"Adam Gase throws Peyton under the bus"

Efstratios said:

Interesting choice putting Young in the top ten. He definitely was one of the greats, but so many mediots/casual fans seem to rank him somewhere between 11-15 or so (Manning, Elway, and Marino tend to pop up in the top 10 more frequently). Would you say that his passer rating, MVP campaigns, and SB win put him in the top ten, or is there another factor to it?

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He improved on Montana's numbers in the WCO. He only had one one-and-done in the playoffs and, unlike Peyton, he finished with a winning record in the playoffs. He accomplished what he did despite backing up Montana for years and despite not really getting to be a starter until he was 30 years old (I don't hold Tampa against him in that sense). Led the league in passer rating 6 times, and was consistently getting over 100 in passer ratings at a time when other top QBs weren't consistently topping 90. He also had a running ability that was as good as just about any of the top guys, so that gives him a bump on the scorecard.

Gase TRIED to throw Peytie under the bus...but the bus flew by before he could finish the deed...

There it goes!!!!...

That gif will never, evah get old.

My Top Ten Passers with allowances for pre-dome era, QBs calling their own plays, and before the NFL castrated defensive backs. This list is a situational football list. Who would I want as the quarterback at their 20-yard-line with two minutes to go, three timeouts, and needing a touchdown to win the game:

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Sammy Baugh
3. Otto Graham
4. Joe Montana
5. Dan Marino
6. Tom Brady
7. John Elway
8. Peyton Manning
9. Troy Aikman
10. Warren Moon

The one guy that is probably ranked too low on my list is Dan Marino. Bart Starr and Terry Bradshaw don't make my top ten passers because they relied so much on an overpowering running game and elite (for their time) receivers to get chunks of yardage in these situations. Not tough to leave out: Brett Favre. It always seemed 50-50 that he would throw a stupid interception at times like this. Tough to leave out: Staubach and Jim Kelly.

If I had a category for running quarterbacks, Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Roger Staubach and Randall Cunningham would head up the list with Brett Favre in the middle of the pack. Brady would be at the bottom but would only make it for his willingness to sneak it on 4th down.

If we're talking pure passers and the conditions they had to work with, then it's Marino > the rest. IMO. His was still the greatest single season, IMO, all things considered.

goheels22002 said:

Brady would be at the bottom but would only make it for his willingness to sneak it on 4th down.

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But, I still love that juke of Ulacher. it might be his only real career running highlight. Though, plent of others that show his toughness (like the goalline where someone -- forgot right now) was trying to rip his head off backwards after he crossed the goal line)

As far as individual stats go for QB, TD/INT ration is the most important. Marino's is less than 1.7. Some of you are rating him far too high.

goheels22002 said:

My Top Ten Passers with allowances for pre-dome era, QBs calling their own plays, and before the NFL castrated defensive backs. This list is a situational football list. Who would I want as the quarterback at their 20-yard-line with two minutes to go, three timeouts, and needing a touchdown to win the game:

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Sammy Baugh
3. Otto Graham
4. Joe Montana
5. Dan Marino
6. Tom Brady
7. John Elway
8. Peyton Manning
9. Troy Aikman
10. Warren Moon

The one guy that is probably ranked too low on my list is Dan Marino. Bart Starr and Terry Bradshaw don't make my top ten passers because they relied so much on an overpowering running game and elite (for their time) receivers to get chunks of yardage in these situations. Not tough to leave out: Brett Favre. It always seemed 50-50 that he would throw a stupid interception at times like this. Tough to leave out: Staubach and Jim Kelly.

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Agree with the top 4, not so much on the rest. Starr & Staubach should absolutely be in the top 10,
ahead of Brady (who should be ahead of Marino), and PayaTon should absolutely not be in it.

Galeb said:

As far as individual stats go for QB, TD/INT ration is the most important. Marino's is less than 1.7. Some of you are rating him far too high.

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You also need to take into consideration how drastically the passing game has changed over the last ten to fifteen years. As a result, those changes in the game have forever altered any meaningful career statistical comparison of passers or receivers who did not play the game at the same time. While Marino's career 1.67 TD/INT ratio is indeed barely ahead of David Garrard and Andy Dalton, it is also true that only two quarterbacks who played when he did - Steve Young and Joe Montana - rank better. Despite the difference in the way the game is now played and officiated, he still ranks 16th all-time in this category.

In my opinion, the best way to compare a player statistically is to see how he ranked against his peers, rather than attempting to use career totals and rank across different eras. A player that consistently outperformed his peers says a lot more to me than one who happens to rank (at the moment) very high on the all-time career leader board. Case in point would be Vinny Testaverde, Drew Bledsoe and Kerry Collins all finishing their careers ranked in the top ten all-time in passing yardage; nobody considers any of them to be one of the ten best quarterbacks of all time.

Alltime Leaders - Passing Touchdown/Interception Ratio

NFL Career Passing Yards Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com

jmt57 said:

You also need to take into consideration how drastically the passing game has changed over the last ten to fifteen years. As a result, those changes in the game have forever altered any meaningful career statistical comparison of passers or receivers who did not play the game at the same time. While Marino's career 1.67 TD/INT ratio is indeed barely ahead of David Garrard and Andy Dalton, it is also true that only two quarterbacks who played when he did - Steve Young and Joe Montana - rank better. Despite the difference in the way the game is now played and officiated, he still ranks 16th all-time in this category.

In my opinion, the best way to compare a player statistically is to see how he ranked against his peers, rather than attempting to use career totals and rank across different eras. A player that consistently outperformed his peers says a lot more to me than one who happens to rank (at the moment) very high on the all-time career leader board. Case in point would be Vinny Testaverde, Drew Bledsoe and Kerry Collins all finishing their careers ranked in the top ten all-time in passing yardage; nobody considers any of them to be one of the ten best quarterbacks of all time.

Alltime Leaders - Passing Touchdown/Interception Ratio

NFL Career Passing Yards Leaders - Pro-Football-Reference.com

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Montana was one of his closest peers and he was close to 2/1. Combined with his lack of Lombardies, it is obvious that some of you have Marino rated far too high. I'm not saying Marino wasn't great, but he certainly isn't top 5.

RelocatedPatFan said:

But, I still love that juke of Ulacher. it might be his only real career running highlight. Though, plent of others that show his toughness (like the goalline where someone -- forgot right now) was trying to rip his head off backwards after he crossed the goal line)

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I believe it was Polamalu.

Jackson 2 said:

I believe it was Polamalu.

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Danger Zone said:

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Urlacher was never the same after that. Thanks for posting the vid. That is one of my favorite Brady plays of all time!

Danger Zone said:

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I meant that I believed it was Polamalu who ripped Brady's head on QB sneak on the goal line.

Who is the biggest choker ever?

Depends on your perspective.

If you drop the HoF criteria and just list pretty good QBs - I have one to have suffered a lot.

Tony Romo.

Jackson 2 said:

I meant that I believed it was Polamalu who ripped Brady's head on QB sneak on the goal line.

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Yeah, it was definitely that bum Polamalu, who is supposedly a much better person than that. I'm going to give him the doubt this one time and chalk it up to instinctual movement, in the hopes that he was just trying to keep him out of the EZ---otherwise, it really was quite dirty.

RecoveringCowboy said:

Who is the biggest choker ever?

Depends on your perspective.

If you drop the HoF criteria and just list pretty good QBs - I have one to have suffered a lot.

Tony Romo.

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Personally, I find it a bit more difficult to try and rank Tony Romo due to the fact that he plays on a joke of an organization. No doubt he's choked many times and make some serious mistakes, but sometimes he is portrayed a bit unfairly based on that reputation. The loss to DEN last year is a decent example, when the rookie TE ran the wrong route, yet everyone blamed Romo--who actually had a pretty good game, and kept them in it to begin with.

I definitely agree that he's on the list of choke artists, but I wouldn't have him in the top spot myself. This may sound a bit off, but I see Romo in the same kind of category as I do Brett Favre; which is a guy who is too much of a gunslinger, and attempts to make plays when they just aren't there. Sometimes they end up being very nice, and others they really bite you in the ass. Unfortunately for Romo, those bad decisions are the ones that define him. I'd be interested in seeing what he'd be like with some more patience and proper decision making, along with a decent RB, because my guess would be a fairly good QB.

^ Parcells published some advice for him, and seems to have ignored it....Big Bill likes more caution.

I agree, it's hard to know what blame to place on Romo on that circus known as the Cowboys.

Neither will happen, but...

• If he played for another team, would Romo actually look better? Probably, although doubt he would be top-5
• How would Peyton Manning do on the Cowboys? Doubt he would advance past the Divisional round.

Of the three people kicked around by Cowboy fans, Romo is the only one I consider good/competent...Jason Garrett I don't hate as he is taking the money from an owner that fantasizes he is the next Sean Peyton...their root problem is Jerry Jones obviously.

RecoveringCowboy said:

^ Parcells published some advice for him, and seems to have ignored it....Big Bill likes more caution.

I agree, it's hard to know what blame to place on Romo on that circus known as the Cowboys.

Neither will happen, but...

• If he played for another team, would Romo actually look better? Probably, although doubt he would be top-5
• How would Peyton Manning do on the Cowboys? Doubt he would advance past the Divisional round.

Of the three people kicked around by Cowboy fans, Romo is the only one I consider good/competent...Jason Garrett I don't hate as he is taking the money from an owner that fantasizes he is the next Sean Peyton...their root problem is Jerry Jones obviously.

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I agree 100%. I married into a family of Cboy fans, so since my wife supports my Pats, I make about as much of an honest attempt as possible to follow her team when the games are on. Believe me, it is difficult. I actually had to start out by placing online bets on the other team for the first couple of years, so that I could secretly root for something to pass the time. It's awful, I know--but I just couldn't stomach so many mistakes and incompetent coaching. I think I have become quite spoiled.

I do believe that there's no doubt that Romo is a top 10-12 QB in this league though. To me, that's not even up for debate, although many who don't follow him too closely wouldn't agree. He actually has an alltime QB rating around 95-96, which is exactly where Brady lies. To take it one step further, he has a pretty strong 2/1 TD to INT ratio, with around a 2/3 completion rate. I do agree with you that he'd be better on another team, although he still obviously needs to learn how to make better decisions no matter what to be considered for any kind of top 6-8 talk.

Until Jerry Jones can realize that he needs to either 1) hire a great disciplinarian coach and step away or 2) get a real GM and leave him alone---the team will be nothing more than a divisional playoff round contender.

supafly said:

Until Jerry Jones can realize that he needs to either 1) hire a great disciplinarian coach and step away or 2) get a real GM and leave him alone---the team will be nothing more than a divisional playoff round contender.

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Even since the split with Jimmy Johnson, Jerry has voices in his head he MUST be the sole mastermind to winning the next SB for the Cowboys, so fans know he - not Jimmy was responsible for the three championships in the 90's. Jerry must be the only person on the planet unaware that each season reinforces he is a football idiot. I'm amazed their fan base has not crumbled yet, but think it will happen eventually.

Trivial question: Just before Jerry and Jimmy split, Jerry was miffed when he was not included talking to an NFL HC in 1994 - who? Answer is in this long definitive read on the demons in Jerry Jones > The Devil and Mr. Jones | Texas Monthly