SI: Tape backs up Easley hype

FreeTedWilliams · Jun 11, 2014

I would just like to remind everyone, he is still not cleared to practice! That's right, your DROY still isn't even healthy enough to practice! And you think somehow he is going to magically pick up the BB defense without any practice time! You have to remember he went to Florida!

Look I've seen him play for a few years, 2 years ago, he was a stud, but a tear in both ACLs, which leg does he favor now? Hopefully he will be fully healed and stay healthy, but that is a big IF!

The Pats have the realistic potential of having neither one of their first two draft picks see the field!

mayoclinic · Jun 11, 2014

lurker1965 said:
Did I tell you of the old 5-2? The NT slowly moved off the line so the DTs could protect him and he could react to run plays and evolved to be the MLB. (Keep in mind this was the early '50s and a 250 pound guy was huge. All the D line and O line were about the size of LBs. Picture Wilfork being Mayo sized and not being obscenely undersized.)

I'm very familiar with the old 5-2 Eagle and Monster, thanks. Again, we discussed this and many variations of hybrid schemes in gory detail on the draft board.

For anyone interested in the evolution of defensive fronts, here's a nice 7-part series written a couple of years ago by Jene Bramel for the NY Times:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-1/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...-f-l-defenses-part-2-evolution-of-4-3-front/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...f-l-defenses-part-3-the-4-3-front-continued/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...wh=40AB77743099CAA160E9FACE88C9363B&gwt=regi
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...5-the-zone-blitz/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...6-the-46-defense/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-7-nickel-subpackages/

It's a nice series, and worth a read. The 5-2 is discussed in part 2 of the series.

lurker1965 said:
In passing situations, sure. With it becoming a passing league... But you'd be begging for a fullback type who can get 3 yards and if he breaks through 1 out four runs...(Any team with a decent TE could line him up as a RB and have the right personnel - not the ideal personnel, but 'twill serve.)

A 5-1-5 with 3 safeties? Maybe in situations that seem to be occurring more often, but talk about begging to be run on.

Easly as a pass rushing LDT with Kelly (or whomever) a pass rushing RDT and a run stuffing two gapping NT Wilfork? Am I nuts?

I'm tempted to give myself a disagree.

It's a very small step from a 4-3 under to a 5-2. Consider the following:

LDE Armstead/Kelly - NT Wilfork - 3T Easley - RDE Jones
SAM Ninkovich/Hightower - MLB Mayo - WLB Collins

With the proper spacing, it's a 4-3 under, with the SAM lined up over the TE and a LDE who has the ability to 2-gap, set the edge and stop the run. Move the SAM over slightly on the line and change the spacing and you have a 5-2, with Ninkovich/Hightower as the LDE and Armstead/Kelly as a second 3T flanking the NT.

For other nice reads see:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/1/4787546/the-seahawks-and-multiple-defensive-fronts
http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/5/1/3969150/strictly-my-opinion-the-5-2-defense

patfanken · Jun 11, 2014

Brady6 said:
Pro Football Focus

That's like leeping with the enemy, eh B6

Seriously, do you have to be a member to get the stuff you do, like QB rating against CB's, etc. I've been to the site and find it hard to navigate.

BTW- in fairness, it should be noted that after that atrocious Brady article, Monson wrote a very good on on the topic of what works best, keeping your CB's on the same side like Seattle does, or flopping them like the Jets did.

mayoclinic · Jun 11, 2014

FreeTedWilliams said:
I would just like to remind everyone, he is still not cleared to practice! That's right, your DROY still isn't even healthy enough to practice! And you think somehow he is going to magically pick up the BB defense without any practice time! You have to remember he went to Florida!

Look I've seen him play for a few years, 2 years ago, he was a stud, but a tear in both ACLs, which leg does he favor now? Hopefully he will be fully healed and stay healthy, but that is a big IF!

The Pats have the realistic potential of having neither one of their first two draft picks see the field!

No one expected Easley to be cleared to play for OTAs or minicamp. He's studying film and learning the playbook. If he isn't ready come training camp, that's an entirely different story.

patfanken · Jun 11, 2014

mayoclinic said:
I'm very familiar with the old 5-2 Eagle and Monster, thanks. Again, we discussed this and many variations of hybrid schemes in gory detail on the draft board.

For anyone interested in the evolution of defensive fronts, here's a nice 7-part series written a couple of years ago by Jene Bramel for the NY Times:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-1/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...-f-l-defenses-part-2-evolution-of-4-3-front/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...f-l-defenses-part-3-the-4-3-front-continued/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...wh=40AB77743099CAA160E9FACE88C9363B&gwt=regi
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...5-the-zone-blitz/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...6-the-46-defense/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-7-nickel-subpackages/

It's a nice series, and worth a read. The 5-2 is discussed in part 2 of the series.

It's a very small step from a 4-3 under to a 5-2. Consider the following:

LDE Armstead/Kelly - NT Wilfork - 3T Easley - RDE Jones
SAM Ninkovich/Hightower - MLB Mayo - WLB Collins

With the proper spacing, it's a 4-3 under, with the SAM lined up over the TE and a LDE who has the ability to 2-gap, set the edge and stop the run. Move the SAM over slightly on the line and change the spacing and you have a 5-2, with Ninkovich/Hightower as the LDE and Armstead/Kelly as a second 3T flanking the NT.

For other nice reads see:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/1/4787546/the-seahawks-and-multiple-defensive-fronts
http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/5/1/3969150/strictly-my-opinion-the-5-2-defense

the 5-2 Okie, was developed by Bud Wilkerson during the Glory days of Oklahoma football in the 50's and was probably the most popular Defense utilized by most HS teams in the 60's and 70's when I was playing and first coaching. What we called DE's became OLB's of the 3-4's. But most of same principles remained the same with many of the same LB reads you see today.

mayoclinic · Jun 11, 2014

patfanken said:
the 5-2 Okie, was developed by Bud Wilkerson during the Glory days of Oklahoma football in the 50's and was probably the most popular Defense utilized by most HS teams in the 60's and 70's when I was playing and first coaching. What we called DE's became OLB's of the 3-4's. But most of same principles remained the same with many of the same LB reads you see today.

Greasy Neale was using the 5-2 Eagle in the 1940's. All of this stuff has been around for ages, and no one is better versed in the history of it than BB. I have no doubt that we'll see some 5-2, in a tweaked version, incorporated as part of a multi-front hybrid defense. The fun part will be seeing exactly how it is "tweaked" and applied.

Patriot Missile · Jun 11, 2014

mayoclinic said:
Depending on how things shake out this season, I'd like to see Hightower eventually move up on the line, and draft a mobile LB/S hybrid to play in a 4-2-1-4 base. Someone like Shaq Thompson, Eric Striker, or Cody Prewitt.

Patriot Missile · Jun 11, 2014

People are starting to warm up to the pick. Yes he hasn't played a down but it's hard not to get excited about the potential of the player.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...he-most-overlooked-prospect-in-2014-nfl-draft

Rob0729 · Jun 11, 2014

FreeTedWilliams said:
I would just like to remind everyone, he is still not cleared to practice! That's right, your DROY still isn't even healthy enough to practice! And you think somehow he is going to magically pick up the BB defense without any practice time! You have to remember he went to Florida!

Look I've seen him play for a few years, 2 years ago, he was a stud, but a tear in both ACLs, which leg does he favor now? Hopefully he will be fully healed and stay healthy, but that is a big IF!

The Pats have the realistic potential of having neither one of their first two draft picks see the field!

Did you see my clarification. I said IF HE IS READY AND HEALTHY FOR THE START OF TRAINING CAMP. That qualifies my DROY talk and I never said he would even be in the discussion. I said he has the POTENTIAL of being in that discussion. Right now he has the potential to have a red shirt year too, but that isn't the discussion we were having. We are talking about ceilings, not floors for his potential.

And he is a DT. He needs to adapt to the NFL, but the Patriots defense isn't nearly as complicated for a d-lineman than most other positions.

I think he will be ready for the start of the year and possibly the start of camp. It is unknown how healthy he will be.

Brady6 · Jun 11, 2014

patfanken said:
That's like leeping with the enemy, eh B6

Seriously, do you have to be a member to get the stuff you do, like QB rating against CB's, etc. I've been to the site and find it hard to navigate.

BTW- in fairness, it should be noted that after that atrocious Brady article, Monson wrote a very good on on the topic of what works best, keeping your CB's on the same side like Seattle does, or flopping them like the Jets did.

I am not a member, it is too much money but many writers reference them for their stats, I actually saw the PFF stats for Richardson in a SI article talking about him winning the DROY award. I am not anti PFF but I do not think it offers enough value for the $9 a month it costs.

Brady6 · Jun 11, 2014

Patriot Missile said:
People are starting to warm up to the pick. Yes he hasn't played a down but it's hard not to get excited about the potential of the player.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...he-most-overlooked-prospect-in-2014-nfl-draft

If Easley were healthy, he would have been a top 5 pick in the draft. He is the most explosive interior DL I have ever seen off the snap at the college level.

PatsWickedPissah · Jun 11, 2014

Christian said:
Watch this interview with him in 2012 after the LSU game and you will fall in love.

"The whole game of football is about breaking a man's will right in front of you."

This guy is the welcome return of the Tedy Bruschi "Full Tilt, Full Time" attitude & behavior

Ivan · Jun 11, 2014

patfanken said:
That's like leeping with the enemy, eh B6

Seriously, do you have to be a member to get the stuff you do, like QB rating against CB's, etc. I've been to the site and find it hard to navigate.

BTW- in fairness, it should be noted that after that atrocious Brady article, Monson wrote a very good on on the topic of what works best, keeping your CB's on the same side like Seattle does, or flopping them like the Jets did.

Pro Football Focus is a complete garbage and needs to be treated as such and disposed of at every opportunity.

Kontradiction · Jun 11, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
This guy is the welcome return of the Tedy Bruschi "Full Tilt, Full Time" attitude & behavior

Wait until you see him play. In the 4th quarter he bounces and dances to the music in the stadium right in the race of the O-Lineman that's blocking him. I just hope he can stay healthy because, if he does, his ceiling is that of the best interior pass rusher in the league. I think he's easily the best DL prospect to come out of Florida since Kearse.

PatsWickedPissah · Jun 11, 2014

KontradictioN said:
Wait until you see him play. In the 4th quarter he bounces and dances to the music in the stadium right in the race of the O-Lineman that's blocking him. I just hope he can stay healthy because, if he does, his ceiling is that of the best interior pass rusher in the league. I think he's easily the best DL prospect to come out of Florida since Kearse.

It will be football's loss when after this regular season & playoffs facing Easley, Browner & Revis, Peyton contemplates retirement

ay-yo · Jun 11, 2014

We heard that Solder and Chandler Jones weren't ready too contribute day 1 but they were (I know their situations were not injury related). Pretty much every player we have taken in the 1st round has seen significant snaps as a rookie. I expect Easley to continue this trend and I'm optimistic that he'll produce. If he has a BIG (DROY or close to it) season our defense our D has a strong chance to be best in the league.

Joker · Jun 11, 2014

Ivan said:
Pro Football Focus is a complete garbage and needs to be treated as such and disposed of at every opportunity.

Don't hold back, Ivan...tell us how you REALLY feel...

ausbacker · Jun 11, 2014

PatsWickedPissah said:
It will be football's loss when after this regular season & playoffs facing Easley, Browner & Revis, Peyton contemplates retirement

I wouldn't want Peyton to retire until he's delivered a couple more one-and-done seasons.

Ivan · Jun 12, 2014

Joker said:
Don't hold back, Ivan...tell us how you REALLY feel...

I feel like real analysis of football by people who watch the games in terms of winning and losing is being overrun by make believe metrics analysis modeled after sabermetrics that treat football like baseball, a series of one on one match-ups and related statistics that quantify the game in some meaningful way, when in truth they actually ignore the contribution of everyone else on every play and eliminate all meaningful context and substitute time and temperature for it. There is so much wrong with this approach to looking at the game and the players that the examples of why it doesn't work are literally endless, but to throw just a couple out and make this as concise as possible i would cite Kevin Faulk, whose numbers are pedestrian in the big picture, but who was as integral a part of their Super Bowl Championships and all of their other successes as they come. He didn't have the numbers, what he had was the key plays that rarely showed up in the box score. 3rd and 12 and he gets 13, need a key block to keep Brady clean and he delivers it, need 4 yards on a trap or 6 on a screen and he gets it. He made big play after big play after big play and all in big situations and yet the metrics show none of it, he's not even average. Example II, Vince Wilfork, absolutely dominant for years, as good as they get at his position, and yet he has almost no shot at the HOF and is radically undervalued by even the fans of his own team, who watched him throughout his career and saw him get double teamed on pretty much every play of his career. He gave everyone around him an advantage in their match ups because he commanded so much attention but when they mash up the numbers he's just another DT. Complete crap imo, as are the faux metrics and warped statistically based analytics of garbage sites like PFF, who actually rated Brady as the 32nd best player in football when he was the unanimous MVP.

The people who started PFF saw a financial opportunity to use a sabermetric style model and infatuate the millions of fantasy football players out there and draw them into their approach because they can actually use some of the metrics for fantasy analysis, and it will work in that regard, but fantasy football is a shallow reflection of the real thing and confusing the two leads to exactly the kinds of arguments you see breaking out on this and many other football sites, as some want to talk football, and some want to talk metrics, and imo metrics don't measure play they just measure numbers.

So congratulations to the folks at PFF for making a bunch of money for their make believe metrics, they give credence to the credo that there is a sucker born every day.

I guess that is how i really feel.

Gator Mike · Jun 12, 2014

Yeah, there's no chance he'll be ready for Training Camp.

SI: Tape backs up Easley hype

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