Dreams of a WR Trade

Gymrat said:

What he said

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What he is saying is that Belichick should be fired, that he has you on his side is not surprising.

I am walking through the valley of trolls right now.

Ivan said:

Flat out lie, you were clearly talking about Belichick and you know it. You want to play troll go ahead, i'm not interested in that crap.

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No, if you look at my exact words you'll see that Belichick was not mentioned, reading is fundamental.

pctronics0072 said:

I think the problem is that we are making and judging Bill's decisions with the benefit of hindsight that he cannot have when making them. I think he is doing about as good of a job as can be done.

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His drafting for a good while was Horrid. Among the worst in the NFL if not the worst. He botched completely 2 consecutive drafts 06-07. In 05 he found a guard in the first which is nothing to brag about. Rest of draft was a mudslide. In 08 he found a LB in top 10. Rest of it was a wipeout again. In 09 found a very good RT. When your considered such a genius,more is expected. From 06-08 One Starter. Even when he began taking his scouts advise and drafting better he continued with head scratching decisions any average fan saw it a bust in the making. Jermaine Cunningham, Tavon Wilson.

Everybody is so frustrated with ignoring WR because its a position where one legit addition makes everybody on offense so much better and more effective it would be like adding 3 more great players. It would create more space for every other player on offense and make them each much better players because Tom Brady will take advantage of that better than any other qb. It makes the entire offense incredibly more lethal when that legit feared WR threat takes up so much attention from the defense. Imagine what Gronk could do if there was a feared WR. Vereen would be $$ in the bank all day if there was a wr Taking up every DBs efforts. Dobson paired with Lee,Sanders,Johnson,Richardson, Latimer is lethal and opens things up everywhere. Even more lethal than Moss as these guys run more routes. Moss and Welker were great at what they did but both were limited to what they did. That combination can threaten the entire field at any time. Throw in Gronk and Vereen a supercharged caulk with Brady who can go through progressions like no other QB and who does the defense want to get beaten by on this play. Throw in our better OLine and 2007 couldn't compare. I mean we just need ONE legit feared wr to make it fly. Not a Calvin,just a Lee,Sanders,Johnson or healthy Maclin. And nobody stops this offense. I love the OLine additions BTW. Even Halapio has underrated athleticism. And Fleming at a mobile powerful 6'5 330 could upgrade over aging Mankind. Stork is huge upgrade at center and getting bigger/stronger every day. Halapio and Cannon compete for RG. I like Cannon slightly more. But he should put back on mass he lost b4 rookie season. He was considered a 360lb dancing bear and a crushing drive blocker with minimal effort,it looked easy to him. He was knocked for not looking as if giving top effort. He didn't need to he was so powerful. His power at 330 hasn't been the same and even criticized at times. The team needs to leave him at guard which is his best position and help him put that muscle back on. Perhaps he remained at 325-330 to better play tackle. Would you prefer an allpro guard or an OK RT. Kaczur could have been a decent RG. He was an embarrassment at RT. Had we drafted any of those really good tackles 05-07 to replace Kaczur, we win the championship in 2007. Kaczur was dominated by a declining Strahan. If Strachan isn't knocking down Tom Brady repeatedly we go 19-0. Had we drafted Roos,Whitworth,McNeil,Staley etc. I truly believe we go 19-0. With just one legit semi-feared playmaking WR, IMHO this team is better in every way.

AzPatsFan said:

... I see the same thing happening here in Foxboro. It simply is not true that Belichick is a terrible GM, and that he can't draft or acquire talent. His record reveals how many Pro Bowl players he has found drafting at the tail end of the Draft every year. The record shows how many shrewd acquisitions he has found among the supposed detritus of other teams rosters. The record is unsurpassed for finding over looked talent in the past-over, UDFA rookies.

The overall record of never having posted a losing record, save in his first re-organization season here, is uncontested. No other team has anywhere near as good a winning record,encompassing as it does through about three generations of players.

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AzPatsFan is talking about Belichick, correct?

Snake Eyes said:

People said the game passed Tom Landry, and it seems they were correct.

Miami has declined since Shula left, I wonder how much of that was due to having a HoF QB to...not having one.

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Now you want to imply that when you quoted AzPatsFan post and made these comments about Shula's and Landry's having let the game pass them by, that you were in fact NOT making any reference to Belichick's ability as a headcoach?

Mmm...

Snake Eyes said:

No, if you look at my exact words you'll see that Belichick was not mentioned, reading is fundamental.

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I think Ivan understands reading fundamentals just fine.

Snake Eyes said:

No, if you look at my exact words you'll see that Belichick was not mentioned, reading is fundamental.

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You can try to play games but there is no question whatsover that you are talking about Belichick in relation to Landry and Shula, which is why you referred to the number of years Landry went without winning a Super Bowl, and to try and pretend that you were just talking about some imaginary coach is just trolling. You want to do that sh.t and I have no use for it.

Later troll.

Gymrat said:

His drafting for a good while was Horrid. Among the worst in the NFL if not the worst. He botched completely 2 consecutive drafts 06-07. In 05 he found a guard in the first which is nothing to brag about. Rest of draft was a mudslide. In 08 he found a LB in top 10. Rest of it was a wipeout again. In 09 found a very good RT. When your considered such a genius,more is expected. From 06-08 One Starter. Even when he began taking his scouts advise and drafting better he continued with head scratching decisions any average fan saw it a bust in the making. Jermaine Cunningham, Tavon Wilson.

Everybody is so frustrated with ignoring WR because its a position where one legit addition makes everybody on offense so much better and more effective it would be like adding 3 more great players. It would create more space for every other player on offense and make them each much better players because Tom Brady will take advantage of that better than any other qb. It makes the entire offense incredibly more lethal when that legit feared WR threat takes up so much attention from the defense. Imagine what Gronk could do if there was a feared WR. Vereen would be $$ in the bank all day if there was a wr Taking up every DBs efforts. Dobson paired with Lee,Sanders,Johnson,Richardson, Latimer is lethal and opens things up everywhere. Even more lethal than Moss as these guys run more routes. Moss and Welker were great at what they did but both were limited to what they did. That combination can threaten the entire field at any time. Throw in Gronk and Vereen a supercharged caulk with Brady who can go through progressions like no other QB and who does the defense want to get beaten by on this play. Throw in our better OLine and 2007 couldn't compare. I mean we just need ONE legit feared wr to make it fly. Not a Calvin,just a Lee,Sanders,Johnson or healthy Maclin. And nobody stops this offense. I love the OLine additions BTW. Even Halapio has underrated athleticism. And Fleming at a mobile powerful 6'5 330 could upgrade over aging Mankind. Stork is huge upgrade at center and getting bigger/stronger every day. Halapio and Cannon compete for RG. I like Cannon slightly more. But he should put back on mass he lost b4 rookie season. He was considered a 360lb dancing bear and a crushing drive blocker with minimal effort,it looked easy to him. He was knocked for not looking as if giving top effort. He didn't need to he was so powerful. His power at 330 hasn't been the same and even criticized at times. The team needs to leave him at guard which is his best position and help him put that muscle back on. Perhaps he remained at 325-330 to better play tackle. Would you prefer an allpro guard or an OK RT. Kaczur could have been a decent RG. He was an embarrassment at RT. Had we drafted any of those really good tackles 05-07 to replace Kaczur, we win the championship in 2007. Kaczur was dominated by a declining Strahan. If Strachan isn't knocking down Tom Brady repeatedly we go 19-0. Had we drafted Roos,Whitworth,McNeil,Staley etc. I truly believe we go 19-0. With just one legit semi-feared playmaking WR, IMHO this team is better in every way.

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I know it, Belichick was only able to go 18-1, and was a fluke catch from a title. Had they only had you making the decision s they would have gone 19-0. What a shame.



Seriously, you guys are so frigging deluded it is beyond belief. If Belichick only followed your imaginary decisions they would have 10 rings.



On the r hand I am sure you aren't talking about Belichcik but the imaginary coach of the Patriots, just like Snake Eyes.

Gymrat said:

We have to see what Pete Carroll does next couple years. His drafting has been good and he continues to upgrade to repeat including WR position. Jimmy Johnson built a very dominant team. If he wanted to be a GM again,that would at least spark interest. Not saying it would happen. But most give him the nod over Bill as a bettet coach/GM

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The Seahawks have a QB on a third round rookie contract that allots them significant cap space. When you consider that they had minimal cap space despite having a QB that makes less than $1M a season the team building is not nearly as impressive. This year they lost –

Golden Tate
Chris Clemons
Red Bryant
Brandon Browner
Clinton McDonald
Walter Thurmond

Carroll’s drafting has not been that great, look at it; he has a ton of misses.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/draft.htm

Danger Zone said:

Now you want to imply that when you quoted AzPatsFan post and made these comments about Shula's and Landry's having let the game pass them by, that you were in fact NOT making any reference to Belichick's ability as a headcoach?

I think Ivan understands reading fundamentals just fine.

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Apparently fans who say "the game has passed him by" don't know what they're talking about, and I just provided a pretty concrete example of that being exactly the case. This doesn't mean this is or isn't true of BB, only that his claim is incorrect.

Belichick is not going fired ever, and nor should he be, he will all but certainly go down as the greatest coach to ever do it. That said if you do not recognize that he as every other GM and head coach has made his fair share of mistakes you are blind.

Whether you want to recognize it or not Aaron Hernandez is the most heinous person to take the field in a NFL game, he has tarnished this franchise in a way that no other player has ever tarnished a team. Now you can sit here, say how was Belichick, and the team supposed to know? Well I am not saying they were supposed to know, but no other team has ever had a player charged with the crimes that Hernandez is charged with so something went wrong here or we caught some really ****ty luck, either way that is a big stain. On top of that, he has missed on a number of draft picks such as Dowling, Wilson, Bequette, etc.

We are very fortunate to have a great coach, and a great team, but that does not mean we are supposed to run around like blind idiots stomping our feet every time some dares to acknowledge a negative. Belichick and the Patriots have ****ed up just as we all **** up at our jobs on a daily basis, the difference is nobody is on the internet calling the people who notices our ****s names because it upsets them...

Brady6 said:

The Seahawks have a QB on a third round rookie contract that allots them significant cap space. When you consider that they had minimal cap space despite having a QB that makes less than $1M a season the team building is not nearly as impressive.

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http://www.nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

How do you define minimal?

Does every team have to lose players each season in order to make room for their draft picks?

Miguel said:

http://www.nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

How do you define minimal?

Does every team have to lose players each season in order to make room for their draft picks?

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They have $1.8M in cap space; their starting QB is making less than $1M a season. Consider the average NFL QB makes north of $12M and that is minimal in my opinion anyway. That said you are a cap expert, recognized throughout this area by fans, media members and more, and I am a cap idiot so I could be wrong, it just seems like they should have more space considering most of their best players are on rookie deals or entering the first year of a new contract.

Gymrat said:

Sounds nice but why should he. Why would he? When limited WRs like the wonder twins Edelman/Amendola are being payed far above what they would ever be payed anywhere else. Andre Johnson should play for the minimum when them terribly limited WRs are being payed above their worth. I acknowledge he would need to restructure, but the minimum is asking him to much. Especially when wilfork just got 8mil a yr. Amendola 6\7 million a year and Edelman what was it 5/6 mil a year. Restructure yes maybe, league minimum he will never do and he shouldn't have to.

Is that the only way we get a wr. When he plays for free practically. Yet slots are being paid. Aging, declining Mankins is making $10 mil and won't take a pay cut. There was some truth to Talibs hints in his comments. They pay them mediocre guys but don't want to give any $$ to a real talented building block/game changer.

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Please stop relying on Felger for your salary cap information.

Wilfork's deal averages 8 million only if he makes all of his incentives. If he makes all of his incentives, then he is worth it. Are you complaining about paying a player what he is worth?

Amendola's deal maxes out at 6.2m. Edelman at 4.75m.

Please explain how you know that Mankins was asked to take a pay cut.

When I read that the Patriots "don't want to give any $$ to a real talented building block/game changer, I would like to introduce you to Brady, Gronk, Wilfork, and Randy Moss.

Brady6 said:

They have $1.8M in cap space; their starting QB is making less than $1M a season. Consider the average NFL QB makes north of $12M and that is minimal in my opinion anyway. That said you are a cap expert, recognized throughout this area by fans, media members and more, and I am a cap idiot so I could be wrong, it just seems like they should have more space considering most of their best players are on rookie deals or entering the first year of a new contract.

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Does not take a cap expert to follow the link provided and read that the Seahawks have $9,517,698 in cap space

Gymrat said:

His drafting for a good while was Horrid. Among the worst in the NFL if not the worst.

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So, results don't figure in your assessment? Considering he drafted near the bottom almost every year, what is your judgment based on?

Miguel said:

Please stop relying on Felger for your salary cap information.

Wilfork's deal averages 8 million only if he makes all of his incentives. If he makes all of his incentives, then he is worth it. Are you complaining about paying a player what he is worth?

Amendola's deal maxes out at 6.2m. Edelman at 4.75m.

Please explain how you know that Mankins was asked to take a pay cut.

When I read that the Patriots "don't want to give any $$ to a real talented building block/game changer, I would like to introduce you to Brady, Gronk, Wilfork, and Randy Moss.

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I heard that Revis guy is pretty good too.

Miguel said:

http://www.nflplayers.com/reports/RunPublicReport.aspx?report=top51

How do you define minimal?

Does every team have to lose players each season in order to make room for their draft picks?

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Of course, because any regular poster knows that all the can't miss draft picks that aren't All Pros are busts that must be cut to make room for the latest can't miss draft picks.

That's the secret of great drafting. Plus, you always have high draft picks that way.

I keep coming back to this thread, hoping that that content has improved since the initial stink bomb. Alas, my hopes have been dashed with each page. Time to put it out of its misery, IMO.

Gymrat said:

Elway couldn't win the big one then suddenly he had talent to help him out and won 2 to close out his career.

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Elway won because of an undrafted free agent at receiver and a 6th round draft pick at running back.

It's possible you could have come up with a more ridiculous example for spending and high draft picks, but i don't think so.