Does this just make too much sense? (Andre Johnson wants out of Houston)

mmasterkillah said:

Considering his no-BS personality, this isn't going to end well for the Texans unless they make a move.

Click to expand...

His choices are to play and get paid, or to not play and not get paid. In the end, the teams hold the strong hand, as T.O. found out.

mmasterkillah said:

I have to strongly disagree. Johnson has been frustrated by that offense for a ton of reasons, none are "GET ME THE DAMN BALL", like Keyshawn used to say.

Andre has been frustrated by awful QB play, and less than exemplary coaching. He gets the ball forced to him when covered and then they'll throw elsewhere or out of bounds when he's wide open.

I gotta say it would be pretty bad of the Texans if they just held on and let the kid rot. He's a hell of an asset, and he clearly is determined to give up money to play for a winner, as he's given up over $1 million so far.

Considering his no-BS personality, this isn't going to end well for the Texans unless they make a move.

Click to expand...

Houston is not going to just trade or cut him cause they will have to eat all his cap space without having his talent on the field and at the end of the day his a 33 year old WR he is not the future of that team anyways so the only one that it wont end well for is Johnson if he wants to keep holding out, and the fines only go up from here on out so at some point he will have to give in or retire

... So having your team leader as a complete malcontent is a win-win for the Texans? The Pats didn't even want to deal with Lawyer Milloy, because he was divisive in the locker room at times.

You think Andre is going to fit in well with Ryan Fitzpatrick starting?

Obviously, Andre is between a rock and a hard place right now, which is why he's playing his cards the only way he knows how at this point. I don't know how it will end up, but if I were BOB I would've dealt him a while ago. I'd rather not be a first year coach in a battle with the best player in franchise history.

mmasterkillah said:

... So having your team leader as a complete malcontent is a win-win for the Texans? The Pats didn't even want to deal with Lawyer Milloy, because he was divisive in the locker room at times.

You think Andre is going to fit in well with Ryan Fitzpatrick starting?

Obviously, Andre is between a rock and a hard place right now, which is why he's playing his cards the only way he knows how at this point. I don't know how it will end up, but if I were BOB I would've dealt him a while ago. I'd rather not be a first year coach in a battle with the best player in franchise history.

Click to expand...

Milloy was cut cause he did not want to take less money so the pats cut him and moved on with Harrison at SS this is a different story he does not want to play for 12 million cause he think they cant win. there best player and so called leader is telling everyone who is working hard in camp right now you are not good a nuff for more me and I cant win with you players and coaches

patsfan-1982 said:

I think he is looking for more then just a playoff team; he wants a QB that will throw his way 50% of the time like Matt Schaub did. He had 181 targets last year, that's 30 more targets than Calvin Johnson got on a team with less weapons than Houston. No one will throw the ball to a 33 year old WR that many times. Gronk has over 80% comp percentage for his career, do you think Brady will throw to a guy almost 200 times if he is only catching just over 50%?

I am a fan of the guy, but the Pats don't have the CAP space, and he would be a lot more happy playing for Oakland were Schaub can get him in to the HOF.

Click to expand...

Johnson caught 60% of his passes last from the 3 stooges the Texans had playing QB. Not too far from 66% which would be 2 out of 3 passes and acceptable by NE standards. Dropson and Falling down Tompkins caught 51% or less last season and youre gambling the farm that they will improve in year 2.

If its about winning and a playoff run (and I believe it is) then why wouldn't Johnson do his share going along to get along? Brady throws to the guy in the right spot and who catches the ball.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Deus Irae said:

His choices are to play and get paid, or to not play and not get paid. In the end, the teams hold the strong hand, as T.O. found out.

Click to expand...

Johnson has leverage too.

He would be a distraction that BOB doesn't need. Especially if the Texans start on a losing streak and every press conference has questions like "If Andre weren't sitting home do you think that you would have won?" The fans want to see wins and BOB likely has a 1 year grace period where 6 - 8 wins this year would calm the natives down and appear that the franchise is moving in the right direction.

Towards youth and towards all team players.

Johnson doesn't want to be part of another rebuild. He doesn't like BOBs choice of QB. BOB could easily make the case to ship Johnson out to rid the team of non believers like him.

If playing "hardball" and wasting a trade asset, when he isn't going to play for you (ala Barry Sanders) is a good move [for the Texans team], then step on my toes until you make me say ouch.

mmasterkillah said:

... So having your team leader as a complete malcontent is a win-win for the Texans? The Pats didn't even want to deal with Lawyer Milloy, because he was divisive in the locker room at times.

Click to expand...

That's not what happened. The conventional belief is that the Patriots and Milloy were negotiating to restructure during camp and the preseason and were close to finalizing a deal before the season began. Then, out of nowhere, Milloy took a hardline stance refusing to restructure. Most believe his agent tested the field and found out his client could do better than NE's restructure offer (which is tampering which is cheating which is infinitely worse than a camera placed 50 feet away from where it should be but no one cares about that).

That's why they cut him the week before the season began. If they cut him for being a malcontent they wouldn't have brought him all the way into September.

mmasterkillah said:

Obviously, Andre is between a rock and a hard place right now, which is why he's playing his cards the only way he knows how at this point. I don't know how it will end up, but if I were BOB I would've dealt him a while ago. I'd rather not be a first year coach in a battle with the best player in franchise history.

Click to expand...

Well, if he is anything like the team that raised him (us) he won't give in to a petulant receivers demands.

mmasterkillah said:

If playing "hardball" and wasting a trade asset, when he isn't going to play for you (ala Barry Sanders) is a good move [for the Texans team], then step on my toes until you make me say ouch.

Click to expand...

I know this has been discussed already, but what are the financial implications of these potential moves?

For example, if HOU is able to reach a trade, what are they looking at in terms of dead cap money? Would they consider such a move?

And would there actually be anyway possible that we (N.England) would be able to sign him to a reasonable deal? More importantly, does anyone think that Johnson would take less money to go to a contender such as N.England? Common sense would probably state that there would be a handful of teams willing to consider his current deal, no?

I'm just guessing of course, and aren't currently familiar with the specifics, other than IIRC Johnson was costing around 10m dollars on the Texans cap hit this year.

mmasterkillah said:

If playing "hardball" and wasting a trade asset, when he isn't going to play for you (ala Barry Sanders) is a good move [for the Texans team], then step on my toes until you make me say ouch.

Click to expand...

The Patriots (remember Brian Waters) seem to have a different perspective than do you.

patsinthesnow said:

Comeon Houston, let him free (I will lose it if they cut him and he becomes a free agent).

Click to expand...

Another issue at play in this scenario is: O'Briens first year as a HC. Other players will be looking at this to see how he handles it. It may be that he starts from a hard position just to make that initial impression (which could be slightly different from how he handles it going forward).

mmasterkillah said:

If playing "hardball" and wasting a trade asset, when he isn't going to play for you (ala Barry Sanders) is a good move [for the Texans team], then step on my toes until you make me say ouch.

Click to expand...

It may hurt them in this one case, but a main point of playing hardball is the deterrent effect. No team wants to set the precedent "just sit out, it's worth it, you'll get what you want."

An update to Andrewatch amidst Lebronwatch:

@RapSheet: Andre Johnson spoke at @Nike event in Ore. @MarcusSmith_ asked if he’ll be a Texan in Week 1: “I don’t know. I can’t answer that question.”

@RapSheet: Four teams have expressed interest in trading for #Texans WR Andre Johnson, who is working out now “not thinking of the Texans,” source said

@RapSheet: Details of divide between Andre Johnson & #Texans is posting on @NFL.com. He told them he wants to play for another team. Houston resisting

Comeon Houston cave in...

I would love to see Andre catching passes from Brady.

I wonder how much Johnson is willing to restructure on his contract.

@AlbertBreer: Per @RapSheet, Andre Johnson told Texans he wants a trade, four teams have inquired. Next big date is 7/25, when vets report in Houston.

@daverichard: Two teams make a ton of sense for Andre Johnson: Panthers, Patriots. Both would have to re-work his deal to get him under their cap.

I don't see any way Houston trades Johnson to the Patriots. I would love it, but why would they want to strengthen the competition?

KontradictioN said:

I don't see any way Houston trades Johnson to the Patriots. I would love it, but why would they want to strengthen the competition?

Click to expand...

Because they might have no other choice. Johnson is going to get to control where he goes because of his contract.

And why would Huston care who they strengthen anyway? They're not contenders, they don't even have a quarterback.

Marqui said:

Because they might have no other choice. Johnson is going to get to control where he goes because of his contract.

And why would Huston care who they strengthen anyway? They're not contenders, they don't even have a quarterback.

Click to expand...

They went to the playoffs with T.J. Yates as their quarterback simply because of good coaching and good defense. They still have both. It's way too early to crown anyone or count anyone out. Either way, I'm sure Houston prefers to trade him out of the conference instead of in it.