Easley signed

Deus Irae said:

Pretty much your entire post. It was ridiculous in how little was applicable, and in how wrong that applicable parts were. Frankly, I was initially thinking that someone must have borrowed your computer at home, or something. It's one of the silliest non-defense defenses that I've read on this site, and there have been hundreds of doozies around here.

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The objective of all the player movement is to W-I-N. BB accomplished that.

The objective of all the player movement is to do better than everyone else. BB accomplished that, too.

Perfection is desirable; but REALITY is what is achievable. BB accomplished that too.

AzPatsFan said:

The objective of all the player movement is to W-I-N. BB accomplished that.

The objective of all the player movement is to do better than everyone else. BB accomplished that, too.

Perfection is desirable; but REALITY is what is achievable. BB accomplished that too.

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Did you not read the thread before you commented, or did you just decide to completely ignore what was being talked about, to randomly click on my post, and to spout off on something that had essentially nothing to do with the discussion?

patriot lifer said:

learn something new everyday

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It isn't datum is the singular form. The plural form is data. [from the Latin].

AzPatsFan said:

It isn't datum is the singular form. The plural form is data. [from the Latin].

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The simplified answer here is that data can be either, depending if it is a count noun (can be replaced by facts) or a mass noun (can be replaced by information). An example of data used as a count noun is, “The data consist of the names, heights, and weights of the 30 children in this class.” An example of data used as a mass noun is, “Data is increasing at an incredible rate.”

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http://www.forbes.com/sites/naomirobbins/2012/07/25/is-the-word-data-singular-or-plural/

JackBauer said:

Derrick Burgess...wow, I had forgotten about that one. Yeesh.

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And we remember WHY that was, don't we? BB had coached him at the Pro Bowl. Include also Adalius Thomas and Chad Ochocinco. BB is the greatest coach in football, but he has his blind spots ...

AzPatsFan said:

It isn't datum is the singular form. The plural form is data. [from the Latin].

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DI is quite right on this matter. It would be correct to say "We have less data about the outcome of the most recent drafts", not "fewer data".

I applaud his pedantry.

Cool about Easley.

Mike the Brit said:

And we remember WHY that was, don't we? BB had coached him at the Pro Bowl. Include also Adalius Thomas and Chad Ochocinco. BB is the greatest coach in football, but he has his blind spots ...

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****. You're right. Bill may actually have been somehow impressed and cloudy in judgement when said players hit on him more than once.

Mike the Brit said:

DI is quite right on this matter. It would be correct to say "We have less data about the outcome of the most recent drafts", not "fewer data".

I applaud his pedantry.

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Mike, I wonder if acceptance of this usage is more established in the UK? (Treatment of mass nouns is often different in British vs. American English.) Over here Deus is still perfectly correct, but the usage is modern enough that lots of people have been taught otherwise.

In football terms, datum = player, and data = players (plural) OR team (singular).

patchick said:

Mike, I wonder if acceptance of this usage is more established in the UK? (Treatment of mass nouns is often different in British vs. American English.) Over here Deus is still perfectly correct, but the usage is modern enough that lots of people have been taught otherwise.

In football terms, datum = player, and data = players (plural) OR team (singular).

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Interesting. I'd like to know more about that.

I don't quite get your last sentence, but is it about whether we give teams a singular or plural? Most American team names seem to be nicknames that apply to the members of the team (the Demon Deacons -- really?) so it is natural to talk about the team in the plural, as a group of individuals. Very few British team names are like that. So you have the Boston Celtics, we have Glasgow Celtic. But there are exceptions in each case (Miami Heat, Wolverhampton Wanderers). I tend to use the singular when I talk about teams (Jets or Raiders? Which one sucks most?) and don't feel guilty.

No doubt that shows that I am part of that terrible European collectivism that is threatening to swamp the robust individualism of American life, but there you go ...

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-06-25.html

In the UK, very few people could tell you the difference between a mass and a count noun, I'm sorry to say. I do seem to remember that Marks & Spencer (the supermarket for the conservative middle classes) changed the label on their express checkout line from "five items or less" to "five items or fewer" after public pressure from harrumphing old schoolteacher types, but I doubt that many people notice or care.

I'm not at all surprised, though, that you and Deus do. Long may you keep up our standards!

This thread has had more twists and turns than the movie "Wild Things".

Well the important thing is that we've taken a thread about signing a promising first round pick and used it to discuss some really fresh and innovative arguments that are sure to change a lot of opinions between the two sides.

Sicilian said:

Well the important thing is that we've taken a thread about signing a promising first round pick and used it to discuss some really fresh and innovative arguments that are sure to change a lot of opinions between the two sides.

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Sicilian said:

Well the important thing is that we've taken a thread about signing a promising first round pick and used it to discuss some really fresh and innovative arguments that are sure to change a lot of opinions between the two sides.

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We've got people finally able to discuss some of the team's issues from the past with (mostly) reasonable, rational and relevant discussion. I'd say that makes this thread one of the best this site's had in years, even if it was a bit of an OT journey that got us there.

Deus Irae said:

We've got people finally able to discuss some of the team's issues from the past with (mostly) reasonable, rational and relevant discussion. I'd say that makes this thread one of the best this site's had in years, even if it was a bit of an OT journey that got us there.

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This is true. If you had brought up those drafts in the style that I did a couple of pages ago back in 2010, the **** would have hit the fan. The floodgates would have opened and you would have been flame baited by a bunch of homers. Apparently the evidence is so overwhelming that those drafts, particularly on the defensive side of the ball, were just so bad that nobody really cares to argue the other way these days. Well, everyone except one guy.

Danger Zone said:

33% of 1st round Draft picks go bust
50% of 2nd round Draft picks go bust.

And it gets much worse from there.

Since the Patriots draft so late in the first round, their picks probably should have an average bust rate of 45%

I think people don't appreciate how much of a crap shoot the Draft is.

That said, I am positive that some of those busts would be drafted high today -if their NFL future was still an unknown.. because these players still have all the measurables that the NFL uses to guess whether they can make the transition or not.

But there's probably no doubt those drafts are sprinkles with avoidable mistakes as well.

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patchick said:

I'm 100% on both sides on this. I believe strongly that fans have unrealistic draft expectations. E.g. we seem to consider a guy like Logan Ryan as the expected value of a late 3rd rounder, when history shows that most late 3rds are washouts. I also think that fans are led astray by the availability heuristic: we remember all teams' draft successes but only our own teams' misses, so we don't realize how dominant misses are across the league.

But I also believe in, to use your phrase, "avoidable mistakes." There's no doubt that the Patriots have made them, and I think it's interesting to sort out what kind of mistakes those are. The key category that leaps out at me is players like Ron Brace and Shawn Crable: relatively high picks who lacked the key measurables that best predict success at their respective positions.

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I personally think that day 3 is a great time to get aggressive and take a few risks. The more picks, the better - some teams like the Raven's apparently follow a strategy of getting more picks (including signing FAs after June 1, and choosing to not overspend to keep replaceable players in order to accumulate comp picks) because the draft is such a crap shoot, thereby increasing the odds.

I don't have a problem with spending a day 3 pick (or UDFA signing) on a player who has great measurables, or guys who have slipped due to character or injury concerns. Alfonzo Dennard falls into the latter category, and I personally wish the Pats had been a bit more aggressive with guys like Vontaze Burfict, Colt Lyerla/AC Leonard, Da'Rick Rodgers and others. The cost is low, and the team can easily move on if these guys don't work out. The success rate will obviously be low (many of my favorite "moon shots" with incredible measurables haven't panned out, such as WR Dale Moss, DB Brandon Hardin, and DE/OLB Louis Nzegwu; DT Lawrence Okoye hasn't done anything either, but is still a work in progress), but a couple of hits can have a huge impact. I think the key is not over-reaching for measurables early on, particularly if other factors are lacking (the "Darius Heyward-Bey syndrome"), and being cautious of guys who seem to lack clear measurables, especially on day 1-2 (Ron Brace). Regardless of whether they pan out, I think that guys like Alfonzo Dennard (day 2 talent who slipped due to character issues), Nate Ebner (great measurables and ST value, with upside), Michael Buchanan (solid measurables and potential day 2 talent who slipped because of injury-related issues), Zach Moore (small school prospect with good size and measurables) and Jeremy Gallon (big time performer at the college level with excellent speed and explosiveness measurables) were all excellent late round picks. I would have liked to see the team make a run at day 3 guys with exceptional measurables like Kevin Pierre-Louis, John Urschel and Lonnie Ballentine, but you can't get them all.

KontradictioN said:

This thread has had more twists and turns than the movie "Wild Things".

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This topic is nothing w/o pictures

(Enjoyed the {depressing} draft discussion)

PatsWickedPissah said:

This topic is nothing w/o pictures

(Enjoyed the {depressing} draft discussion)

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God, I love that movie.

Hernandez hurt us when it comes to taking aboard players with run ins with the law. We used to take pride in fixing players like moss and Talib. That definitely prevented us from signing Kenny Britt. I think it makes no sense to be scared off from talent like Britt. Hernandez was a total psycho job. Much different from a Kenny Britt, Burfict, or young Moss who can fix their behavior. Hernandez was a rare and different case. In our disciplined system a player like Britt could have been a major steal. As could Lyerla. That is part of coaching staffs job. Its part of coaching up a young talent. Getting him to focus on football and work hard to straighten out players with legal trouble. In this era of free agency its as important to scout players in free agency as it is the draft. Its important to anticipate a player with talent who has underperformed due to lack of focus,lack of work as well as in bad systems and being utilized incorrectly. Or plain old bad coaching, leadership and motivation On his team, meaning bad teams like the jags, browns, dolphins, or raiders. We should have a thread discussing a talented player we can obtain cheap in FA or a trade who could be a pro bowl talent with us. I like Denarius Moore, Carl Nicks, and Tyson ALUALU to name a couple.

PatFanCraig said:

We should have a thread discussing a talented player we can obtain cheap in FA or a trade who could be a pro bowl talent with us. I like Denarius Moore, Carl Nicks, and Tyson ALUALU to name a couple.

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It's a bit OT to this thread (which has already taken several turns to the side), but there has been some discussion of potential players on the trading block. A NFL.com article came up with a list a few weeks ago:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000353281/article/ten-summertime-trade-candidates

Denarius Moore is on that list. Brandon Flowers, also on that list, was of course cut by the Chiefs and signed by San Diego. The two who I like the best (assuming they actually are available, and that the price isn't prohibitive) are Tennessee DE Derrick Morgan (who I doubt is really on the trading block) and Arizona TE Rob Housler, both of whom I think could thrive here. I'd love to see either one on the Pats. As for the guys you list, Nicks in particular has a huge contract and had health issues last year, so I'm not sure that one's realistic.