Devin McCourty contract talks in progress

deters said:

The market for overpaying is 8+. Byrd and Goldson aren't worth 8m and Weddle is pushing it at 8 too. My money is on Dmac getting no more than 7. Guess we'll just have to wait and see the offers and what he signs for.

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What you seem to be saying is that you don't think that McCourty is worth more than $7M. You don't think that Byrd and Goldston are worth $8M.

What you are demonstrating is that the market is paying more than YOU think that players are worth.

To be blunt, what you and I think that market SHOULD pay is irrelevant. The team can certainly choose not to pay the market value. McCourty can choose to take a hometown discount (as only Brady and Bruschi have). More likely is that McCourty will be offered approximately what Miguel suggests, $8M a year for the extension years. McCourty may or may not take it. The team may or may not be willing to pay enough to get McCourty. I think that the 2015 market will be higher than $8M a year.

Personally, I think that McCourty will sign before the season starts. By negotiating now, the team has put a very high value on keeping McCourty. After all, they could have chosen to negotiate with Revis first.

AzPatsFan said:

The entire discussion may ALSO imply that BB is done with FA acquisitions, without bringing in a TE like Keller or Finely...

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I don't know why you make that conclusion. As Miguel demonstrates, a $8M a year extension could be made with zero effect on the 2014 cap. The team could even extend McCourty with a slight cap reduction.

convertedpatsfan said:

I really don't understand the McCourty haters. He's a hard worker, a leader, and someone who always puts the team first. When he wasn't named a team captain last year unlike previous seasons, he just brushed it off and didn't add a single log to the fire, continuing to do his job and focus on the team. I wish we had a dozen more McCourtys.

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Belichick drafted him and there is a small contingent of idiot fans in this forum who suffer under the delusion they could do a better job and literally sh.t all over every player they pick. No player is any good, they all suck, Belichick must go because this franchise has been in the toilet for far too long. And believe it or not there are some here who actually believe that they should fire Belichick and made that argument just last week.

deters said:

The market for overpaying is 8+. Byrd and Goldson aren't worth 8m and Weddle is pushing it at 8 too. My money is on Dmac getting no more than 7. Guess we'll just have to wait and see the offers and what he signs for.

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I don't think you understand what the two bolded words mean in the context of the NFL.

pencilneckgeek said:

These are the numbers roughly that I was thinking, although a $25M guarantee sounds much too high. I would expect a guarantee in the $15M range would get it done. Let's also remember when figuring annual dollars that he's already at $4M for this year, so an extension that averages $8M/year would total $36M over the next five years (although the $$ would get shuffled, obviously).

Actually, that's pretty much the deal that Miguel suggested, if they guaranteed DMac's 2015 salary. I guess I'm not needed here.

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I think we are in the same ballpark but i went high on the Guaranteed money because i think team's have to give more up front if they want players to take less in salary. I don't think they have to match the 9-10 million a year but i do think they need to be in the same realm in terms of guaranteed money.

Byrd got 28 million guaranteed and Thomas 27.5 so i can see the Patriots giving McCourty in the area of 23-25 guaranteed.

This year's franchise tag for a Safety was $8.433 million.
In 2015 the franchise tag calculations will see the following numbers
2009 Adrian Wilson Cardinals $7,039,503
2009 Troy Polamalu Steelers $6,495,000
2009 Ed Reed Ravens $6,400,000
2009 Oshiomogho Atogwe Rams $6,342,021
2009 Chris Hope Titans $6,000,002

replaced by
2014 Eric Berry Chiefs $11,319,700
2014 Eric Weddle Chargers $10,100,000
2014 Antrell Rolle Giants $9,000,000
2014 Dashon Goldson Buccaneers $9,000,000
2014 Michael Griffin Titans $8,000,000

The 2014 cap number of $133 million will be used instead of the 2009 number of either 123 million or $127.997 million.

Based on the above it seems very likely that the 2015 franchise tag for a safety will be higher than the 2014 number of $8.433 million,.

The master of wry understatement

A terrific player who needs to be under contract for a long time.

BritPat said:

A terrific player who needs to be under contract for a long time.

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Yet you still see people here saying he isn't worth it blah blah

mgteich said:

After all, they could have chosen to negotiate with Revis first.

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While I agree with your general thoughts on the matter, I can't see what kind of sense it would have made to negotiate with a guy that you just negotiated with a couple/few months ago? After all, nothing has changed since then. We haven't even seen him play yet.

Common sense would state that they likely could have locked Revis up for a couple/few years at the 12m per year rate they are paying him for 2014, had they chosen to do so. Prior to the Sherman deal, he still would have been setting the bar for CBs, as I believe he did for AAV when he signed his deal here.

Miguel said:

This year's franchise tag for a Safety was $8.433 million.
In 2015 the franchise tag calculations will see the following numbers
2009 Adrian Wilson Cardinals $7,039,503
2009 Troy Polamalu Steelers $6,495,000
2009 Ed Reed Ravens $6,400,000
2009 Oshiomogho Atogwe Rams $6,342,021
2009 Chris Hope Titans $6,000,002

replaced by
2014 Eric Berry Chiefs $11,319,700
2014 Eric Weddle Chargers $10,100,000
2014 Antrell Rolle Giants $9,000,000
2014 Dashon Goldson Buccaneers $9,000,000
2014 Michael Griffin Titans $8,000,000

The 2014 cap number of $133 million will be used instead of the 2009 number of either 123 million or $127.997 million.

Based on the above it seems very likely that the 2015 franchise tag for a safety will be higher than the 2014 number of $8.433 million,.

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I think we saw quite a spike in the franchise numbers for the position of safety in the last year or two, and certainly agree with you that we'll see it climb to above 9m per year for the 2015 season. As a matter of fact, I have a feeling that it could climb to the 9.5 mark myself, although you would know much better.

As a fan, I will be ecstatic if we can sign McCourty to a deal in the range of 4/32, at 8m per year AAV.

I guess it's unfortunate for McCourty that he is never hurt so people can see what the defense would have looked like without him the past few years. I don't know what more he can do to prove he is one of the best safeties in the NFL.

If the Patriots can lock him up for 8m, they do it and don't think twice. I wonder if he would sign for that without testing the market first.

I don't think some of you guys have really looked at the situation at safety across the league. It's a thin position overall. So thin that the Big Bang Clock continues to find employment. You will not find an adequate replacement without lots of money or a lucky strike in the draft. You're better off keeping the guy you know can play.

supafly said:

While I agree with your general thoughts on the matter, I can't see what kind of sense it would have made to negotiate with a guy that you just negotiated with a couple/few months ago? After all, nothing has changed since then. We haven't even seen him play yet.

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Very different situations imo. With McCourty I think they can go with the high guaranteed money because he has shown he's a durable and really consistent player, i doubt a 23 million guarantee for him would bite them in the ass. Revis is a different story altogether, i think they had to move fast for him and made a deal they otherwise wouldn't have made. Not that it's a bad deal it just isn't long term, and to get it done they have to eat the poison pill of next season's cap hit, which they won't do and because he is under contract they can't franchise him they have to release him. And in Revis case i think the real issue will be the guaranteed money, unless he opts to do what he did with Tampa again and take a big salary over the guarantee, which gives the Patriots the choice of top dollar with no cap relief or giving Revis a huge guarantee.


I have always had a great deal of confidence in the Patriots when it comes to re-signing the players they want the most however Revis may present the greatest challenge to them in that regard because he is hitting 30 with a major injury and can demand the biggest contract in football at his position and be on really solid ground. Fortunately they can use some of Arrington's money to help get it done and if they really want him he will be staying for a while.

Bottom line, I think they want McCourty done because it gives them a great secondary and protects them if the can't get Revis done, which would suck but would still leave them with a good secondary even if it came to fruition.

If they somehow get both done this is going to be a phenomenal secondary for a long time to come.

mayoclinic said:

Both guys certainly have plenty of athleticism, but I don't think of either as creating mismatches so much as being incredibly smart, sound players who stabilize the defense and make everyone else better. JMO - it's probably not worth splitting hairs. Neither is particularly flashy, and both are probably under-valued by the majority of fans and by the media.

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Both are "zero maintenance" and are leaders on the field... they are prototypical Patriots who BB appreciates... he will take his lumps in the media or on the air waves, but they get confused between kindness and weakness..

Triumph said:

If Mcourty gets 8 mil per then Revis deserves twice that because he is a HOFer.

No NFL QB worth his salt fears Devin Mcourty. Jokers.

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The best safeties in the market are averaging $8-10 M a season, while CB's are getting $12-14M.

I do think McCourty is worth 8-9M. I don't think he's better than Thomas, but I think he's just as good as Byrd or Weddle.

KontradictioN said:

McCourty is simply not a corner that excels in man coverage. Nothing against him, he just doesn't do it well enough to play corner for the Patriots. He's a guy that makes his best plays because he has excellent rage and awareness with his head turned toward the ball, so he's a natural FS. Saying that he's not a good man corner is not necessarily a bad thing. Every player has things they do or don't do well. For McCourty, he's one of the better FS's in the AFC and a guy that you only want playing corner if the team is showing zone-heavy looks.

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Agreed, but I think the level of vitriol directed at him is ridiculous from some posters.

When the defense switched to more man, McCourty's strengths at corner were minimized and his weaknesses maximized, yet he never complained once, never made excuses, just continued to get better. He had obvious struggles in 2011 but was improving in 2012 before the switch to safety.

I'm not saying he would end up being the next Revis or anything, just that he did what we should all want a true Patriot to do, shut his mouth, worked hard to improve, made no excuses, and did what's best for the team.

I hope he's a Patriot for life.

Not me
I hope we cut him or he retires when he's too old to play

Some comments on the comments -

1. McCourty is one of the BEST all round defensive backs in the NFL right now. His play in his rookie year as a CB was stellar. He deserved that pro bowl nod. It slipped in 2011, but I believe that was more a factor of our changing the emphasis of the D from zone to man. McCourty played zone almost exclusively at Rutgers and suffered a learning curve when forced to play more man. A learning curve that he was improving at BEFORE he was switched to S.

2. Anyone who thinks $8MM/yr is overpaying or even the sweetspot had better re-read Miguel's latest post in the thread. The price for safeties is going up....significantly in 2015. I believe the bargaining STARTS at $9MM/yr and any deal that gets him for under $10MM/yr will be a good one.

3. Ian hasn't invented a ratings icon that truly reflects the ignorance of Triumph's post calling McCourty "soft". McCourty is an EXCELLENT tackler, who is both durable and dependable. A guy who has continually played through injury and played well.

4. Once again, people are looking to label the safety position on the Pats as if FS and SS exist. They don't. Granted that when the Pats go to a single high S, McCourty is that guy. But when they are in any kind of cover 2, its the opponents formation that dictates which S is on the strong side and who is on the weak.

The Pats DO NOT (or at least they haven't the last several years) flop their safeties. Please repeat this several time and MAYBE we'll start to get finally get why trying to label a Patriot safety either "free" or "strong" is a fools game.

5. I think if the Pats would extend Revis for $12MM/yr in a nano-second, but I think Revis' number is about 20% higher than that. That being the case, I have no expectations for Revis being a Patriot beyond the 2014 season. I'd rather wait and see how Revis views his Patriot experience after a full year and go from there.

About to create a blog post about McCourty's extension. Right now I show the contract numbers for Byrd and Thomas. SHould I show the numbers for another safety and whom? First safety with 3 responses wins.

http://www.patsfans.com/salary-cap/?p=520 is my blog post.