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Another look at the coverage in the secondary


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Watch this video, Browner makes many plays in space both in the running game and in the passing game.

A Highlight film, B6? A highlight film? :rolleyes:

Well thanks for the look at Browner's best. It makes me excited about having him here this year. HOWEVER if anything it only goes to enforce the impression that Browner is at his best when he has hands on his opponent and in short area zones.

A perfect example of his skill set is the very FIRST play. Browner is beaten badly on a deep route and makes the interception because of his length and the fact the ball was underthrown. I'm sure if we saw a catalog of ALL his plays we'd see a few plays just like this one where the ball wasn't overthrown with a lot different results.

What did this highlight reel show. It showed to me that he's a good CB with a unique skill set that has limitations as well as success. Nothing in it tell me he's a safety. Hey, I could put together an equally impressive 30 play Kyle Arrington highlight film, including his 9 picks, 2 sacks, about 10 solid tackles, and 10 passes defended. But it would make him a better CB, let alone a S, because there'd be a few hundred plays that woudn't be "highlights". :eek:

I'm surprised you have fought so hard to defend a position that has been rather indefensible. I suggest you use your prodigious research skills to add to other topics. Skills I could have used when talking about the possible lessening of the need for special teams specialists who don't kick or snap.

This one is over, (at least for us, B6) Browner might be matched up with a particular TE on occasion in certain situational D's, but it is VERY unlikely he's ever going to be a S for the Pats. Its time to let this one go, bro
 
  • Agree
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Jamie Collins is not going to play a snap of safety this season. Just because he's big and athletic doesn't mean he's a safety.
 
A Highlight film, B6? A highlight film? :rolleyes:

Well thanks for the look at Browner's best. It makes me excited about having him here this year. HOWEVER if anything it only goes to enforce the impression that Browner is at his best when he has hands on his opponent and in short area zones.

A perfect example of his skill set is the very FIRST play. Browner is beaten badly on a deep route and makes the interception because of his length and the fact the ball was underthrown. I'm sure if we saw a catalog of ALL his plays we'd see a few plays just like this one where the ball wasn't overthrown with a lot different results.

What did this highlight reel show. It showed to me that he's a good CB with a unique skill set that has limitations as well as success. Nothing in it tell me he's a safety. Hey, I could put together an equally impressive 30 play Kyle Arrington highlight film, including his 9 picks, 2 sacks, about 10 solid tackles, and 10 passes defended. But it would make him a better CB, let alone a S, because there'd be a few hundred plays that woudn't be "highlights". :eek:

I'm surprised you have fought so hard to defend a position that has been rather indefensible. I suggest you use your prodigious research skills to add to other topics. Skills I could have used when talking about the possible lessening of the need for special teams specialists who don't kick or snap.

This one is over, (at least for us, B6) Browner might be matched up with a particular TE on occasion in certain situational D's, but it is VERY unlikely he's ever going to be a S for the Pats. Its time to let this one go, bro
As I said my belief is that when Browner returns in week 5 he will be inserted to replace the weakest link in the secondary. I believe he offers the versatility to play CB or SAF and that was part of the appeal for Belichick signing him. As far covering tight ends, I am in agreement that one of his primary roles will be in coverage against the opponents #1 TE.

It is feasible that the Patriots put Revis, McCourty, Browner, Dennard, and Ryan all on the field together and then -

-Revis covers the #1 WR
-Browner covers the #1 TE
-Dennard covers the #2 or #3 WR
-Ryan covers the #2 or #3 WR
-McCourty plays centerfield

This is how I see things looking, in which case Browner aligning in the box on the strong side would make sees because he could pick up the TE in coverage and also use his size and physical presence in the run game.

Other times Ryan and McCourty could both drop into deep safety and Revis could take the #1 WR, Browner could take the #2 WR or #1 TE (depending on teams scheme) and Dennard could take the opponents #2 WR or move inside to cover a slot WR.

I do not see the secondary aligning in any one way, heck McCourty is probably as good a CB as anyone on the team not named Revis, so they could stunt and drop him into man coverage at times as well.
 
As I said my belief is that when Browner returns in week 5 he will be inserted to replace the weakest link in the secondary. I believe he offers the versatility to play CB or SAF and that was part of the appeal for Belichick signing him. As far covering tight ends, I am in agreement that one of his primary roles will be in coverage against the opponents #1 TE.
Browner covering #1 TEs isn't a bad thought, but at this point I don't think there's any reason not to expect that job to be Collins' like it was in the playoffs last year.
 
We call can agree that Belichick will try varied sets to take advantage of the skills of this year's defensive backs. Having Revis and Browner will be awesome.
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You struggle mightily to find away to bench Arrington as our nickel back. IMHO, either Dennard or Ryan will beat him out for reps or they won't. And yes, either Dennard or Ryan will beat out Browner for reps as an outside CB or he won't.

There are three key decisions that will not have to happen until after Game 4.

ONE: Who is our starting safety for the season and the playoffs?
Have a corner playing there if you wish, but we do start two players that we label as a safety

TWO: Who is our #2 outside corner for the season and the playoffs?
Browner? Ryan? Dennard? Let the competition begin.

THREE: Who is our nickel back (inside corner, slot corner) for the season and the playoffs?
We will have better coverage from whatever linebacker(s) are on the field. But the issue of chossing an inside corner is real. Belichick likes Arrington and pays him well. Of course, Arrington is no good as an outside corner, or as a DE either, as if that matters.

You want to play Browner inside. I think that is NOT what he was brought her to do. Last month, posters had Browner playing safety. This month it is nickel. IMHO, in October, it will be outside CB.

SIDE ISSUE - DIME BACK AND BACKUP SAFETIES
Seven defensive backs get almost all the reps (4 CB, 2S, 1 DB). The five you list plus Harmon and Arrington are the seven, barring injuries. Arrington and Harmon are the backups in your scenario. So, we have seven locks comprising the best defensive backfield we've had in several years. We could even be better by adding a veteran like Thomas to the seven.

However, for ME, given the likelihood of injuries at this position and the fact that we start with someone on suspension, the #8 defensive back is an important position. We also seem to have 1-2 STOP who are listed as safeties (our #9 and #10 DB).

The most likely #8-#10 DB's at this point seem to be Chung, Wilson, and Ebner (or perhaps Thomas).
Belichick will certainly be watching the waiver wires. Thomas seems a fine choice.

As I said my belief is that when Browner returns in week 5 he will be inserted to replace the weakest link in the secondary. I believe he offers the versatility to play CB or SAF and that was part of the appeal for Belichick signing him. As far covering tight ends, I am in agreement that one of his primary roles will be in coverage against the opponents #1 TE.

It is feasible that the Patriots put Revis, McCourty, Browner, Dennard, and Ryan all on the field together and then -

-Revis covers the #1 WR
-Browner covers the #1 TE
-Dennard covers the #2 or #3 WR
-Ryan covers the #2 or #3 WR
-McCourty plays centerfield

This is how I see things looking, in which case Browner aligning in the box on the strong side would make sees because he could pick up the TE in coverage and also use his size and physical presence in the run game.

Other times Ryan and McCourty could both drop into deep safety and Revis could take the #1 WR, Browner could take the #2 WR or #1 TE (depending on teams scheme) and Dennard could take the opponents #2 WR or move inside to cover a slot WR.

I do not see the secondary aligning in any one way, heck McCourty is probably as good a CB as anyone on the team not named Revis, so they could stunt and drop him into man coverage at times as well.
 
We call can agree that Belichick will try varied sets to take advantage of the skills of this year's defensive backs. Having Revis and Browner will be awesome.
=========================================================
You struggle mightily to find away to bench Arrington as our nickel back. IMHO, either Dennard or Ryan will beat him out for reps or they won't. And yes, either Dennard or Ryan will beat out Browner for reps as an outside CB or he won't.
I have no clue what you are trying to say here, I would be surprised if you knew, but thanks for letting me know I struggle with it.:rolleyes:
There are three key decisions that will not have to happen until after Game 4.

ONE: Who is our starting safety for the season and the playoffs?

Have a corner playing there if you wish, but we do start two players that we label as a safety
Stating the obvious here…
TWO: Who is our #2 outside corner for the season and the playoffs?

Browner? Ryan? Dennard? Let the competition begin.
Dennard has been one of the better #2 CB in the NFL over the past 2 season, his insertion into the lineup as a rookie was not far from the impact that Talib had on the secondary.
THREE: Who is our nickel back (inside corner, slot corner) for the season and the playoffs?

We will have better coverage from whatever linebacker(s) are on the field. But the issue of chossing an inside corner is real. Belichick likes Arrington and pays him well. Of course, Arrington is no good as an outside corner, or as a DE either, as if that matters.
Yeah, Belichick seemed thrilled with Arrington when he benched him 3-4 times at the end of last season. Arrington is a good depth CB and ST player, he is not an all pro slot CB as you like to suggest.
You want to play Browner inside. I think that is NOT what he was brought her to do. Last month, posters had Browner playing safety. This month it is nickel. IMHO, in October, it will be outside CB.
I never said a thing about Browner playing nickel CB, not once EVER, you might want to work on actually comprehending what you read in my posts, this MG adds imaginary things to my posts bit that you are legendary for is really becoming a tired act and I am sick of having to restate my posts. I said Browner could line up in the box and pick up the opponents #1 TE 1on1.
SIDE ISSUE - DIME BACK AND BACKUP SAFETIES
Seven defensive backs get almost all the reps (4 CB, 2S, 1 DB). The five you list plus Harmon and Arrington are the seven, barring injuries. Arrington and Harmon are the backups in your scenario. So, we have seven locks comprising the best defensive backfield we've had in several years. We could even be better by adding a veteran like Thomas to the seven.
All reasonable questions but basically irrelevant to what I had posted.
 
Yeah, Belichick seemed thrilled with Arrington when he benched him 3-4 times at the end of last season. Arrington is a good depth CB and ST player, he is not an all pro slot CB as you like to suggest.
Please name these 3-4 times for me
 
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So far in this thread I have learned that mgteich is illogical and can't write and that Sciz is a moron. Well, at least we have one MENSA member on this site.

It was two but Gymrat was banned.
 
As an aside, I am fine with Arrington leaving after the season if he isn't worth the money and we have worthy replacements. For now he is one of our 7 top defensive backs.

For me, I was OK with Gregory leaving under the same circumstances, costing too much and having a worth replacement. Somehow, I didn't particularly like the replacement he chose in Chung. Even of the plan is to move over a corner, it seems best to have a veteran in place, just in case. Chung is that man, I guess.
 
So far in this thread I have learned that mgteich is illogical and can't write and that Sciz is a moron. Well, at least we have one MENSA member on this site.

It was two but Gymrat was banned.
Could you please provide the posts in which I called Sciz a moron and MG illogical?
 
Huh? Have you ever watched Browner play? The comparison you made is just moronic it makes zero sense.


........................
 
I have no clue what you are trying to say here, I would be surprised if you knew, but thanks for letting me know I struggle with it.

I never said a thing about Browner playing nickel CB, not once EVER, you might want to work on actually comprehending what you read in my posts, this MG adds imaginary things to my posts bit that you are legendary for is really becoming a tired act and I am sick of having to restate my posts.

All reasonable questions but basically irrelevant to what I had posted.
 
........................


I never called Sciz a moron; I said the comparison was moronic, I did not say he was a moron, nor do I feel he is a moron. I said that I did not understand what MG was trying to say and I said that he imagined that I said Browner should play the slot, I did not understand what he was trying to say, and I have never said Browner should play the slot. I did not call him illogical at any point and time.

Overall, I really do not understand you. You suggest that others and I think we are better than you and other posters, but that is bull. You dislike me because I disagree with you about a player or a situation, so really who is the one that is full of themselves? I have to go with the person that shuns anyone who does not agree with him or her. Secondly, I have reached out to you on PM and in posts multiple times, tried to mend whatever issues we have with each other, you have ignored me, you could not even take the time to respond to me in fact. Once again who is really the full of themselves person, the one who cannot even be bothered to make an attempt to work things out, will not even take a minute to respond to a Happy New Year’s message, or the poster who reached out and made an attempt. Once again, I have to go with the poster who just disregards a person as worthless and ignores them completely with the exception of making fun of them or saying something negative about them. If there is any person in this forum that thinks so highly of themselves that they look down on others it is you, in fact you do it on a daily basis, if someone says something you do not like you do not discuss it with them. You degrade them for public consumption and then get off on the number of positive ratings you get because of that.

I am not going to sit here while you lie and disparage me for your own amusement. Obviously, you think you are too good to attempt to get along with me so I am not even going to bother anymore trying, but I would appreciate it if you did not spend your time in here exaggerating posts, or making passive aggressive comments that are slighted towards me. Thank you!
 
I never called Sciz a moron; I said the comparison was moronic, I did not say he was a moron, nor do I feel he is a moron. I said that I did not understand what MG was trying to say and I said that he imagined that I said Browner should play the slot, I did not understand what he was trying to say, and I have never said Browner should play the slot. I did not call him illogical at any point and time.

Overall, I really do not understand you. You suggest that others and I think we are better than you and other posters, but that is bull. You dislike me because I disagree with you about a player or a situation, so really who is the one that is full of themselves? I have to go with the person that shuns anyone who does not agree with him or her. Secondly, I have reached out to you on PM and in posts multiple times, tried to mend whatever issues we have with each other, you have ignored me, you could not even take the time to respond to me in fact. Once again who is really the full of themselves person, the one who cannot even be bothered to make an attempt to work things out, will not even take a minute to respond to a Happy New Year’s message, or the poster who reached out and made an attempt. Once again, I have to go with the poster who just disregards a person as worthless and ignores them completely with the exception of making fun of them or saying something negative about them. If there is any person in this forum that thinks so highly of themselves that they look down on others it is you, in fact you do it on a daily basis, if someone says something you do not like you do not discuss it with them. You degrade them for public consumption and then get off on the number of positive ratings you get because of that.

I am not going to sit here while you lie and disparage me for your own amusement. Obviously, you think you are too good to attempt to get along with me so I am not even going to bother anymore trying, but I would appreciate it if you did not spend your time in here exaggerating posts, or making passive aggressive comments that are slighted towards me. Thank you!
images
 
Jamie Collins is not going to play a snap of safety this season. Just because he's big and athletic doesn't mean he's a safety.

I agree, although he was a safety in college.
 
I think the secondary debate as a whole, will be the highest contended subject of the next couple/few months, and that's a GOOD thing this year with all of the depth and weapons we have.

I think the idea was there last year, (and maybe even in 2012 following 2011's pathetic performance that ironically somehow almost netted us a SB win), but the overall talent was still lacking. This year should be a different story, barring catastrophic injury situations.

As mgteich says "let the competition begin!"
 
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