Who will be the starting safety opposite Devin McCourty?

Sticky Caulk said:

I don't see one post from Kon saying anything about Chung being good or doing well. Only projecting that he could possibly take over for Sanders and that having a replacement for Sanders would be a good thing. You're grasping pretty hard there.

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fnordcircle said:

Lookout, disagree with Brady6 and he'll....SEARCH YOUR POST HISTORY.

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KontradictioN said:

Nothing about those posts shows me agreeing that Chung was good back in 2010. I will say it was one of his better seasons in the NFL but that's not saying much given that he's been among the worst starting safeties in the NFL during his career.

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Back in 2009, 2010, and 2011 the majority of this board was very positive in regards to Pat Chung, he was viewed as a good player by most. In 2012 he played awful ended up as the fourth safety by the end of the season, and then he had a terrible season last year with Philly. Everyone is just focusing on 2012 and 2013, I said he had a good season in 2010 and was a key player down the stretch in 2011, I do not see that is being incorrect at all, so I am not sure why you are taking issue with it.

2010 – 96 tackles, 3 interceptions, 1 return for a TD, 9 pass defensed, 4 run stuffs, and 2 blocked kicks, that is a very productive season.

Brady6 said:

Back in 2009, 2010, and 2011 the majority of this board was very positive in regards to Pat Chung, he was viewed as a good player by most.

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You confuse hope with analysis and stats with quality play.

Brady6 said:

Back in 2009, 2010, and 2011 the majority of this board was very positive in regards to Pat Chung, he was viewed as a good player by most. In 2012 he played awful ended up as the fourth safety by the end of the season, and then he had a terrible season last year with Philly. Everyone is just focusing on 2012 and 2013, I said he had a good season in 2010 and was a key player down the stretch in 2011, I do not see that is being incorrect at all, so I am not sure why you are taking issue with it.

2010 – 96 tackles, 3 interceptions, 1 return for a TD, 9 pass defensed, 4 run stuffs, and 2 blocked kicks, that is a very productive season.

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You should have actually looked at one of the posts that you quoted me saying back then stating that I had nothing to go on but optimism. That optimism turned out to be false as Chung ultimately turned out to be a failure at safety.

KontradictioN said:

You should have actually looked at one of the posts that you quoted me saying back then stating that I had nothing to go on but optimism. That optimism turned out to be false as Chung ultimately turned out to be a failure at safety.

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Deus Irae said:

You confuse hope with analysis and stats with quality play.

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Personally, I did not think his quality of play was that poor in 2010 and 2011, the past 2 seasons I agree he has been one of the worst starting safeties in the NFL.

Needless to say I voted for Tavon Wilson to win the job so it is not as if I am a huge Pat Chung advocate, in fact I give him a 50/50 shot at even making the team.

I think what's happening with some people regarding their memories of Chung, is that they're confusing good play for a young player with good play overall. I think Chung in his first two seasons played well enough for many to think "This guy has the potential to get it, if he takes that next step." He showed flashes of thinking he could be a solid safety, and so there was reason to rate him positively in the context of a rookie/2nd year player.

Then the last two years happens, and he's shown to be a sub par safety overall. Now people look back and remember "Hey, he was pretty good his first two years!" when in reality he was only considered "good" because there was expectation he would continue to grow. Think of it as a form of confirmation bias. You remember things based on how you felt about the player at the time, not about how that player performed in relation to other players at his position.

That said, I still think Chung could have a spot on this team, if BB can keep him in a limited role on defense and he can carve out a role on ST. He just won't sniff a starting position, he's not that caliber of player in this league.

Deus Irae said:

Chung has never had a good season in the NFL.

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Agreed. He's shown flashes in certain games where the matchups worked in his favor. When he was up against offenses that had good receivers in read-and-react systems, he looked lost and was frequently out of position.

But to give him a break, he was basically playing goalie for the Florida Panthers the last time he was in New England. My recollection of 2011 2012 was that it was like watching a power play in long yardage situations.

This is a whole different scene in 2014 - better pass rush, linebackers who can actually cover somebody, a fellow safety who can communicate and handle his area, and superb cover corners outside and in the slot. Chung might have an excellent year. Or not.

Either way this is his best opportunity in years.

PS: I voted that the safety opposite McCourty is not yet on the roster.

Brady6 said:

Personally, I did not think his quality of play was that poor in 2010 and 2011, the past 2 seasons I agree he has been one of the worst starting safeties in the NFL.

Needless to say I voted for Tavon Wilson to win the job so it is not as if I am a huge Pat Chung advocate, in fact I give him a 50/50 shot at even making the team.

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The problem is that you're overrating him in 2010 and 2011, though. In 2011, he was supposed to be the anchor of the secondary which ended up the second worst pass defense of all time (at that point). 2010 was his best year as a pro, as I said before, but that's certainly not saying much. He certainly wasn't "solid" and was actually targetted often by opposing quarterbacks. After he got benched in 2012, he went to Philly to play in the defense that he had success in in college, washed out (in what ended up being another poor secondary as a whole), had trouble finding work, then got signed here as a depth option. The only reason he may make the team this year is because Tavon Wilson might actually be worse.

Sicilian said:

Bottom line, I think Harmon will get the most snaps as a traditional safety besides McCourty, but all in all the secondary is basically McCourty and Revis on the field 100%, with everyone else in a giant pool of players that will be cycled through based on matchups and gameplans.

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You summarized it perfectly. In the front seven I think Chandler Jones, Nink and Mayo are the only others that fall into a similar category. 4 downs and every situation for these guys. Everyone else... it depends.

Chung was maybe average at best in 2010. He can't cover. He is better vs the run but always gets hurt making a tackle.

Anyway, I see Harmon starting the season but once Browner comes back after 4 games I think the logjam at CB could open the door to Ryan taking the job

Chung gambled on the big play way too often. He is perfectly content with getting beat if he 'almost' intercepts the ball. Very reckless. I do not want to see him on the field for the Patriots again.

Duron Harmon.

Next question.....

Sticky Caulk said:

Chung gambled on the big play way too often. He is perfectly content with getting beat if he 'almost' intercepts the ball. Very reckless. I do not want to see him on the field for the Patriots again.

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Define on the field for the Patriots, do you mean at all in any form or just as a starter? I think Chung is an very good special teams player personally, I think his battle is with Nate Ebner.

KontradictioN said:

The problem is that you're overrating him in 2010 and 2011, though. In 2011, he was supposed to be the anchor of the secondary which ended up the second worst pass defense of all time (at that point). 2010 was his best year as a pro, as I said before, but that's certainly not saying much. He certainly wasn't "solid" and was actually targetted often by opposing quarterbacks. After he got benched in 2012, he went to Philly to play in the defense that he had success in in college, washed out (in what ended up being another poor secondary as a whole), had trouble finding work, then got signed here as a depth option. The only reason he may make the team this year is because Tavon Wilson might actually be worse.

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I am not overrating him, I said he played good, which I felt he did, he was very productive in both of those seasons. I agree his career never took shape as expected, and I do not expect that to change now, but I am not going to slight him, he was not that bad in 2010 and 2011.

goheels22002 said:

PS: I voted that the safety opposite McCourty is not yet on the roster.

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That's bold. Where are the Patriots going to get a starting safety at this point in the offseason?

Brady6 said:

he was not that bad in 2010 and 2011.

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Yes, he was. He couldn't cover a dead man.

BritPat said:

Duron Harmon.

Next question.....

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This is how I see it as well.

Sciz said:

That's bold. Where are the Patriots going to get a starting safety at this point in the offseason?

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I don't see any free agent safeties that look appealin, but as I recall, teams have 90 players at this time of year and will have to release 37 of those to get to the allowed 53-man roster. Let's see, 32 teams X 37 players released = 1,184 players to be cut. There will be a decent safety or two in that group.

Deus Irae said:

Yes, he was. He couldn't cover a dead man.

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He was targeted 58 times resulting in 39 receptions for 453 yards. Which is not impressive by any stretch of the imagination but not as bad as you imply.

supafly said:

This is how I see it as well.

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I like Harmon, and agree he seems to be the likely starter but I have concerns about his coverage. On the season, he was targeted 12 times and allowed 8 receptions for 99 yards. His 66.67% completion rating against was tied with Brandon Spikes for the highest on the team for players targeted 10+ times.

goheels22002 said:

I don't see any free agent safeties that look appealin, but as I recall, teams have 90 players at this time of year and will have to release 37 of those to get to the allowed 53-man roster. Let's see, 32 teams X 37 players released = 1,184 players to be cut. There will be a decent safety or two in that group.

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Can you give some possible names? I just can't imagine that at a position where teams have a hard enough time finding two decent safeties to be their starters, some team is going to have too many decent safeties.