Devin McCourty contract talks in progress

FCB02062 said:

Quick, other than that play by Spikes - what Patriot has made a play in a close, big game? Bueller? Bueller? None, and that's why the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl in 10 years despite having the best qb, coach, and a host of good and great players. As one player once said, "Special players make special plays in special games." The Patriots have lacked that. That is not debatable.

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So basically, it has to be a forced turnover that prevents a score in a one-score playoff win? I'll be just happy with the 41-28 and 43-22 playoff wins even if they mean none of the defensive players are any good by your standards.

JMC00 said:

So how come Harrison couldn't dislodge the ball from a JAG?

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Rodney Harrisson made plenty of huge plays throughout his Patriot career...looking at that game the better question is why didn't Samuel intercept the ball or why didn't Seymour manage to wrap up E Manning...don't get me started on that game

Sciz said:

So basically, it has to be a forced turnover that prevents a score in a one-score playoff win? I'll be just happy with the 41-28 and 43-22 playoff wins even if they mean none of the defensive players are any good by your standards.

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You don't win a playoff game 41-28 without the defense making a big play!! He is absolutely right, other than Spikes' INT, the only other huge play on the defense in the playoffs I can remember is Vince's play against Baltimore in the AFC Championship(the on the Pats won) not the one where Joe Flacco looked like Peyton!

Sciz said:

So basically, it has to be a forced turnover that prevents a score in a one-score playoff win? I'll be just happy with the 41-28 and 43-22 playoff wins even if they mean none of the defensive players are any good by your standards.

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Typical highlight fan. McCourty is faulted because not many balls come his way.

According to him McCourty's never made a game changing or sealing play. I guess he forgot about when McCourty kept the ball in bounds and tipped it to Cole when the score was 20-17 in the Dolphins game. Miami was at the NE 46 driving and it was on 1st and 10.

Pats take over go down the field and score 27-17 and that's the final score of the game.



As you can see if McCourty doesn't make that play Wallace more than likely catches that ball and the Dolphins would have at the very least been at the 16 yard line.

Sciz said:

So basically, it has to be a forced turnover that prevents a score in a one-score playoff win? I'll be just happy with the 41-28 and 43-22 playoff wins even if they mean none of the defensive players are any good by your standards.

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Did I ever say they weren't any good? No, you're fabricating. My points are crystal clear A.) McCourty is a good, not great, special safety B.) Devin McCourty in his 4 or 5 year career has not made one game altering play in a big game despite playing in EIGHT playoff games - ZERO picks, ZERO forced fumbles, ZERO fumble recoveries...NADA!
The last big play from McCourty I can remember was when he picked of Ryan Fitzpatrick in the end zone to seal a win vs Buffalo in 2012...

FreeTedWilliams said:

YHe is absolutely right, !

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What is he right about? "Big plays" are what matters and not consistent excellent play? Making a side of the field a non factor is not a "big play". Ahhhh I got it now.

If you aint getting on sports center with "big plays" you are not a great player.

FCB02062 said:

Did I ever say they weren't any good? No, you're fabricating. My points are crystal clear A.) McCourty is a good, not great, special safety B.) Devin McCourty in his 4 or 5 year career has not made one game altering play in a big game despite playing in EIGHT playoff games - ZERO picks, ZERO forced fumbles, ZERO fumble recoveries...NADA!
The last big play from McCourty I can remember was when he picked of Ryan Fitzpatrick in the end zone to seal a win vs Buffalo in 2012...

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Deus Irae said:

I'm well known around here as one who's not worried about criticizing Patriots players (many of the homers would phrase that far less politely), so I'm not coming at this from the shill point of view. That being said, let's get real here. The safety position is currently weak across the league. The idea that McCourty is just average is nonsensical. If you want to argue that he's not a top 3/5/7/10 safety, that's one thing. Claiming he's average at best? Please, feel free to slot last year's starting safeties and show us where McCourty falls in the middle/slightly below the middle (32 teams, 2 safeties = 64 safeties, meaning you're rating McCourty someone in the 30-40 range). Make it easy on yourself. Just go division by division. Start with the NFCE, NCFN, and NFCS, and I think you'll start to realize that your position doesn't hold water.

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Show me where the impact is, tell the plays I should look at? I am asking for your evidence instead of your opinion! Did McCourty step up his play and standout in two AFCCG when their top DB went down the answer is clearly NO! Is McCourty capable of doing what Harrison did in that SB run and the answer is no. Again I ask for your evidence something I can look at not your opinion.

PATS68 said:

Show me where the impact is, tell the plays I should look at? I am asking for your evidence instead of your opinion! Did McCourty step up his play and standout in two AFCCG when their top DB went down the answer is clearly NO! Is McCourty capable of doing what Harrison did in that SB run and the answer is no. Again I ask for your evidence something I can look at not your opinion.

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Are you going to answer his question first? It was a fair question. Name the safeties in the game better than DMC.

JMC00 said:

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Is this it is this the best we got. Wheres the Ravens, Broncos, games where are those plays when it matters.

Bruins29 said:

Are you going to answer his question first? It was a fair question. Name the safeties in the game better than DMC.

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Its answering an opinion with an opinion it not really a question with an absolute IE will it be dark tonight.

PATS68 said:

Its answering an opinion with an opinion it not really a question with an absolute IE will it be dark tonight.

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Also I have to run I go on shift in an hour.

PATS68 said:

Its answering an opinion with an opinion it not really a question with an absolute IE will it be dark tonight.

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What do opinions have to do with it? Just name the elite safeties in the game. Should be easy.

Go

PATS68 said:

Its answering an opinion with an opinion it not really a question with an absolute IE will it be dark tonight.

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You made a claim. You claimed that McCourty was an average to below average safety. I asked you to rank the safeties. I'm not really answering an opinion with an opinion. I'm answering an opinion by asking you do do a bit of work to back up your position. There is obvious evidence for McCourty in his being chosen 2nd team all-pro, so I'm clearly not coming out of nowhere. You may not find that to be sufficiently persuasive, but it's not just my personal opinion.

Again, do yourself a favor. Go division by division, and start with the divisions I mentioned. I think you're going to be very surprised at how high even you put McCourty after doing that.

Well when I listened to Rodney Harrison on Boston talk radio a few months ago and he said the Pats need better play from their safety position that is coming from an expert. He clearly said they are lacking physical play in that area of the team and he suggested they need to pickup an impact guys.

Says it all for me.

No he asked me to rank who I thought was top this or that. Sort of like the guy who wrote Brady not top 5. Can go either way. I think past college classes have taught me what an opinion is vs a question is.

FCB02062 said:

Did I ever say they weren't any good? No, you're fabricating. My points are crystal clear A.) McCourty is a good, not great, special safety B.) Devin McCourty in his 4 or 5 year career has not made one game altering play in a big game despite playing in EIGHT playoff games - ZERO picks, ZERO forced fumbles, ZERO fumble recoveries...NADA!
The last big play from McCourty I can remember was when he picked of Ryan Fitzpatrick in the end zone to seal a win vs Buffalo in 2012...

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We know what you think about McCourty. You think he has to show up in specific columns of the stat sheet, in specific games, with those plays coming at specific times to be considered a top player at his position. This idea of ranking players based on "game-altering plays" in "big games" makes no sense unless you're trying to create an ESPN Top 10 play list for the postseason. When you're basing your opinion of a player on whether any one of his snaps qualifies as a game-altering play in a big game as opposed to looking as his body of work consisting of thousands of snaps, then your system is broken.

PATS68 said:

Is this it is this the best we got. Wheres the Ravens, Broncos, games where are those plays when it matters.

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Really this is what it comes down to? Because McCourty hasn't made an INT as a Safety in a playoff game?

Also the poster was making a false claim that McCourty has never made a game altering play in a big game. I consider every divisional game a big game. Clear evidence that he has made one.

People here are throwing out 7/8/9 M a year for Devin. I personally don't think he's top 5, I think his value is more between 4-6, I reference the TJ Ward (i know slightly different position) contract this year.

PATS68 said:

Well when I listened to Rodney Harrison on Boston talk radio a few months ago and he said the Pats need better play from their safety position that is coming from an expert. He clearly said they are lacking physical play in that area of the team and he suggested they need to pickup an impact guys.

Says it all for me.

No he asked me to rank who I thought was top this or that. Sort of like the guy who wrote Brady not top 5. Can go either way. I think past college classes have taught me what an opinion is vs a question is.

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You dont really follow the game that closely do you. It is ok but if you are going to come on this forum and try to make claims based on statements made by former players as if they are gospel, you are going to get shredded to pieces here.

And, your "opinion"isnt really "your" opinion. Its parroting what Rodney said. And the fact that the entire NFL coaching staff and players themselves completely disagree with your stance (and his) should tell you something. Nevermind the fact you probably did not understand what he was saying to begin with.

We get this a few times a year. Former players are not always experts. Also, Ironic we are taking about safeties making big plays and Harrison comes up as a name to defend the importance of big plays.

As mentioned before where was he when DT was catching a pass that 1000 out of 1000 times he would not have made even without a safety draped on him.

PATS68 said:

Well when I listened to Rodney Harrison on Boston talk radio a few months ago and he said the Pats need better play from their safety position that is coming from an expert. He clearly said they are lacking physical play in that area of the team and he suggested they need to pickup an impact guys.

Says it all for me.

No he asked me to rank who I thought was top this or that. Sort of like the guy who wrote Brady not top 5. Can go either way. I think past college classes have taught me what an opinion is vs a question is.

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Stop twisting it as if Harrison said McCourty isn't good. Harrison has been adamant that they need to add a hard hitting safety.

He thought Adrian Wilson was that guy.


“Adding him, the veteran leadership, the presence, the respect factor, he’s a guy that’s a terrific blitzer, and a physical presence,” Harrison told Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald. “I think he can come in especially during nickel and dime situations, and come down [close to the line] and play that second linebacker position like I did. He’s physical enough to help out in the run game, but he can also cover tight ends. So he can be that guy next to [Jerod] Mayo who can come in and really make a difference in that nickel and dime package. . . . It’s a fantastic move. I think he’ll help the Patriots immediately. I think he’ll hold people accountable.”

But what about Ed Reed? Many believed that Pats coach Bill Belichick would make a beeline for the now-former Raven, who signed with the Texans.”For what the Patriots need, they don’t need Ed Reed. They need an Adrian Wilson,” Harrison said. “They don’t need a free safety that can intercept balls. They have that. Devin McCourty is that Ed Reed [role]. He doesn’t have that name behind him. But he is developing into a young safety. They need a guy like Adrian Wilson who can really give them versatility in those nickel and dime packages. He’ll help that secondary right away.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-thinks-pats-got-it-right-with-adrian-wilson/

and here is what he said in an interview with WEEI back in Feb

“I really believe, if they could get that physical, hard-hitting safety … I think that's something they need to look for,” he said. “Someone like [Seattle's] Kam Chancellor, or even not that big of a safety because it's hard to find safeties that big that can still move. But just somebody, when you come across the middle, you know you're going to get whacked.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-.../4758533/rodney-harrison-assesses-pats-future


Every time Harrison is asked about Safety for the Patriots he has always said they need to get a hard hitting Strong Safety.