Which player are you most excited about?

Revis

Dobson

Collins

In that order.

Deus Irae said:

He's good on the chase. He's lousy head on. I expect that the Patriots will hope he shows improvement at the heavier weight, and will also scheme to keep him free as much as possible. If that doesn't work, he'll end up as a sub player instead of a 3-down guy.

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I will take your word for it on his play. I honestly did not watch him closely in run defense.

I for one see potential for Collins to be utilized more as a sub player with a player like Steve Beauharnais seeing reps in a base defense as the MLB.

Deus Irae said:

My point was that a better (to date) player was allowed to walk away. In the context of picking up that 5th year option, which was being discussed, that's important.

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I think he was allowed to walk because he was a locker room cancer and the last remaining member of that 2010 Florida draft class.

Danger Zone said:

Yes.. all the Patriot fans with unrealistic or unrealised hopes should all just go kill themselves.

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Taking it a little too seriously, lol.

strngplyr said:

Taking it a little too seriously, lol.

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Wait, I thought we were playing the game where we take an obvious bit of hyperbole from the opposing side and pretend it was meant literally.

We're still playing right?

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Jamie Collins eyed as breakout Performer | espnBoston

Is Jamie Collins the Next Great Breakout Linebacker? | Michael Schottey - Bleacher Report

Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins Among Patriots Destined To Break Out In 2014 (Mailbag) | NESN.com

Sometimes hype is exaggerated... and sometimes it's a discussion about a player's potential.

Seeing as this was a thread titled "Which player are you most excited about?" I didn't realise there were right and wrong answers..

Danger Zone said:

Wait, I thought we were playing the game where we take an obvious bit of hyperbole from the opposing side and pretend it was meant literally.

We're still playing right?

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http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...3885/jamie-collins-eyes-as-breakout-performer

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2109168-is-jamie-collins-the-next-great
-breakout-linebacker

http://nesn.com/2014/03/logan-ryan-...triots-destined-to-break-out-in-2014-mailbag/

Sometimes hype is exaggerated... and sometimes it's a discussion about a player's potential.

Seeing as this was a thread titled "Which player are you most excited about?" I didnt realise there were right and wrong answers..

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Myself and Deus were responding to a poster who said Jamie Collins was the best Linebacker on the team, not a potentially great player, he proclaimed him the best on the roster.

Breakout candidate is fine. I believe he is currently the best poised to break out on the team. I don't think he's the best LB on the team.

There certainly is a wrong answer when you state that, and that isn't just our opinions. That doesn't mean it can't change after this year, though.

strngplyr said:

Myself and Deus were responding to a poster who said Jamie Collins was the best Linebacker on the team, not a potentially great player, he proclaimed him the best on the roster.

Breakout candidate is fine. I believe he is currently the best poised to break out on the team. I don't think he's the best LB on the team.

There certainly is a wrong answer when you state that, and that isn't just our opinions. That doesn't mean it can't change after this year, though.

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Deus was already in a "conversation" about the invalidity of the Collins hype before that poster with 8 posts came along and made that outrageous statement.

.. a statement so outrageous that I assume that poster simply left out a big quantifier when making it (or Mayo's existence).

Deus' anti-hype commentary is very much in keeping with his stated views. I guarantee he wasn't limiting it to that specific poster... but to the Collins hype in general.

That said, I agree with everything else you said in this post. My goal was ultimately to express the opinion that Collins is in fact very much worthy of hype and excitement.

I would definitely put him in the top few players of being excited about, myself--but I can also appreciate those who are far from sold just yet, as the majority of highlights came from the one playoff game. Hopefully, the additional opportunities may allow him to continue to grow.The good thing is that he did seem to progress very nicely in certain areas like responsibilities/assignments (in my opinion) as the year went on.

He's obviously extremely talented, quick, and athletic. It will be an important year for him, and we should be excited about the potential that this defense has. Hopefully, the health situation will be much better, as that may be our single largest obstacle to being a pretty good defense.

If Jamie Collins continues to improve--watch out! It may lead to great things.

Brady6 said:

I think he was allowed to walk because he was a locker room cancer and the last remaining member of that 2010 Florida draft class.

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Meyer really pulled a fast one on ole BB, didn't he?

Collins, Revis and Easley.

In that order. This defense will be scary good... IF these 3 are the players we hope they are.

I actually think Beauharnais can become reliable in pass coverage. He could be better in coverage than Mayo and he plays faster than a 4.8. So I wouldn't call it Beauharnais excitement but he will exceed expectations. Of all young players ready to breakout, Collins, Dobson and Kenbrell Thompkins excite the most. Collins could become an elite passrusher while Dobson and Thompkins have 4.4 speed, quick route runners, and highpoint passes nicely.

However I was turned on the idea of signing Jermichael Finley. When you think bout his skill set it gets exciting. I don't recall which article. However he is a better blocker than Hernandez,taller and as good after the catch while longer and tougher over the middle than Hernandez. He also uses his 6'5 250 lb frame and nearly 35' arms to highpoint passes and block out dbs. He has seam speed and only he's only 27. His own docs and the NFL has cleared him. I didn't know that til last week. He is a real mismatch for DBs and LBs. Not to mention we now have deep threats in KT,Dobson,and Boyce to open the middle of the field and those 15-20 yard passes while a deep threat himself.

IF OUR YOUNG WRs GET UP TO SPEED AND WE ADD FINLEY TO DO THE 2TE SETS AGAIN.THINK ABOUT IT GRONK AND FINLEY AT TE, KT AND DOBSON AT Z AND X POSITION'S WITH AN INCREASINGLY DANGEROUS PASSCATCHING RB IN VEREEN WITH SUB 4.5 SPEED HIMSELF AND AWESOME FROM THE BACKFIELD(1000yrd threat). Barring injury isn't that as dynamic as anything the Broncos can throw at a defense? Exciting

I'm also excited about Fleming taking over for Mankins eventually. The most powerful OT in college outside of Robinson. MY lack OT feet but moves well for any guard. At 6'5 330 he can eliminate all pressure up the middle. Cannon takes RG and Halapio and Stork competes for center job. Many scouts saw Halapio an NFL center. He has the power to handle NTs man on man. That's a formidable OLiNE. Throw in Gronk and Finley's strong blocking with their pass catching ability and speed and run or pass that's mismatches that scores points on NFL Defenses. BTW factor in deep threats in Dobson and KT the offense has lacked in when Hernandez played With Edelman moving chains and that's EXCITING!

Forgot to mention, on the oline barring injury we have the best tackle tandem in the NFL. Many feel Solder takes his place this season among all pro LTs. There was a stretch last year he played like Joe Thomas and on his level but stronger run blocking many analysts pointed out. If mankind has taken a step back we're confident Fleming is a future pro bowl LG. He and Cannon can be the interiors Solder/Vollmer. Then if Stork gets slightly stronger and develops or Halapio learns center, we finally have a center who can handle big DTs and interior passrushers one on one. Fleming may lack quickness/athleticism to play RT at a pro bowl level in the NFL, but he played RT in college with that deficiency and NEVER got beat for sacks. However he has plenty quickness/athleticism for a guard in the NFL. Then factor in his elite power and how he knows how to not get beat as he has proven at RT and he has what it takes to be a 6'5 330 lb long armed pro bowl caliber NFL guard. This online is the best we ever fielded with potential to be the best in the NFL. How does that not excite

PatFanCraig said:

Collins could become an elite passrusher while Dobson and Thompkins have4.4 speed, quick route runners, and highpoint passes nicely.

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Thompkins doesn't exactly have "4.4" speed in too many situations that we've seen here. He's actually much closer to 4.6 than 4.4. I am not too hot on Thompkins myself, but the health of Aaron Dobson will likely go a long way in helping to determine his opportunities here. He only caught 11 passes in our last 12 games, so I think Kenbrell Thompkins is somewhat overrated myself. Hopefully he can continue to progress from a good mini-camp, and prove my doubts wrong.

He ran a 4.54 at the NFL combine.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Kenbrell&l=Thompkins&i=10356

PatFanCraig said:

However I was turned on the idea of signing Jermichael Finley. When you think bout his skill set it gets exciting. I don't recall which article. However he is a better blocker than Hernandez,taller and as good after the catch while longer and tougher over the middle than Hernandez. He also uses his 6'5 250 lb frame and nearly 35' arms to highpoint passes and block out dbs. He has seam speed and only he's only 27. His own docs and the NFL has cleared him. I didn't know that til last week. He is a real mismatch for DBs and LBs. Not to mention we now have deep threats in KT,Dobson,and Boyce to open the middle of the field and those 15-20 yard passes while a deep threat himself.

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No doubt. I think we all want to see an additional TE signed, since Hooman is no threat whatsoever to actually contribute in the passing game. The problem with Finley and Dustin Keller is that they both seem to be recovering from serious injuries, which is what we may be waiting to see progression-wise in the next few weeks before training camp. Having either one of Finley or Keller would certainly make our TE position much stronger than it is at the current moment.

PatFanCraig said:

I'm also excited about Fleming taking over for mankind eventually.

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I don't think that Fleming is going to take over for Mankins, since Fleming is an OT and Mankins is a guard, but I'm very hopeful of the new OL as well; and am glad that Scarnecchia was able to scout, and look for some good traits one last time here. Personally, I think all 3 OL draft picks definitely make the team, barring injuries of course.

Interesting note on Halapio being scouted as a center, as I was not previously aware of that. I doubt myself that is the position he plays here, at least in the near future anyway. It's great to see some of the versatility from these guys though. Good stuff.

PatsBoy12 said:

Meyer really pulled a fast one on ole BB, didn't he?

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No, I think that Meyer had a fast one pulled on him by his players, and cascaded information to Belichick and other NFL coaches based on what he believed.

It was a **** class though –
- Cunningham – PED suspension
- Spikes – PED suspension, sex tape, snow shoveling issues
- Hernandez – 3 counts of first degree murder

I hope mankins returns to old form. If Fleming lacks athleticism to play RT I personally would rather see him convert to guard. I would take an all pro guard over a liability Tackle every time. Besides Solder and Vollmer injury free sounds good and why leave an all pro guard on the bench while Conolly gets repeatedly ragdolled or if Mankins play declines and insist he is just a tackle. I'm for getting our best lineman on the field.

I read that the combine was a bad day for him. I read when he transferred from Jr college Thompkins was consistently 4.4-4.45 when he worked out for SEC and pac12 schools.

PatFanCraig said:

I hope mankins returns to old form. If Fleming lacks athleticism to play RT I personally would rather see him convert to guard. I would take an all pro guard over a liability Tackle every time. Besides Solder and Vollmer injury free sounds good and why leave an all pro guard on the bench while Conolly gets repeatedly ragdolled or if Mankins play declines and insist he is just a tackle. I'm for getting our best lineman on the field.

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With Mankins, Connelly, Wendell, Kline, Stork, and Halapio as interior lineman (not counting Cave), I would think that Fleming may have to make or break it on the outside--although you may end up being correct.

I personally think that some of Mankins' struggles have been somewhat overblown myself, but I get where you're coming from.

PatFanCraig said:

I hope mankins returns to old form. If Fleming lacks athleticism to play RT I personally would rather see him convert to guard. I would take an all pro guard over a liability Tackle every time. Besides Solder and Vollmer injury free sounds good and why leave an all pro guard on the bench while Conolly gets repeatedly ragdolled or if Mankins play declines and insist he is just a tackle. I'm for getting our best lineman on the field.

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I'm not sure what "old form" you're referring to, but Mankins has been the Patriots best OL essentially every year since 2006 (the year he wasn't, he was playing on a torn ACL). As for Solder and Vollmer being injury free, Vollmer's 1 for 5 when it comes to 16 game seasons.

Brady6 said:

No, I think that Meyer had a fast one pulled on him by his players, and cascaded information to Belichick and other NFL coaches based on what he believed.


- Spikes – PED suspension, sex tape, snow shoveling issues

As well as: Chat roulette addiction and tendency to expose himself, twitter obsession, questionable intelligence and attitude based on comments about coach, team, and organization, tendency to post ridiculous and controversial things in public settings, slow footed in coverage, lacks ability to play all 3 downs on a consistent basis, often guesses incorrectly on which hole to attack, has only started 60% of his games in first four years

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But he tackles well, and brings swagger to the defense.

In all seriousness, I wish that things would have worked out better with Spikes. I joke around about him and I honestly do think that he was overrated, but a big part of me still appreciated what he could bring at times on the defense.

By old form I mean Logan had a down year. I read somewhere he was near bottom of guards allowing pressure and he was part of the problem last year with up the middle pressure on Brady. He is entering years 10. If this is what mankind is now I'm confident Fleming follows suit. Logan was a tackle in college as well. I just see Fleming as a smarter version of Carl nicks. He can play RT but he will be a special guard. 6'5 330lb very long arms and very powerful. He is a devastating drive blocker. The most powerful tackle this draft not named Robinson. I saw plays he blew up his whole side of the Dline couple yards off the ball. That's rare power and explosion. He may lack athleticism at RT but has some to spare at guard. I'm all for getting our best athletes on the field at OLine. Hopefully Vollmer and Solder remain injury free. LG Mankind hopefully returns to form and coaches up Fleming. At Center Stork and Halapio can compete since many scouts saw him as a center convert. RG can see Fleming Cannon compete. That is a big powerful athletic Oline capable of dominating even dominant defenses and giving them their own medicine. If Stork lacks power at center, Halapio can line up over the nose at center and battle man up. Reports out of camp said Halapio is strong,nasty and good technique for a rookie. Big nose tackles will know they are in a scrap with Halapio. Most centers can't man up a nose in the NFL. They look to help a guard combo block. If you can find a center who can neutralize the nose its a huge win for the online. I'm rooting for Stork to continue to develop and finish growing into his frame to handle a nose tackle. But I hear and read he needs to get stronger however by all accounts. If he doesn't develop however, I hear Halapio is NFL ready to crash with nose tackles. Its a huge advantage for the oline if its center can single up and occupy the wide body of the Defense. I read Halapio handled that 360 lb McCullers dude quite easily and frustrated him single handedly with a torn pec. If our center can do that and the Tackles can handle the edge with no help, that's the base of a destructive oline and a clean pocket. On top of that our RBs are good blockers and Gronk is one of the best blockers not that the online will need it. A dominant oline means more pass catching options, a big year for Gronk and Vereen if the online plays intact. I'm rooting for stork because he was our fourth rd pick, but Halapio sounds out of the box with batteries included to plug at center and amp up. When a center can neutralize a big NT, it crushes a defensive game plan!

Let's sign Jermichael Finley a feared pass catcher and capable blocker for the 2TE sets and our offense is deeper than the Broncos!! Finley was great but Brady makes everybody better. Rodgers is great but NOBODY makes pass catchers better than Brady and that includes him to.As awesome as Rodgers is hewouldn't put up 40TDs with welker and Branch! I bet Finleys YPC increases 2-3 yards with Tom Brady. He is typically almost 13, I fully expect that to increase to 14+ catching passes from Brady with his speed,size,length, and ball skills. He no doubt has a career best season as a patriot. If we bring in Jermichael he and Gronk surpasses Our old 2TE set. Not to mention Dobson and Thompkins on the outside now but Finley/Gronk are deep threats themselves. With a much improved oline the patriots score as many points as Denver or more. Jermichael makes it more special and if rookies make the leap we could rival 07. Gronk/Finley strikes fear in the NFL pass or run,they are mismatches! To big for DBs,to good for LBs . Throw in speed like a developed Dobson/Thompkins/Boyce and a breakout for Shane Vereen if he is injury free and WOW. I can see Vereen having nearly 1000 yards both catching and rushing. If he wins the starting job he rivals Shadys #'s. Edelman moves the chains setting up big plays from these guys. Im sure Bill really wants Jermichael Finley and he wants to be a patriot.