Its official, Jimmy Graham is franchised as a TE, not WR

Kontradiction · Jul 3, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Graham spends more time split wide and in the slot than he does inline. The arbitrator based his decision on a non-existent 4 yard line of demarcation, the consistent application of which would turn slot receivers, often the smallest players on the offense, into tight ends.

Yeah I read the end of the report yesterday. That 4 yard line of demarcation is a bunch of crap. I'm really not sure where he came up with four yards from. The methodology that they used to come to their conclusion is faulty but the conclusion is still correct. Graham lines up in the slot quite a bit, but he still lines up along the LOS and does things WR's simply don't do. He also gets covered by LB's quite a bit which is something you don't see with a WR. I could see it if TE's didn't line up in the slot before him. He would certainly have a better case then. But they have and they still do. I mentioned Winslow in my last post and he's (I believe) the first TE that started lining up in the slot.

Either way, if he doesn't iron out a long term deal with the Saints and wants to get tagged as a WR next year, he should sit out the first ten games, play the final six, and line up five yards away from the tackle. Actually, if I were him, that's exactly what I'd do since it would line up with the methodology that the report used to say he's a TE.

chasa · Jul 3, 2014

Jordan Cameron alters Twitter bio after Graham case | NFL.com

And the butterfly effect begins. Jordan Cameron no longer classifies himself as a Tightend, he is now a Pass Catcher.

Kontradiction · Jul 3, 2014

chasa said:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...-cameron-alters-twitter-bio-after-graham-case

And the butterfly effect begins. Jordan Cameron no longer classifies himself as a Tightend, he is now a Pass Catcher.

A lot of TE's coming up on new contracts are going to start doing this now. Not really a surprise.

Froob · Jul 3, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
Let's clear some things up about Jimmy Graham. I have no prob him wanting to be franchised a wr since his production is like a WR. Especially since he can't sign his $60million contract. But saying he is worth more $$ because he can't block is nuts. He should argue a different point. Unable to block makes him worth less $$. Also let's clear up who is the best TE. Many NFL analyst s are saying he is better than even a healthy Gronk. Graham was touted as a 6'7 260lb the who runs routes like a posession WR. I watched all his highlights and didn't see how he runs routes slightly quicker than Gronk. It was actually the other way around and clearly Gronk is quicker in his routes and more flexible and every bit the as athletic as Graham. Not to mention far more physical. And as for blocking its not even comparable, Gronk is an extra Olineman while Graham can't block. Graham gets the trophy as the best TE ONLY because Gronk misses so many games. If Gronk plays the whole season it won't be up for debate who is better out of Gronk and Graham. Gronk is a quicker route runner while every bit as athletic or more and far more physically dominant catching passes as well as blocking. Just watch both on youtube highlights.

Not only that, Gronk is the GOAT tight end if he's healthy.

Froob · Jul 3, 2014

TJ Lang has changed his Twitter Bio to NFL QB

varjao · Jul 3, 2014

chasa said:
Jordan Cameron alters Twitter bio after Graham case | NFL.com

And the butterfly effect begins. Jordan Cameron no longer classifies himself as a Tightend, he is now a Pass Catcher.

What an ass.

chasa · Jul 3, 2014

varjao said:
What an ass.

If teams are going to use that as part of their argument over how much hes going to get paid, he's making the right choice imo.

Deus Irae · Jul 3, 2014

varjao said:
What an ass.

It's not Cameron's fault the CBA doesn't cover this and the arbitrator was an idiot.

They're going to need to come up with another receiver designation to cover the WWWs and Jimmy Grahams of the league.

Rob0729 · Jul 3, 2014

FWIW, according to Mike Freeman, at least six teams are looking to make a run at Graham if the Saints can't get him a long term deal

Reiterating: there are a good half dozen teams preparing to make runs at Graham should talks between him and Saints falter.

https://twitter.com/mikefreemanNFL/status/484377853174513664

Apparently according to the CBA, as long as Graham doesn't sign his tender or make a long term deal with the Saints, any team can still sign him up until week ten of the regular season. Of course two first round pick compensation still apply. I think the Saints cannot match any offer after July 15th because the CBA states that the team franchising a player cannot give a long term deal to that player after July 15th. So if the Saints don't get a long term deal done by the 15th and another team signs Graham to an offer sheet, the Saints look to have no choice but let him go and take the two first rounders.

As tempting as it sounds, I doubt Belichick would ever give up two first round picks and make Graham the highest paid TE in the league.

Sicilian · Jul 3, 2014

Deus Irae said:
It's not Cameron's fault the CBA doesn't cover this and the arbitrator was an idiot.

They're going to need to come up with another receiver designation to cover the WWWs and Jimmy Grahams of the league.

The cleanest way to do it (IMO) would be lump all the categories together more. On offense, have:

QBs
Skill Positions (WR, TE, RB)
Linemen (All OL)

On Defense, have:

Linemen
Linebacker
Secondary

Yes, this would mean that some positions would get franchised at higher numbers, thus would be franchised less often than others. But it lessens the grey areas, and I don't believe the franchise tag should be used to get players at bargains anyway. I don't think that was its original intention.

Kontradiction · Jul 3, 2014

Deus Irae said:
It's not Cameron's fault the CBA doesn't cover this and the arbitrator was an idiot.

They're going to need to come up with another receiver designation to cover the WWWs and Jimmy Grahams of the league.

Yep. That's ultimately where this is going to end up going. Like I said, Cameron is just the beginning. We're going to start to see more and more TE's that work in the slot beginning to cover their ass. That may include Gronk in a couple of years.

Sicilian said:
The cleanest way to do it (IMO) would be lump all the categories together more. On offense, have:
QBs
Skill Positions (WR, TE, RB)
Linemen (All OL)
On Defense, have:
Linemen
Linebacker
Secondary
Yes, this would mean that some positions would get franchised at higher numbers, thus would be franchised less often than others. But it lessens the grey areas, and I don't believe the franchise tag should be used to get players at bargains anyway. I don't think that was its original intention.

This works for me.

Deus Irae · Jul 3, 2014

Sicilian said:
The cleanest way to do it (IMO) would be lump all the categories together more. On offense, have:

QBs
Skill Positions (WR, TE, RB)
Linemen (All OL)

On Defense, have:

Linemen
Linebacker
Secondary

Yes, this would mean that some positions would get franchised at higher numbers, thus would be franchised less often than others. But it lessens the grey areas, and I don't believe the franchise tag should be used to get players at bargains anyway. I don't think that was its original intention.

I agree with your intentions. I definitely agree with the bolded. I just don't see the owners being willing to accept what you're offering. They've already given in on the OL designations. I don't see any way in hell that they're going to lump DT and DE together, for one example, especially with the league getting even more pass happy.

sieglo · Jul 3, 2014

Can we franchise Brady as a punter when his contract is up? I think he pooched one last season.

strngplyr · Jul 3, 2014

sieglo said:
Can we franchise Brady as a punter when his contract is up? I think he pooched one last season.

He also refers to himself as the best punter on the team.

Deus Irae · Jul 3, 2014

sieglo said:
Can we franchise Brady as a punter when his contract is up? I think he pooched one last season.

Probably better off trying for the RB designation, with all those sneaks for firsts and TDs.

Sicilian · Jul 3, 2014

Deus Irae said:
I agree with your intentions. I definitely agree with the bolded. I just don't see the owners being willing to accept what you're offering. They've already given in on the OL designations. I don't see any way in hell that they're going to lump DT and DE together, for one example, especially with the league getting even more pass happy.

Yeah, I don't see it happening either. The PA would have to concede something in order to get it, and they don't have many chips as it is. Plus it would only really impact a handful of players in the grand scheme of things, so I doubt it's high on anyone's radar to fight for (other than Jimmy Graham's obviously).

AzorianPats · Jul 4, 2014

chasa said:
Jordan Cameron alters Twitter bio after Graham case | NFL.com

And the butterfly effect begins. Jordan Cameron no longer classifies himself as a Tightend, he is now a Pass Catcher.

Poor move by Cameron and his representatives.

Graham and Cameron are both TE's, that get split out wide to exploit mismatches. I'm sorry I like Jordan Cameron a lot and think he can emerge as an elite TE in this league, but he is not in the Gronk or Graham class yet. And his stats as a pass catcher are far from elite.

And back to Jimmy Graham. Besides labeling himself as a TE on twitter, a couple of other reasons why he shouldn't be paid like an elite WR are Aqib Talib, Devin McCourty, and the whole Seahawks secondary. I'm sure we all remember the goose egg he put up against us last year. Talib followed him around for 3 1\2 quarters until he got injured, then McCourty continued the complete shutdown. And he completely wet the bed twice vs Seattle last year.

chasa · Jul 4, 2014

thats why this is a brilliant move, he makes the change now, so if his numbers keep climbing he has a legitimate claim that hes not JUST a tightend.

If he waits and then changes it when its time for the tag(if he gets tagged) the judge would just say bro you JUST changed it today.

Wheelman · Jul 5, 2014

AzorianPats said:
Poor move by Cameron and his representatives.

Graham and Cameron are both TE's, that get split out wide to exploit mismatches. I'm sorry I like Jordan Cameron a lot and think he can emerge as an elite TE in this league, but he is not in the Gronk or Graham class yet. And his stats as a pass catcher are far from elite.

Can Jordan Cameron block?

Graham's not an elite tight end, he can't block.

james87654 · Jul 5, 2014

im on the fence with this one....but in the NFL i always side with the players given what they do to their bodies and that it stands for Not For Long

Its official, Jimmy Graham is franchised as a TE, not WR

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