Free Agent DT Kevin Williams??

BUSTAMOVE · Jun 6, 2014

Keller/Finley may never play football at a high level again. Both had devastating injuries. Williams has something to offer and is healthy. Vet minimum with Incentives and a chance for a ring as a motivation factor. With Wilfork, Kelley, Easley, Armstead all with health issues to overcome. This is still a position of need. TE is also but Keller/Finley are extreme long shots.

JMC00 · Jun 10, 2014

Kevin Williams discusses Pats visit - espnBoston

The New England Patriots visited with free-agent defensive tackle Kevin Williams last Thursday, and during an appearance on Sirius XM NFL Radio today, Williams spoke about his conversations with Bill Belichick.

"He went through the roster and basically explained where I could fit in with those guys," Williams told hosts Bruce Murray and Rich Gannon. "They had a lot of injuries and they have some veteran guys coming off of injuries that play tackle, and I would have a chance to compete for a position there. Either way, we'd have a good rotation and have a chance to win some games."

"I think I still have some juice in the tank and to be in a nice rotation, it would maximize both for me and whatever team I'm with to both get the best from it," he explained."

Specific to the Vikings, Williams said, "They might be trying to ease back in the picture. We'll know more maybe as the week goes on." Overall, Williams relayed that talks with teams are "kind of picking up a little bit" and his hope is that "we can knock something out in the next week or two." He plans to play somewhere in 2014.

"My main criteria has really been having a chance to win and playing with a proven quarterback," Williams said, when asked if there is a certain level of contract he'd be willing to accept. "Those things are huge when you get older, you want to have that chance to get in the dance and just be there to have a chance at the end of the season. You don't want to take that beating all year to just go home for another offseason. ...The game in the trenches is tough enough as it is, and to not be playing for something at the end is tough at this point."

If money is all relative the fact that Daly (coached him for half his NFL career) is here may make the Pats the favorites. Although Condon is his agent and we know that whole thing.

strngplyr · Jun 10, 2014

I like that he said he's open to joining a rotation, he'd have to bet on guys like Kelly, Wilfork, Easley, and maybe Armstead not recovering fully from injury though.

Our DT spot is either one of the best in the league or biggest question marks in the entire league depending on if you look at it from a glass is half full or empty standpoint. Williams could either be a day 1 starter due to injuries or buried on the depth chart due to better (Wilfork) or potentially better (Easley/Armstead, both unknowns though) players ahead of him. Kelly would be the guy he has to beat and then hold off some younger guys.

The thing keeping me torn on the idea right now is that to keep Williams, who has been an outstanding player, and is probably much better right NOW than Siligia and Jones, do we want to dump players who have shown some good potential for a player who might only stick around for a year or 2?

Deus Irae · Jun 10, 2014

strngplyr said:
I like that he said he's open to joining a rotation, he'd have to bet on guys like Kelly, Wilfork, Easley, and maybe Armstead not recovering fully from injury though.

Our DT spot is either one of the best in the league or biggest question marks in the entire league depending on if you look at it from a glass is half full or empty standpoint. Williams could either be a day 1 starter due to injuries or buried on the depth chart due to better (Wilfork) or potentially better (Easley/Armstead, both unknowns though) players ahead of him. Kelly would be the guy he has to beat and then hold off some younger guys.

The thing keeping me torn on the idea right now is that to keep Williams, who has been an outstanding player, and is probably much better right NOW than Siligia and Jones, do we want to dump players who have shown some good potential for a player who might only stick around for a year or 2?

If you've got a 90%-100% Wilfork, a 90%-100% Kelly and a 100% Williams, you can bump Wilfork out to DE on occasion without destroying your interior line, too. You can put a whole lot of beef on the line for some situational football.

Wilfork
Kelly
Williams
Easley
Armstead/Silaga/Jones/Vellano

Carrying 5 should be easy, especially if you're looking at Easley and Armstead as hybrids. Carrying 6 may be a bit more difficult, but it could probably be done if they're going to keep a low number of LBs and use Nink as a hybrid DE/OLB.

strngplyr · Jun 10, 2014

Deus Irae said:
If you've got a 90%-100% Wilfork, a 90%-100% Kelly and a 100% Williams, you can bump Wilfork out to DE on occasion without destroying your interior line, too. You can put a whole lot of beef on the line for some situational football.

Wilfork
Kelly
Williams
Easley
Armstead/Silaga/Jones/Vellano

Carrying 5 should be easy, especially if you're looking at Easley and Armstead as hybrids. Carrying 6 may be a bit more difficult, but it could probably be done if they're going to keep a low number of LBs and use Nink as a hybrid DE/OLB.

But do you sacrifice the young Wilfork/Kelly combination (obviously, I know they aren't the same caliber) in Jones/Siliga to keep Williams? Can't keep everyone.

Things could clear up and become much easier if Kelly/Armstead get cut/PUP'd, they seem to be farther behind Wilfork and Easley at this point in their recoveries.

mgteich · Jun 10, 2014

The reality is that no significant player would need to be cut from the 90 man roster to sign Williams.
Whatever bonus/guarantee he gets would be an insurance policy.

We certainly could carry 10 DL's. But sure, if EVERYONE were healthy and looked good, Belichick would be in the GREAT position of having to cut (or trade) a good player or two. More likely is that some of the players will not be good enough or healthy enough to be close to beating out Williams for a roster spot.

strngplyr said:
I like that he said he's open to joining a rotation, he'd have to bet on guys like Kelly, Wilfork, Easley, and maybe Armstead not recovering fully from injury though.

Our DT spot is either one of the best in the league or biggest question marks in the entire league depending on if you look at it from a glass is half full or empty standpoint. Williams could either be a day 1 starter due to injuries or buried on the depth chart due to better (Wilfork) or potentially better (Easley/Armstead, both unknowns though) players ahead of him. Kelly would be the guy he has to beat and then hold off some younger guys.

The thing keeping me torn on the idea right now is that to keep Williams, who has been an outstanding player, and is probably much better right NOW than Siligia and Jones, do we want to dump players who have shown some good potential for a player who might only stick around for a year or 2?

Deus Irae · Jun 10, 2014

strngplyr said:
But do you sacrifice the young Wilfork/Kelly combination (obviously, I know they aren't the same caliber) in Jones/Siliga to keep Williams? Can't keep everyone.

Things could clear up and become much easier if Kelly/Armstead get cut/PUP'd, they seem to be farther behind Wilfork and Easley at this point in their recoveries.

JMO, naturally, but I think the bolded part is you answering your own question. Keeping 5 should be easy. For the sake of keeping a 'big body' in, I'll put the young guys in this order: Silaga, Armstead, Jones, Vellano*:

Wilfork
Kelly
Williams
Easley
Silaga
Armstead**
Jones**
Vellano

Then it just becomes a matter of how many you can carry, unless you're willing to risk Armstead on a practice squad move. You'd have at least Easley/Silaga around if you carry 5, though, so youth would still be served. PUP possibilities (Wilfork/Kelly) and suspension (Browner) lead to the possibility of carrying more to start the season, while the seemingly likely extra QB undercuts that a bit.

*I'm just making the order to make an order and to keep some beef in the younger group. I'm not necessarily assuming that this is how the team currently has them slotted.

** Part of the question for these players, I think, boils down to just how much change the Patriots are planning with their DT style. Those two players are a lot more likely to make the team if BB is going to go whole hog with a 1 gap attacking style at DT than they are if BB is still going to look at DT as a stop first, attack later defensive position.

mgteich · Jun 10, 2014

Deus Irae said:
If you've got a 90%-100% Wilfork, a 90%-100% Kelly and a 100% Williams, you can bump Wilfork out to DE on occasion without destroying your interior line, too. You can put a whole lot of beef on the line for some situational football.

Wilfork
Kelly
Williams
Easley
Armstead/Silaga/Jones/Vellano

Carrying 5 should be easy, especially if you're looking at Easley and Armstead as hybrids. Carrying 6 may be a bit more difficult, but it could probably be done if they're going to keep a low number of LBs and use Nink as a hybrid DE/OLB.

If Wilfork is at 90-100%, Kelly is at 90-100% and Williams is at 100%, we would have a GREAT set of defensive tackles with these three plus Easley and Siliga (Wilfork's backup). The alternative is Chris Jones who would essentially be replaced by Williams in this scenario.

We could still carry 5 DE's. As you say, Easley may play some DE. We should be fine with Ninkovich,
Jones, Smith, Buchanan and Armstead.

Deus Irae · Jun 10, 2014

mgteich said:
If Wilfork is at 90-100%, Kelly is at 90-100% and Williams is at 100%, we would have a GREAT set of defensive tackles with these three plus Easley and Siliga (Wilfork's backup). The alternative is Chris who would essentially be replaced by Williams in this scenario.

We could still carry 5 DE's. As you say, Easley may play some DE. We should be fine with Ninkovich,
Jones, Smith, Buchanan and Armstead.

I hear you. I also think that Smith becomes less of a need if some combination of the following looks legit in training camp and preseason

Easley and/or Wilfork is bouncing outside some, in order to spell Nink/Jones
Armstead is able to show ability from both DT and DE
Smith isn't getting it done
Buchanan shows real progress and isn't looking to make everything a sprint to get in back of the QB

There are a lot of "if" questions to be looked at, but "if" Armstead works out, and "if" what Silaga showed last year was legit promise rather than just a lucky run, and "if" Jones did the same, and "if" Easley can bounce outside, and "if" Nink is really capable of playing real snap numbers at OLB, and "if" Wilfork and Kelly are healthy, and "if" the team brings in Williams, the Patriots would be looking at a great deal of rotational depth and a serious ability to be situational while resting the old guys.

strngplyr · Jun 10, 2014

Deus Irae said:
JMO, naturally, but I think the bolded part is you answering your own question. Keeping 5 should be easy. For the sake of keeping a 'big body' in, I'll put the young guys in this order: Silaga, Armstead, Jones, Vellano*:

Wilfork
Kelly
Williams
Easley
Silaga
Armstead**
Jones**
Vellano

Then it just becomes a matter of how many you can carry, unless you're willing to risk Armstead on a practice squad move. You'd have at least Easley/Silaga around if you carry 5, though, so youth would still be served. PUP possibilities (Wilfork/Kelly) and suspension (Browner) lead to the possibility of carrying more to start the season, while the seemingly likely extra QB undercuts that a bit.

*I'm just making the order to make an order and to keep some beef in the younger group. I'm not necessarily assuming that this is how the team currently has them slotted.

** Part of the question for these players, I think, boils down to just how much change the Patriots are planning with their DT style. Those two players are a lot more likely to make the team if BB is going to go whole hog with a 1 gap attacking style at DT than they are if BB is still going to look at DT as a stop first, attack later defensive position.

I agree thinking about 2014, but I'm thinking ahead a little, do we want our top 3 DT's to be drafted in 2003, 4, and 5? It's not a bad spot for 2014, but that leaves the potential for a 2015 DT lineup of Easley + another rookie. The future is too unknown with the older guys, we'll be right back to 2013 post injury DT depth playing starting roles if the Vets can't do it anymore.

Deus Irae · Jun 10, 2014

strngplyr said:
I agree thinking about 2014, but I'm thinking ahead a little, do we want our top 3 DT's to be drafted in 2003, 4, and 5? It's not a bad spot for 2014, but that leaves the potential for a 2015 DT lineup of Easley + another rookie. The future is too unknown with the older guys, we'll be right back to 2013 post injury DT depth playing starting roles if the Vets can't do it anymore.

Well, your scenario is effectively looking at the trio

Kelly
Wilfork
Williams

and making the assumption that all 3 will be gone next year. You're also assuming only 4 DTs (or using rookie to mean one of the young guys rather than a real rookie). I'm assuming that Williams pretty much guarantees 5 DTs. I also don't think all 3 of the above trio are likely to retire, or be so bad that they can't remain as even rotational players next year, although I agree that it's at least a plausible scenario. Looking at it from my side, I'm looking at having at least 2 young DTs and an older DT as part of the rotation, before looking at rookies or FA signings.

I'm looking at the win/loss in that scenario and finding it acceptable, because I didn't see anything from Silaga/Jones/Vellano/Armstead last year that made me consider them locks as top players of the future. Of course,those young guys can make it a moot point by showing real improvement and legitimately high levels of play leading up to final cuts.

Brady6 · Jun 10, 2014

They could go bigger in a 4-3 under

SAM – Hightower, Ninkovich
LE – Easley, Armstead
NT – Wilfork, Siliga
DT – Kelly, Williams
RE – Jones, Ninkovich, Buchanan
MIKE – Mayo, Hightower, Beauharnais
WILL – Collins, Mayo, Anderson

Brady6 · Jun 10, 2014

Deus Irae said:
I hear you. I also think that Smith becomes less of a need if some combination of the following looks legit in training camp and preseason

Easley and/or Wilfork is bouncing outside some, in order to spell Nink/Jones

Armstead is able to show ability from both DT and DE

Smith isn't getting it done

Buchanan shows real progress and isn't looking to make everything a sprint to get in back of the QB

There are a lot of "if" questions to be looked at, but "if" Armstead works out, and "if" what Silaga showed last year was legit promise rather than just a lucky run, and "if" Jones did the same, and "if" Easley can bounce outside, and "if" Nink is really capable of playing real snap numbers at OLB, and "if" Wilfork and Kelly are healthy, and "if" the team brings in Williams, the Patriots would be looking at a great deal of rotational depth and a serious ability to be situational while resting the old guys.

I expect Will Smith will start the season on PUP personally.

Deus Irae · Jun 10, 2014

Brady6 said:
They could go bigger in a 4-3 under

SAM – Hightower, Ninkovich
LE – Easley, Armstead
NT – Wilfork, Siliga
DT – Kelly, Williams
RE – Jones, Ninkovich, Buchanan
MIKE – Mayo, Hightower, Beauharnais
WILL – Collins, Mayo, Anderson

One thing that I find interesting is the possibility of playing LB/DE games by lining up Nink and Hightower right next to each other and forcing the OL to guess which one is going to be the DE for that play.

strngplyr · Jun 10, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Well, your scenario is effectively looking at the trio

Kelly
Wilfork
Williams

and making the assumption that all 3 will be gone next year. You're also assuming only 4 DTs (or using rookie to mean one of the young guys rather than a real rookie). I'm assuming that Williams pretty much guarantees 5 DTs. I also don't think all 3 of the above trio are likely to retire, or be so bad that they can't remain as even rotational players next year, although I agree that it's at least a plausible scenario. Looking at it from my side, I'm looking at having at least 2 young DTs and an older DT as part of the rotation, before looking at rookies or FA signings.

I'm looking at the win/loss in that scenario and finding it acceptable, because I didn't see anything from Silaga/Jones/Vellano/Armstead last year that made me consider them locks as top players of the future. Of course,those young guys can make it a moot point by showing real improvement and legitimately high levels of play leading up to final cuts.

Yeah, my scenario is definitely a doomsday scenario (and probably an unlikely one), I just don't like taking the risk of potentially losing the best 3 DT's on the roster and being left with Easley + whoever wasn't cut to make room for Williams. I love the idea of signing Williams I would just like to have an extra young guy learning the system and maturing into NFL form.

Brady6 · Jun 10, 2014

Deus Irae said:
One thing that I find interesting is the possibility of playing LB/DE games by lining up Nink and Hightower right next to each other and forcing the OL to guess which one is going to be the DE for that play.

Yeah that would be interesting; you could even do it to some degree on the other side with Jones and Collins.

mgteich · Jun 10, 2014

strngplyr said:
Yeah, my scenario is definitely a doomsday scenario (and probably an unlikely one), I just don't like taking the risk of potentially losing the best 3 DT's on the roster and being left with Easley + whoever wasn't cut to make room for Williams. I love the idea of signing Williams I would just like to have an extra young guy learning the system and maturing into NFL form.

Let's say that we carry Armstead or Chris Jones as the 10th DL, in addition to keeping Siliga as the #5 DT.
This would gives us the 3 older vets and the 3 kids at DT. At DE, We would have Ninkovich, Jones, Buchanan and Smith (or another veteran DE). We also have the possibility of Hightower playing some DE. I don't think that we are in bad shape keeping the 4 vets if they are all healthy. I suspect that a couple will be back if they start the season healthy this year. But even if they all go, we will still have a good base for next year.

lurker1965 · Jun 10, 2014

BelichickFan said:
I think we have enough DTs to work through right now.

I agree, but... if we go to a 5-2...
I'm joking, but in a way I'm serious and think I can't be serious.

The 5-2 was weak against runs, especially with a Full Back. It is now a passing game... but I can't be right, no matter if it makes sense to my fevered imagination.

I can tell you what's wrong with a 5-2, and would agree with anyone telling me why it won't work.

Still, though, it is intriguing and we seem to be heavy on DTs at the expense of LBs.

That said, a RB getting to the second level...

Brady_to_Moss · Jun 10, 2014

Still think he goes back to Vikings in the end

strngplyr · Jun 10, 2014

Brady_to_Moss said:
Still think he goes back to Vikings in the end

He did mention he wants a quarterback in place wherever he goes, while the Vikings themselves may be interested, I'm not sure he would be. I believe he only said that the Vikings are interested in him returning, not the other way around.

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