ESPN SAM MONSON: Tom Brady is no longer a top-5 QB

PatsWickedPissah said:

mine too. Hell, half the Micks were named Fitz, no?

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It would appear that way Pissah. I would think we may be related but all of my relatives are either back home or scattered around the world, the USA is the one place you won't find 99% of them.

Ok, I officially think this guy is a moron listening to him PFW in Progress. He dismisses Brady's stats when Gronk was playing because he said that any QB would have good numbers with a healthy Gronk. So Manning having Demarius Thomas doesn't help his numbers? Or Jimmy Graham with Drew Brees? None of the PFW guys called him on that particular argument.

The guys at PFW are morons for having him on, nopt too mention allowing him to talk crap without calling him on it.


Jesus I hate PFF.

The fact that some people here still think PFF isn't garbage kinda astounds me. Hopefully this will convince the holdouts.

Ivan said:

The guys at PFW are morons for having him on, nopt too mention allowing him to talk crap without calling him on it.


Jesus I hate PFF.

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Well, the thing is some of the guys on PFW have been making the argument that Brady is declining. And Fred is not in the studio today.

Of course, after Monson got off the air, Paul Perillo stated that the article focused too much on the one metric of passes under pressure too much to prove his point.

Rob0729 said:

Well, the thing is some of the guys on PFW have been making the argument that Brady is declining. And Fred is not in the studio today.

Of course, after Monson got off the air, Paul Perillo stated that the article focused too much on the one metric of passes under pressure too much to prove his point.

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Congratulations to Perillo for having the balls to call Monson on his idiotic argument after he left the studio, that took courage.



I have yet to find anyone who thinks Brady will have a worse 2014 than 2013, other than the trolls, of course, and that's because everyone knows his receiving corps was the reason he was down some last season.

BradyFTW! said:

The fact that some people here still think PFF isn't garbage kinda astounds me. Hopefully this will convince the holdouts.

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That's because they find it useful for fantasy football and want to be able to cite their idiotic metrics in this forum. Unfortunately it is the direction everything is going and the PFF's of the world will win out in the end and everyone will just be talking about numbers.

Rob0729 said:

Ok, I officially think this guy is a moron listening to him PFW in Progress. He dismisses Brady's stats when Gronk was playing because he said that any QB would have good numbers with a healthy Gronk. So Manning having Demarius Thomas doesn't help his numbers? Or Jimmy Graham with Drew Brees? None of the PFW guys called him on that particular argument.

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What you fail to understand, is that Manning is so stupendously wonderful that his aura rubs off on his receivers. Thomas was never a stud, Manning made him look like an All Pro! Welker never put up great numbers before that, it was all Manning. That Superbowl loss was a total **** up on the part of Denver's receivers, as they failed to get on the same mental plane that Peyton Manning was operating on. Now, allow us to look at Brady. His group of receivers was awesome. Aside from Gronk, he had the unstoppable Julian Edelmen, a Danny Amendola who lacked the ability to make quick cuts, a Shane Vereen who never suffered any sort of injury, a second Randy Moss in the form of Aaron Dobson, and a future Hall of Famer in Kembrell Thompkins. And let us not discount the Pats TE group, which was by far the deepest in the league.

I have displayed the ability to write a long winded, asinine argument. You guys think I could get a job writing for PFF?

Now while articles like the one Monson put together are irritating, but in the great scheme of things, sometimes I think we take them a bit too personal. In fact I almost relish the disrespect and the questions that surround Brady and the Pats this season. I long for the old days where the "disrespect card" was played so well by Rodney and his boys. Let them talk their talk, while we "walk the walk"

I take solace is knowing that at THIS moment Brady has that article posted in his locker and is on the field RIGHT now working with House to improve to improve his deep passing game. There is no need to dismiss or "hate" sites like PFF and FO's. They provide good starting points for valuable discussions. The key is to understand where they can err, and what information can be misleading. In other words they are always useful as long as you take them with a grain of salt and understand their limitations. The Pats are using very similar metrics. The big difference is that, because they better know the individual responsibilities, call, and after-snap adjustments, their evaluations are MUCH less subjective and far more accurate.

So, let that *********** otherwise known as Jetsinsider.com win another June war. These kind of articles are wet dreams for them. SO WHAT! They are Freakin' Jet fans. If you have been a Pats fans for more than 20 years, you have an inkling of how painful that must be. These are fans who think the Playoff win against the Pats in 2010 is the BEST win in Jet history since 1969. That's a LOOOOONNNNG time between drinks 45 years of pretty much abject failure and irrelevancy will warp the soundest minds. So give them this moment in the sun. They need it so badly. We should be grateful enough of our long recent success to not begrudge them this small bit of relief to their constant agony. Even when we know its so flawed.

I may have disagreed with some of the moves the FO has made this off season, but overall, I like this team and how its being built thus far. The front line talent and quality depth is much better than recent years. And if we like the way this team is lining up now, we are going to LOVE the final version in September.

We all saw Forehead on the biggest stage. His one title came when his below average defense suddenly played awesome, and he threw 3 TD's and 7 INT's through four playoff games. Drew Brees is a stat padding dome QB. Roethlisberger? It's very telling when I read a comment from a Steelers fan talking about Brady's 2013 decline. He said that he's still waiting for Roethlisberger to even have a season like Brady did in 2013, but he's given up on it.

patfanken said:

Now while articles like the one Monson put together are irritating, bit in the great scheme of things, sometimes I think we take them a bit too personal. In fact I almost relish the disrespect and the questions that surround Brady and the Pats this season.I long for the old days where the "disrespect card" was played so well by Rodney and his boys. Let them talk their talk, while we "walk the walk"

I take solace is knowing that st THIS moment Brady has that article posted in his locker and is on the field RIGHT now working with House to improve to improve his deep passing game. There is no need to dismiss or "hate" sites like PFF and FO's. They provide good starting points for valuable discussions. The key is to understand where they can err, and what information can be misleading. In other words they are always useful as long as you take them with a grain of salt and understand their limitations.

Let that *********** otherwise known as Jetsinsider.com win another June war. These kind of articles are wet dreams for them. SO WHAT! They are Freakin' Jet fans. If you have been a Pats fans for more than 20 years, you have an inkling of how painful that must be. These are fans who think the Playoff win against the Pats in 2010 is the BEST win in Jet history since 1969. That's a LOOOOONNNNG time between drinks 45 years of pretty much abject failure and irrelevancy will warp the soundest minds. So give them this moment in the sun. They need it so badly. We should be grateful enough of our long success to not begrudge them this small bit of hope. Even when we know its so flawed.

I may have disagreed with some of the moves the FO has made this off season, but overall, I like this team and how its being built thus far. The front line talent and quality depth is much better than recent years. And if we like the way this team is lining up now, we are going to LOVE the final version in September.

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That's a good point, but I'd point out that these "Brady/Pats are nearing their end" articles have popped up since at least the end of the 09' season. Mediots questioning the Pats ability to win is nothing new. I'd say this article is a bit more asinine than the previous ones, however.

In regards to this article in particular, I think some posters (or at least I am), are annoyed with the supplementary points made, in addition to "Brady is declining". This article holds up Manning as the standard that all QB's must emulate, despite the fact that his decline is more evident than Brady's. The article goes on to state that Roethlisberger has somehow surpassed Brady, and that Luck will surpass him, despite making little to no valid arguments in support of these claims.

The writer of this article, if Rob0729 is correct, subsequently discounted Brady's better games in 13', by saying that any QB would put up those numbers with Gronk.

Granted, these articles are written with the intent of stirring up controversy, and we shouldn't give morons like Monson their time of the day. However, the man has successfully crafted a fallacious argument that annoys me in it's sheer idiocy, even if I do realize that I am to blame for bothering to hear what Monson has to say.

Let's face it, this is nothing but a writer who wanted someone/anyone to notice him so he wrote something as outlandish as Brady is not a top 5 QB.

Let's take a poll of NFL fans: who would you want as your starting QB coming opening day 2014, your current QB or Tom Brady?

I think only Denver fans might choose their current QB, maybe Colts fans because of age, plus of course Drew Bree's and Aaron Rodger's respective mothers, but that is about it!

Imagine if Brady ever had the talent that Manning has had over the years! He had it for one year, 2007, and he shattered every record Manning had. I challenge Manning to make the AFC Championship game with Reche Caldwell as your #1 WR!

FreeTedWilliams said:

Let's face it, this is nothing but a writer who wanted someone/anyone to notice him so he wrote something as outlandish as Brady is not a top 5 QB.

Let's take a poll of NFL fans: who would you want as your starting QB coming opening day 2014, your current QB or Tom Brady?

I think only Denver fans might choose their current QB, maybe Colts fans because of age, plus of course Drew Bree's and Aaron Rodger's respective mothers, but that is about it!

Imagine if Brady ever had the talent that Manning has had over the years! He had it for one year, 2007, and he shattered every record Manning had. I challenge Manning to make the AFC Championship game with Reche Caldwell as your #1 WR!

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I dunno, I've met a couple of Seahawks and Niners fans who would take their respective QBs due to age as well.

Ken,

I too like the way that BB is and has been re-building quality into the Team.

The Offense is now deep everywhere and even acceptable at TE. The tackles are superior; the interior has a lot of quality added to it. The WRs are numerous and the TE position is superior if not deep, featuring the best TE in the League.

The RBs are better than just RBBCs need be; and even the QB position is full of talented but untested reserves, in addition to a starter who is in the argument as the GOAT.

Still, Monson's observations are sound. Denial is the first objection of the uninformed. BB by his actions knows that TB is not what he was when he was 30. He may have lost some long-ball ability, but he never had much to start with. More importantly, it is not and never was his game. His talent lies in hyper-accuracy and bullet velocity throws in the short and intermediate routes. That and great ability to dissect a Defense and find the weaknesses, and then the talent to exploit those insights.

He may have lost some pocket shuffling elusiveness, but that is a discussion topic and conjectures based on raw receivers and interior O-line issues, may or may not pertain.

But he is still a top QB. Someone good enough to guide and to win double digit games/season and fight it out as a finalist in the playoffs. But now we have a pair of alternatives both of whom look good enough to carry on, if they are called upon.


PS: Has anyone considered the implication for the re-building Defense that Belichick considers that he had the luxury and can devote virtually an entire Draft to adding to a Top 3 Offense?

He has added a QB, WR, RB, Center, Guard and Tackle. The only position not augmented was TE, but the Patriots already have the best TE in the league there, and an adequate if not a star sub. BB may have decided the easiest alternative to the loss of Gronk may be more 3 or 4 wides, now that he has them.

AzPatsFan said:

Ken,
Still Monson's observations are sound. Denial is the first objection of the uninformed. BB is not what he was when he was 30. He may have lost some long-ball ability, but he never had much to start with; More importantly, it is not and never was his game. His talent lies in hyper-accuracy and bullet velocity throws in the short and intermediate routes. That and great ability to dissect a Defense and find the weaknesses, and then the talent to exploit those insights.

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I concur, Belichick really isn't the man he was during the prime of his life .

But I agree with your point, even if I think Monson is a hack writer.

It Is What It Is >> Pro Football Focus' Sam Monson on D&C: ‘[Tom] Brady’s decline has been in action for a while now’

But I think the point I was trying to make was that Brady’s decline has been in action for a while now and all the receivers did was make it look worse than it would’ve done already.

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When you start pushing an opinion that completely contradicts your own rating system, you're probably best off shutting up completely.

Tom Curran's counter

In defense of Brady as a top QB in the NFL | CSNNE.com

ESPN loves Brady, they are promoting this story for controversy that fires him up.

Plus this guy is a nobody, this would be a better story if someone like Dilfer was saying he sucks.

Efstratios said:

I concur, Belichick really isn't the man he was during the prime of his life .

But I agree with your point, even if I think Monson is a hack writer.

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Thanks, I corrected the typo and made it clearer what I meant to say...

patfanken said:

Now while articles like the one Monson put together are irritating, bit in the great scheme of things, sometimes I think we take them a bit too personal. In fact I almost relish the disrespect and the questions that surround Brady and the Pats this season. I long for the old days where the "disrespect card" was played so well by Rodney and his boys. Let them talk their talk, while we "walk the walk"

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I am fine with anything credible what I hate is having the least credible garbage trotted out as though it has merit (Not a shot at the OP). PFF has zero credibility, this is a site that didn't have Brady in the top 30 players in the league the season he won the MVP unanimously. And the moron who wrote the piece apparently went on PFW and claimed that Brady's numbers with Gronk were irrelevant because any QB would be good with him. So apparently Sam believes the only test of a QB is when they are only throwing to players they have never thrown to before or aren't any good. Great argument Sam, what a f.cking genius, almost as good as those claiming Manning was the MVP the year he didn't play. You simply cannot make this sh.t up.


The best thing this site could do with PFF is to treat it as if it were the Ebola Virus and look to expunge it and quarantine it at all costs.