John Hannah reveals SnowPlow really interfered rather than helped!

SB39 · Jul 8, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
Bob Kraft then tries to build a privately funded stadium in Southie but the Boston pols had an antipathy to Kraft and were puppets of the Red Sox who did not want another major league with a downtown stadium competing for fan obsession.

Bull. The Red Sox weren't the ones who stopped the Patriots. What do they care if the Patriots played in Boston? The Patriots would literally have only 2 or 3 home games taking place while baseball season was still going.

It was the South Boston neighborhood groups with their terrified-of-change-and-development attitude that stopped Bob Kraft. They are also the same people that stopped the Red Sox from building a stadium in the same area.

If they pols were puppets of the Red Sox, then the Red Sox would be playing in South Boston at this very moment. The pols are puppets to the uppity neighborhood groups who do everything they can to thwart any amount of development anyone suggests in this city.

Zeus · Jul 8, 2014

SB39 said:
Bull. The Red Sox weren't the ones who stopped the Patriots. What do they care if the Patriots played in Boston? The Patriots would literally have only 2 or 3 home games taking place while baseball season was still going.

It was the South Boston neighborhood groups with their terrified-of-change-and-development attitude that stopped Bob Kraft. They are also the same people that stopped the Red Sox from building a stadium in the same area.

If they pols were puppets of the Red Sox, then the Red Sox would be playing in South Boston at this very moment. The pols are puppets to the uppity neighborhood groups who do everything they can to thwart any amount of development anyone suggests in this city.

Here's an interesting take on the situation written just after Kraft had agreed to move the team to Connecticut. The Krafts come across as politically naïve while the local pols (Menino, Flaherty, Finneran and to a lesser extent Weld) come across as guys who needed to have their asses kissed with the exact proper pucker before they would agree to anything at all.

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/patriots/mass_fizzled.htm

supafly · Jul 8, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
Orthwein was really brought in by the league to position the franchise for sale. St Louis was the target. So Orth hires a marquis HC, Bill Parcells to shape up the franchise for sale at max dollars. Reebok billionaire Paul Fireman was the local everyone was rooting for to buy the team & keep it here but out of nowhere Kraft buys the team.

Bob Kraft then tries to build a privately funded stadium in Southie but the Boston pols had an antipathy to Kraft and were puppets of the Red Sox who did not want another major league with a downtown stadium competing for fan obsession. The Southie plans were thwarted by politics so Kraft considered and threatened to move the team to Hartford CT. I remember considering how long my commute would be there from Metrowest Sudbury, home of Freddie Smerlas. Hartford took the bid seriously and when MA relented enough to agree to improve route 1 exit/entry to a new stadium Kraft left Hartford at the altar (bitter feelings) and built the new facility with luxury boxes & red seats for the moneyed crowd.

Oh yes, Hartford too--it probably seemed like a best case scenario at the time. I forgot about that as well. Thanks for the response.

supafly · Jul 8, 2014

dales804 said:
At least Kraft is a fan. I'm sure a lot of us had this reaction after that game. Maybe some a bit more "animated."

Boy, is that an understatement, and after such a dramatic comeback to boot. I'll never forget jumping up and down like a little kid when ARZ fumbled trying to run out the clock. That was the worst thing about the loss in my opinion.

Froob · Jul 8, 2014

supafly said:
Boy, is that an understatement, and after such a dramatic comeback to boot. I'll never forget jumping up and down like a little kid when ARZ fumbled trying to run out the clock. That was the worst thing about the loss in my opinion.

Shame the game was cancelled shortly after Woody's game winning touchdown was taken back on a ticky tacky hold.

PatsWickedPissah · Jul 8, 2014

Zeus said:
Here's an interesting take on the situation written just after Kraft had agreed to move the team to Connecticut. The Krafts come across as politically naïve while the local pols (Menino, Flaherty, Finneran and to a lesser extent Weld) come across as guys who needed to have their asses kissed with the exact proper pucker before they would agree to anything at all.

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/patriots/mass_fizzled.htm

Great trip down forgotten memory lane article. Weld (NOT a Boston pol but Governor of the state) was a supporter but he was a dilettante and distracted by his political ambitions. I'd see Weld at games in the old stadium. He looked as if he'd been sampling some of that infamous "brown liquid".
Even I had forgotten the depth of the visceral hatred for Kraft and his plans expressed in the Boston media. It's difficult to explain to those well under 40 how negatively the Pats of the mid 90s were thought of, nothing in any any way resembling the 21st century team, except for the relatively few long time football fans who revered the franchise. The Sox obsessed Boston sportswriters clan were negative on all things Patriots. Big name coach Parcells, #1 pick Bledsoe and of course Robert Kraft slowly began the process of changing the local perception.

xlcjw72 · Jul 9, 2014

can some one explain the kraft situation in boston like im 5?

PatsWickedPissah · Jul 9, 2014

xlcjw72 said:
can some one explain the kraft situation in boston like im 5?

Read the article in post #22

captain stone · Jul 9, 2014

Froob said:
Shame the game was cancelled shortly after Woody's game winning touchdown was taken back on a ticky tacky hold.

Then Brady takes knees with at least one TO still in hand instead of being a little more aggressive
(he's Tom Brady, d%#*!@t) to secure better FG position. A very, very poorly-called game overall.

supafly · Jul 9, 2014

captain stone said:
Then Brady takes knees with at least one TO still in hand instead of being a little more aggressive
(he's Tom Brady, d%#*!@t) to secure better FG position. A very, very poorly-called game overall.

I'm always one for trying to pick up an extra couple/few yds as well on FG attempts. Of course, that has to be weighed with the placement of the ball as close to mid-field as possible, but I'm never a guy who likes to "settle" for 42 yd attempts either.

I feel much more confident when Gost is kicking FG attempts in the later 30s as opposed to the earlier 40s, even though it's only a few yards. This game may be a decent example of that.

QuantumMechanic · Jul 9, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
Read the article in post #22

Actually, I disagree. I'm pretty sure the waterfront stadium proposal was NOT privately-funded, or if it was, it would still require hundreds of millions in state money for infrastructure improvements in the area. Either way there was going to be a pretty hefty amount of taxpayer dollars going into it, which was what Speaker Finneran hung his opposition on. And you know what -- good for him. I'm damned glad MA didn't end up in a taxpayer-raping deal like so many other states do.

After Finneran helped kill the waterfront proposal, Kraft started his Hartford dalliance (to -- I'm sure, in retrospect -- try to put some pressure on the MA legislature). Eventually, Finneran agreed to push through a $70 mil package to upgrade Rt 1 near the stadium, though Kraft had to pay the $70 mil back to the state over team (I think he has 20 years). Once that was hammered out, Kraft jilted Hartford and then privately built Gillette.

PatsWickedPissah · Jul 10, 2014

I also am glad MA taxpayers didn't get shafted for a sports stadium but Finneran & other pols' and the Boston Globe's open antipathy for Kraft was well known. Don't remember reading that Kraft's S Boston stadium proposal was a publicly, not privately, funded proposal.

Jackson 2 · Jul 10, 2014

rlcarr said:
Actually, I disagree. I'm pretty sure the waterfront stadium proposal was NOT privately-funded, or if it was, it would still require hundreds of millions in state money for infrastructure improvements in the area. Either way there was going to be a pretty hefty amount of taxpayer dollars going into it, which was what Speaker Finneran hung his opposition on. And you know what -- good for him. I'm damned glad MA didn't end up in a taxpayer-raping deal like so many other states do.

After Finneran helped kill the waterfront proposal, Kraft started his Hartford dalliance (to -- I'm sure, in retrospect -- try to put some pressure on the MA legislature). Eventually, Finneran agreed to push through a $70 mil package to upgrade Rt 1 near the stadium, though Kraft had to pay the $70 mil back to the state over team (I think he has 20 years). Once that was hammered out, Kraft jilted Hartford and then privately built Gillette.

The waterfront idea was called the Megaplex proposal which was to be 100% taxpayer funded and put forth by the Weld/Cellucci administration. It was ultimately turned down by the legislature. It's defeat resulted in Kraft's flirtation with Hartford prior to his decision to build Gillette with his own money along with taxpayer funding for infrastructure.

Deus Irae · Jul 10, 2014

I love Hannah, but the video clearly shows that his memory is a bit off.

Nikolai · Jul 10, 2014

Hannah's article is pretty well refuted by the video evidence.

On another note, one thing I've noticed about the whole "Hartford flirtation" is that there are a lot of bitter CT residents about it. There are plenty of fans of weird off-the-wall teams here like the Colts, Raiders, Packers, etc and I've had more than a few tell me that the whole Kraft-Hartford thing is the reason they switched their allegiances. I thought, and still tend to think, it's an overreaction, but I guess this was the city that had just lost the Whalers at that point. I guess they didn't like being ****ed with given their situation.

Jackson 2 · Jul 10, 2014

Nikolai said:
Hannah's article is pretty well refuted by the video evidence.

On another note, one thing I've noticed about the whole "Hartford flirtation" is that there are a lot of bitter CT residents about it. There are plenty of fans of weird off-the-wall teams here like the Colts, Raiders, Packers, etc and I've had more than a few tell me that the whole Kraft-Hartford thing is the reason they switched their allegiances. I thought, and still tend to think, it's an overreaction, but I guess this was the city that had just lost the Whalers at that point. I guess they didn't like being ****ed with given their situation.

Yeah, I love Bob Kraft and think he's the best owner in sports. But, he played Hartford and Connecticut like a bull fiddle and I don't believe he ever intended to go there. It might be the only thing that Dan "the Douche" Shaughnessy ever got right. I, also, know CT people who dropped their Patriots allegiance after that episode. My advice: get over it, although easy for me to say.

JR4 · Jul 10, 2014

Nikolai said:
Hannah's article is pretty well refuted by the video evidence. ....

Not sure the video you speak of is the whole story. My brother who was at the game says he remembers
players clearing an area AFTER the snow plow did it's thing. Did the video you speak of
focus on the spot the whole time from the snow plow clearing until the ball was kicked?
Do you have a link to the video?

patfanken · Jul 10, 2014

Jackson 2 said:
Yeah, I love Bob Kraft and think he's the best owner in sports. But, he played Hartford and Connecticut like a bull fiddle and I don't believe he ever intended to go there. It might be the only thing that Dan "the Douchov" Shaughnessy ever got right. I, also, know CT people who dropped their Patriots allegiance after that episode. My advice: get over it, although easy for me to say.

The best thing Bob Kraft ever did for the state of CT. was to "jilt" them. The CT Gov. at the time (IIRC) put forth a plan that was literally CRIMINAL. He promised that the state would not only fully fund the stadium, they would also GUARANTEE sellouts for ever, plus other benefits for the Kraft family.

There was no way that a state legislature would have passed that kind of one sided bill. It would have cost the state over a half a BILLION dollars and not cost Kraft a dime. No way the people of CT would have put up with that.

BSR · Jul 11, 2014

Jackson 2 said:
The waterfront idea was called the Megaplex proposal which was to be 100% taxpayer funded and put forth by the Weld/Cellucci administration. It was ultimately turned down by the legislature. It's defeat resulted in Kraft's flirtation with Hartford prior to his decision to build Gillette with his own money along with taxpayer funding for infrastructure.

If you read the article posted, the Megaplex proposal was the first proposal. The second proposal was one where MA would pay for the infrastructure and Kraft would pay for the stadium was then also shut down because Kraft didn't grease the right greedy palms. Instead we got a 100% tax payer funded courthouse on prime waterfront property and they all cheered. Corrupt politics at its finest.

20 years later and that broken down underdeveloped area is finally just starting to be built up. One can only imagine how much more accelerated that development would have been if that stadium had been built there in the first place.

Jackson 2 · Jul 11, 2014

BSR said:
If you read the article posted, the Megaplex proposal was the first proposal. The second proposal was one where MA would pay for the infrastructure and Kraft would pay for the stadium was then also shut down because Kraft didn't grease the right greedy palms. Instead we got a 100% tax payer funded courthouse on prime waterfront property and they all cheered. Corrupt politics at its finest.

20 years later and that broken down underdeveloped area is finally just starting to be built up. One can only imagine how much more accelerated that development would have been if that stadium had been built there in the first place.

With all due respect, and I mean that, you're wrong. There were no corrupt poltics in the Megaplex proposal which made it, in and of itself, an anomaly in Massachusetts politics. You know as well as I know that Bob Kraft would have greased the appropriate palms if that's what it would have taken. So stop pushing revisionist history on us because that's what you're doing here. Provide proof.

John Hannah reveals SnowPlow really interfered rather than helped!

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