the Patriots have to decide by May 3, 2015 if they want to pick up the 2016 options (7 to 9 million) for Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower.

Summary, only if you believe in Felger's simplistic "cap is crap" nonsense should anyone believe that acquiring Andre Johnson as long as he expects to receive $34.5 million in new money over a 3-year period will not affect the Patriots' ability to retain all of their young talent.

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you really needed to add a *mic drop* at the end of this.

MossWelkowski said:

That's why you go all in now and get AJ

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because why build a good team, when you can build the raiders.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Disagree
Randy Moss @ Pats > AJ
What did we win?
Rather have a strong D rather than relying on Brady playing lights out through the playoffs

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Moss was a 1 trick pony and a loafer.

Winning a championship wasn't that important no him.

chasa said:

because why build a good team, when you can build the raiders.

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Yeah, thank God he didn't go after that Revis guy.

Deus Irae said:

Yeah, thank God he didn't go after that Revis guy.

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are you really equating replacing FA Talib with FA Revis to sending draft picks, potentially players, for a wide receiver to add to one of the top 3 offenses in the league?

because that is what it sounds like

chasa said:

are you really equating replacing FA Talib with FA Revis to sending draft picks, potentially players, for a wide receiver to add to one of the top 3 offenses in the league?

because that is what it sounds like

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I'm looking at $16m a year for a top player and comparing it to a little more than $10m a year for a top player. Your earlier post made basically no sense, given the way the Patriots spent money this offseason.

And tossing in a mid-round draft pick, or a backup QB with one foot already out the door, doesn't really change the equation all that much.

Miguel post also illustrates that we have been through a complete rebuild once again that didn't bring another trophy. That means that all that talk about long term, future, putting the best team out there in any given season etc it's ok but sometimes if you wanna win you gotta pull the trigger even if that means being in a bad position for the future.

There is a Brady window, of course there is, and it's getting closer to an end. BB may have realized that for this season and is going more non conservative. Bringing AJ makes a lot of sense, for the right money of course which is not a lowball offer neither his current numbers.

varjao said:

if you wanna win you gotta pull the trigger even if that means being in a bad position for the future.

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Sometimes this is true, but if one year of Johnson loses us a couple of our most important players, then the trade might do more damage than good.

If the Patriots gave up a high pick for a good/great vet talent, I can buy into it. You never know what that pick will turn into anyway. But to lose core players that you will need to win a championship only makes things worse.

As Miguel states "Summary, only if you believe in Felger's simplistic "cap is crap" nonsense should anyone believe that acquiring Andre Johnson as long as he expects to receive $34.5 million in new money over a 3-year period will not affect the Patriots' ability to retain all of their young talent."

It's easy to get a few million for AJ by moves like cutting Amendola and eventually Arrington. But finding an average of over $11m per season eats up the $5+ million anticipated cap growth and makes retaining a Revis and our young starters up for renewal deeply problematical. I don't see a numbers based scenario for signing AJ that addresses which key contributors we say goodbye to. And even then, somebody else with non-zero cap cost has to assume their missing starting position.

I do not buy that signing AJ = a ring, as dog faker* Randy Moss, a more dominant youthful talent in his prime failed to do so with a Tom Brady in his absolute prime.


* as a casual fan not erudite in deep football terminology, I still don't understand what this is

What I would do with my draft capital & cap space to raise the odds of a ring is back up our most vulnerable position jeopardizing playoff success (besides Brady) and that is, if possible, trade for a serviceable TE backup to Gronk that would give us a better option than Hooman as an outlet for Brady. It's well addressed in other threads. It's the best option to improve our odds for post season success.

Deus Irae said:

I'm looking at $16m a year for a top player and comparing it to a little more than $10m a year for a top player. Your earlier post made basically no sense, given the way the Patriots spent money this offseason.

And tossing in a mid-round draft pick, or a backup QB with one foot already out the door, doesn't really change the equation all that much.

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A top player we need vs a top player we dont.

Top 3 offense, Bottom half defense.

We don't need more offense.
we do need more defense.

This is actual football
this is not fantasy football

xlcjw72 said:

that the suck days were on sundays?

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Well that's a given

I would view the addition of AJ as a 1 year proposal only done to help catapult the Pats into winning another Lombardi before Brady hangs em up. The players and sal cap $ given up for such a 1 year rental needs to be something the Pats braintrust is comfortable with obviously. Oh, and the Texans have to be willing as well.

If the relinquished players include players who are likely to be leaving next year and who aren't instrumental pieces of this years puzzle, then I'm more than fine including them. At that point it's all about the benjamins. I have no idea what flexibility the Pats have here.