Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

We already have Revis. We're talking about adding Andre Johnson for THIS year. 2015 is another matter entirely and as I said, if he's willing to restructure and if his remaining money is nonguaranteed, we can cut him without significant cap consequence. I don't really see a downside.

chasa said:

Take all that Andre johnson money, and give it to Revis if he plays like hes still a top corner.

Click to expand...

chasa said:

unless andre johnson is taking a huge paycut hes not the solution to the patriots problems.

Click to expand...

Did you see our red zone stats last year? Do you not think that AJ would convert a good number of red zone opportunities to TDs?

betterthanthealternative said:

I disagree. The odds on him becoming a good franchise QB are 1 in 20 at best. There are only a dozen of them in the league in any given decade, and only four or five in any given year. The odds on him becoming a back up, or washing out of the league in two or three years, are much higher.

Click to expand...

Much more realistic assessment than those mystically convinced he'll not only be a starter, but an above average NFL starter. I rooted for Cassel and Hoyer to succeed here & away, and as a homah I'll root for Garrapolo too, but like with The Hammer we won't have a clue for years unless something horrific happens or he gets canned like the unmemorable O'Connell. JAG's reported excellent work habits should preclude the latter.

I love having a rooting interest in ex-Patriot players like Hoyer & Cassel.

Mack Herron said:

Did you see our red zone stats last year? Do you not think that AJ would convert a good number of red zone opportunities to TDs?

Click to expand...

do you think converting those Td's throughout the year would have impacted peyton manning basically being able to do whatever he wanted once Talib got a booboo?

PatsWickedPissah said:

Much more realistic assessment than those mystically convinced he'll not only be a starter, but an above average NFL starter. I rooted for Cassel and Hoyer to succeed here & away, and as a homah I'll root for Garrapolo too, but like with The Hammer we won't have a clue for years unless something horrific happens or he gets canned like the unmemorable O'Connell. JAG's reported excellent work habits should preclude the latter.

I love having a rooting interest in ex-Patriot players like Hoyer & Cassel.

Click to expand...

I thought i set the bar pretty low by saying he'll be at least as good as mark sanchez,

Miguel said:

in my next update to my 2014 salary cap picture will mention that trading Amendola this season will create $2.88m in cap space.

Click to expand...

But will you be adding the Andre Johnson hit? Seems like a sure thing.

chasa said:

do you think converting those Td's throughout the year would have impacted peyton manning basically being able to do whatever he wanted once Talib got a booboo?

Click to expand...

Is your assessment of his value based on the hypothetical effect of adding him to the team that lost to the Broncos last year? That's a little silly if you ask me. I think there is little question that AJ would improve the Patriots. The open question is what is his value to the Pats and how that would compare to alternative ways to spend that money.

Mack Herron said:

Is your assessment of his value based on the hypothetical effect of adding him to the team that lost to the Broncos last year? That's a little silly if you ask me. I think there is little question that AJ would improve the Patriots. The open question is what is his value to the Pats and how that would compare to alternative ways to spend that money.

Click to expand...

If you are going to use My argument as being hypothetical, I'm curious how your argument is any different. You said he would have made last years red zone numbers better, I said those red zone numbers wouldn't matter because the broncos walk up and down the field ALL over us when we lost our top corner, part way through the first half.

Based on previous experiences with Top tier receivers, we did not win titles with them. the money is better spent on defensive pieces. Andre Johnson moving forward is an older, expensive wide receiver that puts up top ten numbers. Again I'll point to the fact that our offense was THIRD last year, we don't need to get more offense, we need to STOP people from scoring on us, which in turn will improve the offense just due to 1.) more opportunities because of turn overs 2.) brady won't ever have to play catch up and will allow the patriots to use different looks.

HarvardBruin said:

I understand your first point greatly, as I was one of the posters clamoring to get a TE for Brady within the first two rounds. However, regarding your next point about the successor having talent, that does not apply to this situation. By the time Garoppolo steps in, Andre Johnson will either be gone or literally on his last leg. I'd guess that he'd be gone.


The point that xlc makes is a good one, but I still think Brady needs weapons. I believe AJ has another 2 years of elite play left in him, with another 2 years or so thereafter with good play. If we can get him to restructure his contract to be around $7 mil. per year, I'd be on board.

Click to expand...

I wasn't even referring to AJ playing for Graps. I was referring to the notion That WR talent should take a backseat just because Brady could decline in a couple seasons. When actually WR talent will be even more important once Brady drops off or his successor plays. BECAUSE its doubtful the next QB or a declined Brady can carry a poor WR squad lacking size\speed\talent like Brady has.

Mack Herron said:

Did you see our red zone stats last year? Do you not think that AJ would convert a good number of red zone opportunities to TDs?

Click to expand...

NO!

chasa said:

If you are going to use My argument as being hypothetical, I'm curious how your argument is any different. You said he would have made last years red zone numbers better, I said those red zone numbers wouldn't matter because the broncos walk up and down the field ALL over us when we lost our top corner, part way through the first half.

Based on previous experiences with Top tier receivers, we did not win titles with them. the money is better spent on defensive pieces. Andre Johnson moving forward is an older, expensive wide receiver that puts up top ten numbers. Again I'll point to the fact that our offense was THIRD last year, we don't need to get more offense, we need to STOP people from scoring on us, which in turn will improve the offense just due to 1.) more opportunities because of turn overs 2.) brady won't ever have to play catch up and will allow the patriots to use different looks.

Click to expand...

Sage thinking!

chasa said:

Based on previous experiences with Top tier receivers, we did not win titles with them.

Click to expand...

That's such a weak sauce argument. They went 18-1, and were arguably the greatest team in NFL history, with the top tier receiver. The only game they lost was a game where the QB couldn't move to avoid the rush, and the team lost a starting guard early in the game.

Revis has been the best CB in the NFL for years. How many titles has he won?

Deus Irae said:

That's such a weak sauce argument. They went 18-1, and were arguably the greatest team in NFL history, with the top tier receiver. The only game they lost was a game where the QB couldn't move to avoid the rush, and the team lost a starting guard early in the game.

Revis has been the best CB in the NFL for years. How many titles has he won?

Click to expand...

Wait a second! For years you argued against Belichick as the GM because "The Pats haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004". You discounted the 2007 because they didn't win the title even though they were one freak catch or dropped INT from being the best team ever. Now you are arguing just that because it fits your argument?

I will argue the other way with Revis, Revis was a huge factor for two Jets teams going to the AFCCG one of which had no reason even being in the playoffs.

I agree that we don't need a fantasy football dream offense, but that doesn't mean that everything is OK.

Brady is one of the greatest because he proved more than once he can make scrubs #s go sky high, and that is OK, but you can't solely count on that and expect a better outcome than what we had last season.

There were a lot of games last season that our offense played poorly because of poor personnel, rookies and unproved players. One more win and the AFCCG is in Foxboro, that would certainly be a different story. That's why the argument that AJ could have made a difference is valid, because between the Bengals, Panthers and Miami games, you can pick at least one win with a better offense.

I believe things ended up well because the Seahawks would have won anyway without mercy but let's not pretend our problem was only defense and Oline. The receiving corps is a huge question mark and we are expecting a 2nd year leap from some players with no solid evidence that this will happen. It's the same mistake from last season, throwing a lot of responsibility in 2nd year players that in normal circumstances make the leap playing with proven players on their side getting attention from defenses and making plays as well.

Take this with a grain of salt, it is a rumor. Somebody I know on facebook, his friend works in the front office of the Patriots. He said that the Patriots are trying to create cap space to get Johnson. The problem I have is what they are willing to give up for him. Mallett and a 2nd Rounder which I think would be ridiculous for a 33 year old WR. We dont even know if he can grasp the offense. Dont want another Ochocinco!!!

Cool. Now I can say that someone on a message board that I frequent knows someone on FB who has a friend who works in the front office of the Pats (in an unknown capacity...could be as a bookkeeper) that says the Pats are trying to clear cap space for Johnson.

I'm ok with Mallet + 2nd round pick, it's a fair price to be honest. Throw Arrington in the package too and I'm happy.

I checked his age and according to wikipedia he is celebrating 33 years old today so it's not like he's almost 34, it's reasonable to believe that he still has at least 2 good seasons ahead.

betterthanthealternative said:

Cool. Now I can say that someone on a message board that I frequent knows someone on FB who has a friend who works in the front office of the Pats (in an unknown capacity...could be as a bookkeeper) that says the Pats are trying to clear cap space for Johnson.

Click to expand...

I am just relaying what I heard. Which is why I said to take it with a grain of salt!

This should provide enough for all.....maybe:

varjao said:

I'm ok with Mallet + 2nd round pick, it's a fair price to be honest. Throw Arrington in the package too and I'm happy.

I checked his age and according to wikipedia he is celebrating 33 years old today so it's not like he's almost 34, it's reasonable to believe that he still has at least 2 good seasons ahead.

Click to expand...

and amendola.