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World Cup Thread.


I watched the American kickball team in a couple of its games. It's sort of like baseball, where you can get plenty of work done while it's on and not miss anything. The only time you have to look up is when the announcer's voice gets excited, which happens every 10 minutes or so.

What they need to do is cut the field in half and THEN you'd have an exciting sport to watch. :D


Yes, and if they do away with all the time between plays in football that too will become an interesting sport to watch, and for basketball they could raise the rim to 14 feet and make the court three times as big, that way it won't look like nurf basketball in the living room.
 
Aaaaaand my World Cup viewing is done. Take it easy, fellas and good luck to your respective countries.

You are seriously going to miss some good games.

Every single team left have incredibly skilled players and play an entertaining brand of futbol besides Costa Rica.

In all honesty, watching USMNT vs Belgium/Germany was like watching a Div III team vs a Div I team. They just don't have the technically skilled players. The only player who are on the same class as any of the Belgium and German players is Howard. Any of those other players besides Howard would not have made it onto any of the top class national teams.

I support team USA, but watching them try to keep possession made me cringe.
 
I believe USA National Team will come much stronger next World Cup, maybe this was the turning point for more investment on soccer in America.
 
IMO he will be named the goalie on the all toutnament team, despite not making the quarterfinals.

Quite possibly -- but I'm not putting him ahead of my man, Guillermo Ochoa:

 
Quite possibly -- but I'm not putting him ahead of my man, Guillermo Ochoa:




I agree that Ochoa is a really good goalie, and so are the Nigerian and Belgian goalkeepers, however imo no goalie has put on the performance Howard has in this WC. He was under pressure every game all game and was stellar throughout. He's the only player from the US who should make the all tournament team but imo he more than deserves it.
 
I believe USA National Team will come much stronger next World Cup, maybe this was the turning point for more investment on soccer in America.


It all depends upon the decisions the US Soccer federation and Klinsmann make in the coming months, as i have said in other posts there is a real schism between them and the role of the MLS is the central issue. I have a really bad feeling Lalas and the the MLS are going to try and push him out the door and gain control over the program, if they win out then I think it will set the national team back for many years to come. If Klinsmann maintains control and they follow his suggestions for building US Soccer i think the future will be bright.
 
It all depends upon the decisions the US Soccer federation and Klinsmann make in the coming months, as i have said in other posts there is a real schism between them and the role of the MLS is the central issue. I have a really bad feeling Lalas and the the MLS are going to try and push him out the door and gain control over the program, if they win out then I think it will set the national team back for many years to come. If Klinsmann maintains control and they follow his suggestions for building US Soccer i think the future will be bright.

Who makes the decision, gulati?
 
Another user suggested a move about the months when the league is played, that's very important. As far as I know in America there's always a big league being played, sometimes the end of one connected to the beginning of the other which is awesome, you guys never run out of sports like the soccer only countries when the National League is over.

Soccer is better played in summer but in Europe they play a lot in the elements and that brings different things to the game. I think it's cool as well except when you block a bomb with your hamstring or back, then it hurts like 10x more than the same in a hot weather.
 
Who makes the decision, gulati?


I honestly don't have the answer to that off of the top of my head but Lalas kept alluding to decisions that would be made after the World Cup and he certainly implied he would be part of that process, and Garber when interviewed made it clear that they are at odds with Klinsmann over the role of the MLS and player development. And while I have no idea what role Arena has in US Soccer any more he is on record as wanting the entire team to come from the MLS, in which case the US Team's best players will be spending their days preparing against Sporting KC and the Revs while the rest of the world play in EUAFA and the best leagues on earth. That's like preparing for Manning while playing against Tebow.

I would like nothing better than for the MLS to develop to the point where the level of play was at a level with the best Euro Leagues but right now they are not even in the discussion. they need to take a page from the NHL and scout the international youth programs and draft young stars from those regions, and they really need to build a comprehensive feeder program that develops players to the highest level, Imo Klinsmann knows what this will take and is the right guy to lead it but the decisions are not in his hands alone, despite his title.
 
Mike - Ospina has been the best keeper on view so far, IMO.

Good to see so much enthusiasm from you guys about the upcoming games, the weekend should be special. Football is a game of speed of thought and skill, when it's combined with physical prowess then it's an incredible spectacle. Even so, there's a long history of small guys dominating the sport. Indeed, the best player in the world over the last 5 years or so is only 5'7. Maradona was even smaller in height (although a bit thicker in the trunk) and it's the same throughout time - Pele, Dalglish, Best, Eusebio, Garrincha, Platini, Cruyff, Jairzinho, Zico etc etc I really could go on and on - all of them under six foot, most of them well under, yet all of them were breath-taking.
 
Another user suggested a move about the months when the league is played, that's very important. As far as I know in America there's always a big league being played, sometimes the end of one connected to the beginning of the other which is awesome, you guys never run out of sports like the soccer only countries when the National League is over.

Soccer is better played in summer but in Europe they play a lot in the elements and that brings different things to the game. I think it's cool as well except when you block a bomb with your hamstring or back, then it hurts like 10x more than the same in a hot weather.


They can't compete with the fall and winter sports so they are pretty much forced to play in what is the offseason for the rest of the world. Overall the MLS has done a good job os slowly building and they will need to continue on that path until they can turn the corner and become a world class league, but it is a long road to hoe.
 
Mike - Ospina has been the best keeper on view so far, IMO.

Good to see so much enthusiasm from you guys about the upcoming games, the weekend should be special. Football is a game of speed of thought and skill, when it's combined with physical prowess then it's an incredible spectacle. Even so, there's a long history of small guys dominating the sport. Indeed, the best player in the world over the last 5 years or so is only 5'7. Maradona was even smaller in height (although a bit thicker in the trunk) and it's the same throughout time - Pele, Dalglish, Best, Eusebio, Garrincha, Platini, Cruyff, Jairzinho, Zico etc etc I really could go on and on - all of them under six foot, most of them well under, yet all of them were breath-taking.


I'm really looking forward to Brazil/Colombia, I am hoping Rodriquez bags a couple and knocks Brazil out, that will make the tourney wide open.
 
LeBron could absolutely play American Football. As a TE, he'd be unstoppable. As a matter of fact, he used to play football. That Wade to LeBron full court alley-oop that they had a couple of years ago was basically a deep post...

The thing with freakish athletes like this is they always end up in whatever sport pays the most.
Yes, and if they do away with all the time between plays in football that too will become an interesting sport to watch, and for basketball they could raise the rim to 14 feet and make the court three times as big, that way it won't look like nurf basketball in the living room.
I have no doubt that soccer experts here will extoll the strategic intricacies of midfield play and many "finer" points of the game lost to the average American spectator. But it's not much of a stretch to understand how those of us who didn't grow up with it as part of our cultural heritage find it exceedingly dull. I'm not saying there has to be a shot on goal every 30 seconds, but the random back-and-forth on the field's middle half, comprising 90-percent of the "action," seldom amounts to much of consequence. Perhaps you can share what's at least interesting to you about that.

Also, it's the only sport I know of (aside from distance running or cycling) where upper-body strength and skill is a veritable non-factor. And don't get me started on the ridiculous faux-injury diving that goes on. Don't get me wrong, I WANTED to get excited about World Cup soccer for the sake of following the U.S. team. But save for a few brief seconds here and there, it's just not a very interesting or exciting game. I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

I do recall years back when there was a professional indoor soccer league that had plenty of great action -- players playing the ball off walls, plenty of shots and final scores like 9-8.
 
You are seriously going to miss some good games.

Every single team left have incredibly skilled players and play an entertaining brand of futbol besides Costa Rica.

In all honesty, watching USMNT vs Belgium/Germany was like watching a Div III team vs a Div I team. They just don't have the technically skilled players. The only player who are on the same class as any of the Belgium and German players is Howard. Any of those other players besides Howard would not have made it onto any of the top class national teams.

I support team USA, but watching them try to keep possession made me cringe.

I wouldn't say that. A DIII team doesn't take a D1 team to extra time.

I'm telling you right now, Dempsey could walk right into the Portuguese starting lineup and play upfront with Ronaldo and Nani, and that would be a serious upgrade.
 
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http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/jul/02/zico-world-cup-2014-team-of-tournament
 
Also, it's the only sport I know of (aside from distance running or cycling) where upper-body strength and skill is a veritable non-factor......

Tune, you're one of my fave posters on this board, but you couldn't have written a more ignorant sentence if you tried.

If you had watched only 10 minutes of just one game the past 2 weeks you would have seen multiple instances of contested headers, sideline scrums, corner kick jockeying, etc where upper body strength was paramount in deciding which side controlled the ball.

It's as obvious as understanding that height is important in basketball. Soccer players who give away upper body strength advantage to their opponents get run over very quickly in contested moments.

You have confused not being able to use your hands on the ball with not being able to use upper body strength.
 
I wouldn't say that. A DIII team doesn't take a D1 team to extra time.

I'm telling you right now, Dempsey could walk right into the Portuguese starting lineup and play upfront with Ronaldo and Nani, and that would be a serious upgrade.

Agreed. While Condon's overall point isn't wrong, America does have some players who could start on a lot of WC teams. In addition to Howard, Dempsey could start on a lot of good teams, just as he started on a good EPL team. When he's in form, Bradley could be a borderline starter on some good national teams. With the way that they played over the past couple of weeks, you can also make a strong case that Jermaine Jones and DeAndre Yedlin could have been valuable pieces even to some much better teams.

I'd say that the analogy is much closer to DI vs DI-AA. There's still a large gap between the elite teams and the USA. It's most noticeable when you look at our ability to maintain possession, due to the fact that, in general, the American players just don't have a great first touch and don't make long passes with very much precision. The future is bright, though. I'm already looking forward to a 2018 squad that'll hopefully still feature Howard, as well as a 24 year old Yedlin, a 23 year old Julian Green, a 25 year old John Brooks, a 29 year old Omar Gonzalez, a 28 year old Jozy Altidore, a 27 year old Aron Johannsson, 30 year old Fabian Johnson, 30 year old Michael Bradley, 31 year old Matt Besler, 31 year old Alejandro Bedoya, 32 year old Geoff Cameron (who's better than he looked in this world cup), etc.

Sure, Beckerman, Jones, Dempsey, Beasley, and a few others have probably played their last World Cup match, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, because there's reason to believe that the guys coming up behind them may end up being better than they ever were. Of the guys who are on the wrong side of 30, Dempsey and Donovan are the only ones who are skilled enough that I can foresee there being much difficulty replacing them. And even then, I could just as easily see their replacements being even better, because the pipeline for young American forwards is easily the most stocked that it's ever been. Beasley, Dempsey, and Donovan coming up around the same time in the late 90s was definitely a boon for the USMNT, but if we're looking at pure potential, the trio of Julian Green, Joe Gallardo, and Paul Arriola is even more promising than they were.

We have prospects at pretty much every position--except goalie, and Howard might have one more WC left in him--who could very well become better than today's guys, sooner rather than later. Maybe much better, the potential is there. There's a very real possibility that this is just the next step in a process where we're getting closer to something big. This was the first WC that I've watched where I felt like we could compete in any game we played. Even the best teams weren't likely to humiliate us, even if beating us remained overwhelmingly likely. Maybe the next step is that we go into every match with a legitimate shot at beating anyone. With the young talent that we have coming up, I don't think it's pure wishful thinking to see us getting there. Personally, I know I'll be watching Green, Yedlin, Brooks, Gallardo, Arriola, and Emerson Hyndman closely over the next couple of years. Some of those guys will be household names in four years, and for good reason.
 
but the random back-and-forth on the field's middle half, comprising 90-percent of the "action," seldom amounts to much of consequence. Perhaps you can share what's at least interesting to you about that.

You could say the same thing about hockey, baseball, or football, really. Learning to appreciate a play that has no real tangible consequences--say, an inside fastball that sets up a changeup--is pretty much a prerequisite for enjoying baseball in any capacity at all.

On the vast majority of football plays, no points are scored. But when you watch it long enough and closely enough, you learn to appreciate how offenses space the field, how they run to set up the pass, pass to set up the run, give looks designed to fool the defense, etc. You also learn to appreciate line play, the ways in which defenses mask their intentions to confuse quarterbacks, stunts, faking pressure from one side then bringing it from the other, etc. And as much as anything else, you appreciate the pure athleticism that's on display. When I watch Chandler Jones explode off the LOS, use his crazy arm length to keep the tackle at bay, then twist inward to create the shortest possible path to the QB, I enjoy the hell out of that. It's a combination of inhuman athleticism and insanely refined skill that's impossible not to appreciate, once you've developed the understanding of the game to see it.

Now look at this:

You're watching a guy with among the best balance, agility and coordination that the human race has ever produced, displaying a skill that he's spent his entire life perfecting.

As far as the 90+ percent of the action that occurs in the midfield, it's something that you have to watch the sport to learn to appreciate, although basketball fans seem to 'get it' quickly and more intuitively than others who are coming in blind (I assume this is part of why I came around to liking it pretty quickly). Next time you watch a soccer game, try concentrating solely on three things:

1. Passing guys open: In the NFL, everyone's favorite pass is the deep bomb. The soccer equivalent is the through pass, and it's just as fun to watch. As an America fan, we've unfortunately never had a midfielder who can nail these consistently (few teams do), but they're pretty fantastic to watch. In general, all passing in the midfield is done to manipulate spacing, create gaps in the defense, and ultimately send a runner through those gaps in a way that allows him to receive a lob or through pass. the most entertaining passes to watch, and the ones that are the most likely to yield big results, involve passing forward to where you expect that your teammate is going to be.

2. Spacing: Closely related to 1. Much like triangle principles in the NFL passing game, and pretty much everything relating to running offenses in the NBA, soccer, especially in the midfield is all about spacing. If you watch much hockey, you're already plenty familiar with offsides, and in soccer it plays an even bigger role. Especially with strikers that rely on speed and quickness, you'll frequently see them make 'runs', where they're trying to spring themselves past the defensive back line, and time it so that they're still onsides at the moment that the ball leaves the passer's foot (and not a moment longer). To execute this perfectly, there are a lot of moving parts that need to come together, and it all starts in that 90% of the action that you mentioned earlier in the midfield. All of those passes are made to try to get the defense off-balance, force players out of position while covering for each other, and ultimately opening up seams through which you can deliver through passes. Whether it's through a series of short passes that pull a defense progressively further off balance, or through one perfectly placed cross that punishes a defense that's overreacted and crowded one side of the field (an awful lot like a reverse in football), it's something that, once you understand the underlying philosophy behind what they're trying to accomplish, watching the players execute that philosophy at full speed is something that you can't help but appreciate.

3. First touch: If you were to watch a game tomorrow, this is what you could probably notice and appreciate right away, without another thought. One of the USMNT's biggest weaknesses, IMO, was that most of the players lacked a strong first touch. When receiving a pass, world class players ofentimes won't even break stride. They corral the ball pretty much effortlessly, and go about doing whatever they were doing. They never stop, never give the defense a chance to recover, and by keeping the ball in motion at full speed, they just about guarantee that the defense will eventually break until/unless one of the defenders make a great play in his own right to win possession. Contrasted with most of the USMNT's inability to master this skill--the ball frequently comes to basically a full stop following every pass--despite spending their entire lives working towards it, guys like Robben, Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic and Neymar become even more impressive.

Also, it's the only sport I know of (aside from distance running or cycling) where upper-body strength and skill is a veritable non-factor. And don't get me started on the ridiculous faux-injury diving that goes on. Don't get me wrong, I WANTED to get excited about World Cup soccer for the sake of following the U.S. team. But save for a few brief seconds here and there, it's just not a very interesting or exciting game. I'm willing to be educated otherwise.

I'm with you on the faux-injury BS, and I hate it too. There are a few things that I can't stand about soccer, and that's definitely one of them. The ludicrous tiebreaker system is another, which somehow manages not to use head to head record as a tiebreaker, despite that being the obvious first choice. If Ghana had beaten Portugal and advanced over the US on goal differential, despite the USA's head to head win, that might have been enough to make me swear the sport off altogether.

Re: upper body strength, though, I'd counter that it's about as important in soccer as it is in basketball. A lot of the game is played in the air, whether it's corners, crosses, or playing lob passes. If you're lacking in upper body strength, your man will get position on you. If you're on offense, he'll take the ball. If you're on defense, he'll either get numbers forward or get a goal-scoring opportunity. On Belgium's first goal yesterday, the defensive breakdown happened when an American (I forget who) challenged Lukaku, and failed so badly that he fell over, springing Lukaku loose for a run deep into the attacking third, which led to a relatively easy assist. Granted, part of this is a depth issue--if Lukaku was American, he'd be the best striker we've ever had, and he's worlds better than Altidore, but Belgium didn't even bring him on until extra time, which allowed him the huge advantage of being fresh while everyone else had 90 minutes of action weighing on them--but it's also a strength issue. Lukaku is 6'3", 220 pounds. He's a big man, and that's why he was able to shrug off the American defender so forcefully that he took him out of the play altogether.

Generally speaking, to be a good defender you have to have the balance and upper body strength to be able to body someone up and move them off the ball. To be a good forward, you have to either be quick enough to create and operate in space or be strong enough to hold your ground (in some cases both). There's a reason why world class soccer players look like this.

Sure, they're not nearly as jacked as NFL players, but that's because the sport isn't conducive to that. When 8 of your 11 starters are expected to run around the field for 90 mostly uninterrupted minutes, stamina is going to become relatively more valuable than raw stength, in comparison to football. But make no mistake, a player without upper body strength will, best case scenario, be operating at a major disadvantage that basically forces him to be a winger and specialize in operating in the open spaces on either corner of the field. If he doesn't have the top-line speed, agility, and technical skills to operate with a great deal of effectiveness out wide, a player without upper body strength most likely won't be seeing the field at all.
 
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Agreed. While Condon's overall point isn't wrong, America does have some players who could start on a lot of WC teams. In addition to Howard, Dempsey could start on a lot of good teams, just as he started on a good EPL team. When he's in form, Bradley could be a borderline starter on some good national teams. With the way that they played over the past couple of weeks, you can also make a strong case that Jermaine Jones and DeAndre Yedlin could have been valuable pieces even to some much better teams.

I'd say that the analogy is much closer to DI vs DI-AA. There's still a large gap between the elite teams and the USA. It's most noticeable when you look at our ability to maintain possession, due to the fact that, in general, the American players just don't have a great first touch and don't make long passes with very much precision. The future is bright, though. I'm already looking forward to a 2018 squad that'll hopefully still feature Howard, as well as a 24 year old Yedlin, a 23 year old Julian Green, a 25 year old John Brooks, a 29 year old Omar Gonzalez, a 28 year old Jozy Altidore, a 27 year old Aron Johannsson, 30 year old Fabian Johnson, 30 year old Michael Bradley, 31 year old Matt Besler, 31 year old Alejandro Bedoya, 32 year old Geoff Cameron (who's better than he looked in this world cup), etc.

Sure, Beckerman, Jones, Dempsey, Beasley, and a few others have probably played their last World Cup match, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, because there's reason to believe that the guys coming up behind them may end up being better than they ever were. Of the guys who are on the wrong side of 30, Dempsey and Donovan are the only ones who are skilled enough that I can foresee there being much difficulty replacing them. And even then, I could just as easily see their replacements being even better, because the pipeline for young American forwards is easily the most stocked that it's ever been. Beasley, Dempsey, and Donovan coming up around the same time in the late 90s was definitely a boon for the USMNT, but if we're looking at pure potential, the trio of Julian Green, Joe Gallardo, and Paul Arriola is even more promising than they were.

We have prospects at pretty much every position--except goalie, and Howard might have one more WC left in him--who could very well become better than today's guys, sooner rather than later. Maybe much better, the potential is there. There's a very real possibility that this is just the next step in a process where we're getting closer to something big. This was the first WC that I've watched where I felt like we could compete in any game we played. Even the best teams weren't likely to humiliate us, even if beating us remained overwhelmingly likely. Maybe the next step is that we go into every match with a legitimate shot at beating anyone. With the young talent that we have coming up, I don't think it's pure wishful thinking to see us getting there. Personally, I know I'll be watching Green, Yedlin, Brooks, Gallardo, Arriola, and Emerson Hyndman closely over the next couple of years. Some of those guys will be household names in four years, and for good reason.

How can you say some of our players can start on other teams when it's clear as day our players can't maintain possession because of awful first touch and inaccurate passing? Those same qualities are what those other teams judge their players on.

Even watching a low level table team in the EPL like QPR, they can maintain possession and mount a buildup against elite clubs like ManCity or Chelsea.

Sorry, but what team USA showed against German, Belgium, and for the better part of Ghana was literally a DIII team vs a DI team.

Dempsey was not a first choice his one year with Tottenham. He started a few games due to injuries to other players, but he was pretty disappointing nonetheless and that's why he was sold.

Bradley was not getting playing time at Roma that's why he was sold to Toronto. I don't understand the hype around him. He makes some decent passes when no one is around him. But when he is pressured he panics and loses possession way too easily. He was God awful in this tournament.

Donovan is probably the most technically skilled US player in recent memory. Too bad he was left off. He could have been even better had he decided to ply his trade in Europe. Damn shame.

That being said, I think we are on the right track. Klinnsman knows what it takes to compete against elite players. He wants his players to play in Europe against top competition. We have some young guys who should be better come 2018 if they continue to play against elite competition. Bradley needs to go back to Europe to a mid table team where he can regularly play in one of the four elite leagues and work on his ball control and possession. Altidore needs to get out of Sunderland where he is getting no service whatsoever. Or he needs to develop his dribbling and take guys on. Green is on the right track. Yedlin looks decent. Cap Gideon Zelalem. Do whatever it takes to get him to play for the US. Find other young players like him and Green. And push our young MLS players to go to Europe if there is an opportunity.
 
Just copped Fifa '11 pre-owned for 4.99. Now that I'm a sawccer expert n all
 


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